Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

I still think that until you tell him you love him and admit to your faults and wanting to change things he won't want to talk. Burying our heads isn't an uncommon trait in human beings, especially if he feels his outburst is indicative of him changing into a person he doesn't want to be and is fearful of that.

If he thinks you don't see his problem he won't see any reason to talk and he sounds like he's on the edge of his tolerance (or at least it will to those of us who don't believe he's abusive based on what we've read).

When you were on the edge if your tolerance you got a home help, what needs to change for him? You need to identify this and see if it's something acceptable or not.

Likewise if he doesn't want to talk you can't discuss the problems you have with him.

Lack of communication means there is no longer a partnership, whether you remain married it not.

Is the OP going to admit it if she for 7 years she has nagged and put him down excessively and unnecessarily*? Of course not. She has only given examples where she seems quite reasonable ot have objected to his actions. Let's admit that we can only know what she^ tells us and cannot know to what, if any extent it is biased, inaccurate by omission or whatever.

By that token we cannot assess to what extent either partner in this marriage has been emotionally abused or in turn an emotional abuser. I have kept that in mind in my posts and tried to offer suggestions for resolving this, that don't assume anything, just try positive strategies for improving the status quo for both parties.

Sorry, severe italics fail there. I should be wearing my glasses when I'm posting.

What can the GP do?

They can screen for PND and depression, offer CBT sessions to help cope with the feelings of being overwhelmed and manage your expectations of what's reasonable.

I think it's a good idea to see your GP. I know you probably won't but if you tell them your DH told you to shut the fuck up or he will punch you in the face, they will get a better picture of how to help you.

"I still think that until you tell him you love him and admit to your faults and wanting to change things he won't want to talk".

Joysmum, don't you think that is precisely what the OP's DH is holding out for? He is stonewalling her until she cracks and begs his forgiveness - for him threatening to punch her face in!

I think that appeasing someone who refuses to take any responsibility for his words or actions is extremely dangerous.

His refusal to communicate with her now is simply another form of bullying.
HE should be the one begging forgiveness - not her.

OP, I think you should say to him "unless you sit down and talk to me like a mature adult, there is no hope for this marriage" and mean it!

I nag about him making noise when the kids are asleep (they wake to a gnat's fart)..^

That's not nagging, btw. He knows that if he is loud he will disturb the children. But he does it anyway.

Everyone is different It might be because he fears what will happen if he talks. What will 'come out'. The repercussions, and how the OP will react to his words. Will she try to change if he wants her to or will she tell him he's in the wrong?

If he wants to be in a relationship he has to talk to his partner. If he doesn't want to talk to his partner he should consider being single.

And as for being abusive? Based on one unacceptable outburst and an equally unacceptable demonstration of jealousy years ago. 2 episodes in 7 years. Really?

It's not based on one incident though is it? It has become clear that these problems have been in the relationship for a long time.

Fairenuff there is not one example of where the kids were in danger because her H didn't follow her 'instructions'

Well, safety wise I was thinking of him feeding her food that he knows she is intolerant to. Wellbeing was more about taking the poorly child out in inadequate clothing, disturbing their sleep, etc. If these things happened once, fair enough. But to call it 'nagging' he must be doing this repeatedly if he needs so many 'reminders'.

I'm not buying it. No NT adult could genuinely struggle that much to remember these simple requests.

OP I agree it's a good idea to speak to your GP.

Alwaysalone - I am still appalled at some of the comments on here where posters either obviously have not read the thread, or are seeking to blame you and minimise your DPs actions.

Alwaysalone - Maybe think about ringing Women's Aid and talking to them? You do not have to make any decisions yet. They will not tell you what to do. But I do think it would help you to talk to someone who will be genuinely supportive and who will help you to look at all your options.

Thanks again for the posts. I will try and respond to some posts quickly..

I've only really noticed a change in the dynamics of our relationship in the last 3 years. I only nag with issues regarding the kids. Nothing H related I.e pick your socks up off the floor etc.. Prior to having kids I worked full-time and earned a very decent wage. We were deliriously happy. I saved a lot as I was self-employed so I have some savings. Clothes for the kids, and anything related to MYSELF (clothes, car insurance, treats for me etc), I pay. DH gives money for bills, food, help etc (pretty much everything else). Please note, I'm genuinely not trying to drip feed. It's just Im addressing them as they come up. H has a very specific hobby which he goes away 1 weekend very 4 months or so. He goes by himself (mainly cos his hobby makes me sick, literally!). He also goes to the gym every other day (usually before work). He does work hard, which's why I'm happy for him to do those things.

What can the GP do?

If she tells the GP her husband told her to shut the fuck up or he would punch her face in in front of the children the GP may well get social services involved.

That's what they can do.

I'm appalled at the apologists on this thread. A man threatens violence in front of his DCs and it becomes about whether or not the OP uses the 'help' appropriately and how stressed the DH is at work despite him not telling his wife that he is stressed so if we stop making stuff up with no basis to justify what happened we are still left with a man who snapped, who scared his DW, who is now refusing to talk about it.

And for all the PP saying 'well maybe he thought the OP was going to have a go at him so that's why he's not talking' - really? He has no internal compunction to say sorry for his behaviour and that's ok? All of you trying to minimise and normalise it, how often have you threatened to punch your DP in such a way that they were scared it would happen?

OP please speak to a counsellor or a friend in RL about this. Your DM (like some of the posters on this thread) is not impartial in her appraisal of your relationship. In fact sometimes our friends can also be invested in our lives following a certain path which is why I would suggest a counsellor. Relate offer email counselling which is just like typing on this thread except the advice you receive back is experienced, thought-provoking and generally the only agenda is to help you to see yourself and your situation clearly.

I have no idea whether your DH would punch you or not. I do know that sometimes the threat of violence is as effective as the act. Sometimes it's even more effective as it's much more difficult to get other people to take verbal abuse seriously rather than DV. (This thread being a prime example of it). One of the first points my counsellor made to me when I talked about my relationship was 'where was I?' You see it was all about DP - his wishes, his needs, his wants. This thread has fallen into that same trap - look at the number of posts trying to put forward your DP's possible pov. It's not actually about your DP and justifying or excusing his behaviour. It's about you. It's about how you feel. It's about what you need to be happy and secure. You've said you don't like who you've become so counselling would be the first step to change that.

Take care

Personally, I'd go for being conciliatory not confrontational as I believe that would give me the best chance in getting the outcome I want, i.e. a happier marriage for both parties, but I realise I'm very much in the minority.

It's not about being an apologist it's about not believing the OP's husband has suddenly morphed into a homicidal maniac.

I'm going to find my first thread where mners helped open my eyes

^The only apology you should make, is for having a go about DC's shoes, it could have been approached with a 'bugger, she's got no shoes, which one of us gets them'.
But his attitude, he can can just fuck off.
Sorry to sound aggressive, but he sounds like an ego-centric prick. I don't care how devoted, giving and how much of a provider he is; being a provider doesn't give you the right to never apologise, speak to your partner (who is supposed to be your equal) in a threatening manner and then sulk about it.
He needs to grow up.
Me, personally, i'd probably tell him to get out and go. I'd hate myself, and i'd be miserable, but i'd rather have some self respect than be disrespected by someone who probably doesn't see any other perspective than his own.^

This ^^

I am separating from someone who never apologised, who never talked about his feelings, who was always right, and who thought he had the right to call me names. It is not only soul destroying, it is marriage destroying.

OP, none of us are perfect and whether you are actually a "nag" or someone has convinced you that you are, at least you are owning your own behaviour. The same cannot be said for your husband. Until he does, the dynamic of your marriage will never be equal, you will always be on the back foot. Just because it's one outburst in 7 years, it's still his outburst and one he needs to acknowledge to enable you both to move on.

Alwaysalone - I am still appalled at some of the comments on here where posters either obviously have not read the thread, or are seeking to blame you and minimise your DPs actions.

I am not minimising anything and I have read the whole thread. Just because people may have a different perspective to yours doesn't mean that they are either. On fact lists of pp have given alternative views whilst also saying that what DH had done is very wrong.

Before you say I can't know what an abusive relationship is like then please have a look at my previous posts on this thread when you will see that I do know a heck of a lot about it and been through more than most.

As I have said previously no one knows what has gone in but the people involved. People starting to blame the OPs mother etc are assuming and don't know if it is fact or not. Just like we don't know the time that the OP uses to 'nag' the OP or the extent of it or if he basically gets 'nagged' for breathing too loud when the DC are asleep.

I do think that you should your DR and that you should both get counciling.

One thing that is very clear is that the way things are now isn't working for either of you.

I would never ever threaten to punch my DP. If somehow I did, I would be totally mortified and begging for forgiveness.

Your DP still hasn't apologised, in fact he is sulking. He doesn't think he has done anything wrong. That is a terrible situation to be in.

How do you know he doesn't think he has done anything wrong? They aren't talking.

In fact if you are going to go down that road every time I was hit by my ex the first thing he did was say sorry. Just because you say it straight away it doesn't automatically mean that you are.

Couple counselling is not recommended for women being abused by their male partners.
But places like Relate will counsel people alone.

I think your idea to leave it for a few days and then send him an email is a good one. If he doesn't read or respond to the email then you will know that there isn't much future in this relationship. Very sad to have to admit that, but you have major problems between you and you can't work through them without him.

I know. I didn't say together I said they both needed counciling

Earth - He has said to the OP he hasn't done anything wrong.

When did he say that? I didn't see the OP saying that anywhere.

Grunt no-one on here has said the OP's DH has turned into a homicidal maniac You're hyperbole is insulting and possibly damaging. This isn't just some discussion on the internet, it's the OP's life.

Follow your approach through:

Say OP apologises and is conciliatory. One of two things will happen:

1. If we ignore that her DH shouted, threatened violence and then doesn't seem to have the maturity to apologise and consider that OP's DH just snapped because of stress and is currently feeling awful. Then OP apologising to him means he can admit he was wrong even though nothing is stopping him from doing that just now is that your reasoning? They can move forward together, conflating anger over missing shoes with a threat to punch someone's face in.

2. Now let's say for balance that the opposite is true and the OP's DH is EA and threatened DV. OP takes a conciliatory approach. How does an EA DH view that? He views it as validation for his behaviour; he views it as tacit acceptance that the OP is there to absorb his bad moods and threats.
   The situation has just casually escalated.

Actually, this isn't an either/or situation. If we keep the focus on the OP (who lets not forget is the person here asking for support) then I don't think confrontation or conciliation is the best approach. I think the OP needs space to work out how she feels about her relationship, about the roles they have slipped into, and about the shift in their attitudes to each other. She doesn't need to take responsibility for getting her DH to talk to her; she doesn't have to work out a strategy to try to get him to engage. He's an adult. He'll talk about this when he wants to talk about it or not at all, the OP can't make him respond in her timescale or in her way. She can, however, take a view on an adult using the silent treatment.

Can I also say, in the past when we've had an argument (ironically about him not opening up to me and withholding emotions), I've waited for him to approach me to see how long it would take. I gave in myself after 3 days as he was never going to discuss it. This was prior to the kids. I don't know whether we would EVER talk about this now if I was to give him the silent treatment too, as I know he won't approach me.