Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Fair....So you also live in this household and witness the extent and the reason as for the nagging?

Sorry, what do you mean?

fairenuff, her own mother constantly says she puts her husband down. The OP admits it.

Perhaps it isn't the big bad man telling her she is a 'nag' and her believing it. Perhaps she actually does put him down a lot. The OP admits it, I trust that she knows her own behaviour.

I haven't said that he is a big bad man, I said that OP says he keeps feeding the child crisps which OP says will make the child ill. Why does he do that? And, more the the point, what do you think she should do when he does it, say nothing?

Notquite.... You are not the OP.

Your experience is not hers.

Stop projecting.

Thanks all for the very good advice, it is much appreciated. I'm thinking of leaving it for a day or so, then maybe sending him an email. He does respond better when he's not rushed so I think I'll bide my time. In my heart of hearts I'd like to think he doesn't want to split, but he's hard to read. And he will do things to prove a point.

But it is clear when OP gives examples, that she is not nagging. She is having to repeat some basic safety instructions for the wellbeing of her children

So you are there 24/7 for the past 7 years to identify that the OP is not nagging despite the fact she says she does?

Don't most people forget something when they go away? It was an over reaction in the first place, shoes can easily be picked up and were not worth getting stressed over in the first place and certainly not worth cancelling the break for.

I'd imagine the husband is regretting snapping and working through things in his own mind. He's likely weighing up if he wants to stay or walk whilst knowing that he will see little of his children if he does so as the man rarely gets custody. The OP knows if she leaves, she will still get to see her children pretty much every day.

Both made mistakes yet only the DH seems to be at fault. It won't solve anything unless both admit to their mistakes and change.

Sorry, but there is 'snapping' and then there is swearing and saying you'll punch someone's face in. I can't believe anyone would think the latter is OK, even if the DH works hard and 'plays with the children at the weekend' etc etc.

BTW, how many women get actively praised for playing with their children?

The OP is not a 'nag'. Nag is a sexist and misogynistic word almost exclusively applied to women by men (or other women, sadly) when what they really mean is 'having to be repeatedly told or asked about something that they should have either just done, or done after being asked once.'

The word 'shrill' is another one. A woman's voice raised in (maybe justifiable) anger or frustration is so far beyond the pale that it needs a special and very negative word. How many comparably negative words are there for a man's raised voice?

And as for 'Even the OP's mother says she nags him too much', what the fuck does that mean? Since when has one person's word been taken as gospel on here? Maybe the OP's mother had or has a partner who told her she was a nag and she's internalised it all? God knows MN is crawling with threads about women who huff at their daughters and DILs about making their poor menfolk do the washing up, look after their own children etc, when all they want is to come home from work to their dinner on the table and a quiet evening.

OP, I don't think you should LTB but I think you should stop listening to the pernicious 'advice' being given here.

So you are there 24/7 for the past 7 years to identify that the OP is not nagging despite the fact she says she does?

What are you talking about?

Totally agree with you OP.

Pour your heart out into the email by all means. You are hurt and rightly so, but you love him and he must love all of you to work so hard and do the best he can. He needs to know how you feel, but you need to listen to him too.

I sincerely hope this is just a hiccup and will ultimately strengthen your marriage.

I'm not saying you should LTB either OP, never have done. I am saying that you need to read up on emotional abuse and, if he won't talk to you about this, start to think about whether or not you want to stay in this unhappy relationship.

Ah, now if you asked my mother how I behaved towards DH she'd say that I was 'lazy' and expected him to do far too much around the house (ie slightly more than my dad did for her). And that my sister was a nag who spoke in an "appallingly disrespectful" manner to her ex-H.

In truth, Dsis's ex-H was an abusive, drug-taking manchild fuckwit who would repeatedly put his own needs above those of his infant children. Yet it was my sister who is characterised by my mother as a 'nag' because she only ever saw a snapshot of their lives where my DSis was 'going on' at ex-H.

And I do loads more in the house than DH does, it's just that both of our housekeeping standards are decidedly laxer than my mothers'....

So I am aghast that some posters, who seem to be pursuing an agenda of their own to deliberately make a woman who needs help and support feel shit about herself, are referencing her mother's words against her as the God-given truth.

Given the low self esteem and self-doubt the OP is expressing I'd say her dear mother had a great deal to do with putting it there in the first place.

All of you saying 'you don't know' - well, neither do you. What we do know is that the OP's H gives her the silent treatment, invents reasons to be jealous of her and threatened (in front of her DC) to punch her head in.

I'm not saying LTB, OP. I want to give you a big hug and tell you that it's not right for him to speak to you like that, and it's not right for him to then refuse to discuss it and not speak to you. It's certainly not right for you to be taking ALL the blame here. Even if you were the naggiest nag in existence (and it truly doesn't sound like you are, from what you've said), it doesn't justify what he said to you. DH and I have told each other to fuck off in the heat of a row before now (mainly me because I'm a sweary moo), but we have never, ever threatened violence. That it's shook you up so much is testament to how awful it actually is.

Please don't let the 'reasonable' voices wanting to give an 'opposing view' (wtf? This isn't a debate, this is this woman's life!!) minimise this.

to you and I hope you can make him see how unreasonable he's being in refusing to talk this out.

If this had been posted by the woman, the responses would have been a lot different. I can't imagine that a woman being the only earner doing twelve hour days and paying for help to do the ironing and to go to the park with would be told she was being unreasonable for snapping. Instead there would be cries of EA for the nagging of the SAHP not to mention "cock lodger" comments for not contributing and expecting staff as well.

Only the two of them can work through it or decide to call it a day. We only have the OPs version of events like always on MN and it would be interesting to hear the DHs views.

Daisy, I've never seen a single thread on MN about a woman working outside the home and then not contributing when at home too.

And I'll say again, 'snapping' is one thing but to tell someone to shut the fuck up and threaten to punch their face in, in front of children, is another, and to refer to it as 'snapping' is to minimise it.

Quote from OP "I do nag. I do blame him for the smallest thing. I nag about him making noise when the kids are asleep (they wake to a gnat's fart).. I dunno, I just dislike who I've become and I think he is too..."

7 years of that could be considered emotional abuse IMO and we haven't even heard what it's like from the DH's point of view. Since the OP is here for support, she is unlikely to risk losing support saying anything more than the quote above. Not calling her a liar, but even subconsciously a person will censor what they say in order to get the reaction they want when speaking to a 3rd party who weren't there to see for themselves. The DH mght say that she has nagged constantly (for 7 years) about trivia and doesn't let it drop, for example. He might not, but the point is, we don't know, so calling him an emotional abuser for not wanting to discuss the matter, which might, to him, mean listening to her telling him off for all his shortcomings yet again is not fair.

The man was obviously looking forward to the only weekend away in a whole year too. It's sad and the LTB posts are not going to help make it less sad for the family's future.

I have read the full thread OP. DH is an exploder - usually when he is stressed at work or about to get ill or have a migraine. A car full of kids, holidays, forgotten shoes and me trying to blame him for something could well set him off. In our case he explodes,rants a bit, remembers little of the outburst and is then fine. I have usually a few choice words to say but I am the overanalyser, the huffer, but only for an hour or two. I'm sure we've threatened divorce more than a few times in the heat of the argument over the last 20 years. But then we make up, both apologise- it might take a few hours but I couldn't bear not putting it behind us.
Him not talking about it is worse than what he said as far as I'm concerned. It's a sort of emotional abuse.

daisy, I don't expect staff. I had really awful pnd with eldest dd. We can't rely on our family to help as his parents are in their 80's and my mum has a very bad heart condition. Dd has 11 months when we found out we were expecting dd2 (not planned). The thought filled me with dread. Dd2 was 9 months old when we got full-time help. Please, this isn't about the help. It's about how I salvage my marriage.

DaisyFlowerChain Precisely. In fact I said much the same myself upthread, only not so well (I'm prone to rambling)

The only apology you should make, is for having a go about DC's shoes, it could have been approached with a 'bugger, she's got no shoes, which one of us gets them'.
But his attitude, he can can just fuck off.
Sorry to sound aggressive, but he sounds like an ego-centric prick. I don't care how devoted, giving and how much of a provider he is; being a provider doesn't give you the right to never apologise, speak to your partner (who is supposed to be your equal) in a threatening manner and then sulk about it.
He needs to grow up.
Me, personally, i'd probably tell him to get out and go. I'd hate myself, and i'd be miserable, but i'd rather have some self respect than be disrespected by someone who probably doesn't see any other perspective than his own.

He had no choice but to be the earner as the OP didn't want to work or let him be the SAHP. If anything, she's selfish for not giving him the same choices she expects herself.

It's not true that OP didn't 'let him' be the SAHP, Daisy, according to OP it was a joint decision.

The problem is with his job that if he leaves and becomes sahd, it will be very difficult for him to get back into that career. My job, though very well paid, earns less than his so we would really struggle financially.

I think the help is a big part of the salvage though. Your husband is having to shoulder the twelve hour days, the paying of the staff and only seeing his children at weekends when he made it quite clear at the start he didn't want to be main earner. It sounds like you are not willing to compromise on that at all. Lots of people have no parental help and work at the same time.

He needs to talk and tell you how he feels but you can't pin it all on him, you need to be willing to change and help too.

Coming late, but, sadly, I don't see a good outcome out of this.

Why are you worried that he might want to leave?

My exH also had his good points. He did help reasonably at home, and also seemed gentle at first. But he did bottle things up and he was not thoughtful and he also exploded suddenly and didn't want to talk about things, even when I approached it in the best possible way. A letter was torn to pieces and he didn't even read it. He would also only do things his own way and when he wanted.

He didn't threaten me verbally to punch me, but he occasionally threatened with separation, and he once help a closed fist ready to punch me. Not long after that he was actually physically violent. Not a punch, but I left before it could get worse. I left when he threatened to kill me and DS, as well as himself.

He was capable of mushy words for special occasions, but he was crap at dealing with emotions day to day.

The thing is that his words now will worry you. Are you sure he's not capable of punching you?
You know there are no warnings.
One day he will punch you with no warning, or worse.
Can you relax around him and be yourself?

Punching you came to his head, he verbalised it. It's only a tiny step before he does it.

And, btw, what you describe is not nagging. It's not nagging when the other person doesn't act in a responsible and caring manner.

TBH, yes, I think you should LTB. I am worried for you if you don't.

"Him not talking about it is worse than what he said as far as I'm concerned. It's a sort of emotional abuse."

Everyone is different It might be because he fears what will happen if he talks. What will 'come out'. The repercussions, and how the OP will react to his words. Will she try to change if he wants her to or will she tell him he's in the wrong? The dynamic of each marriage is different too. People are complicated and not feeling able to talk is not necessarily the same as being an emotional abuser.

Fair, that doesn't sound like a joint decision. The OP says he wanted to be the SAHP but implies her standard of living would have to change. That's not him agreeing but being given no choice, he was obviously willing to make the changes.

You can't salvage your marriage on your own, btw.

He has to actively participate on it, and one way is to communicate effectively with you and be able to compromise.
He needs to acknowledge what he just did and work on it.

And, for your safety, if you are going to work on it together, I do think that you should do it while separated.

"Punching you came to his head, he verbalised it. It's only a tiny step before he does it."

You don't and can't know that.

daisy, I have repeatedly repeatedly said that I want to change and I don't want to nag him. The incident on Friday has brought it home to me how serious this is. I am going to make an appointment with GP first thing and discuss it. I just wish he was open for discussion.