Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Placid, does it ever occur to you that the reason those posters with actual experience of domestic abuse are seeing it in this OP is that they recognise some of the disturbing traits their own husbands had?
I was married to an emotionally and physically abusive man. With in 3 years everything was my fault too. He was irrationally jealous too. He couldn't talk about about basic emotions. He used his higher earning status to keep me in my place. I became totally emotionally dependant on him, ever after he broke my rib by punching me. I know many people in nirmal,flawed, but essentially healthy relationships, and I have no agenda to split anyone up because my relationship failed (or in other words I escaped). I just recognise too many worrying things in this posters story.

This husband works nearly 12 hours a day (inc travelling I presume) 5 days a week. He supported the OP through PND and employs someone to help her in the house and with the children to reduce her stress levels. He plays with the children at the weekend. He has never been verbally abusive or threatened the OP in 7 years and the OP admits to 'nagging' which is a form of verbal abuse.

The family are cooped up in a car with children playing up in the back seat, they haven't had a proper holiday all year and are heading for a weekend away and the OP is nagging away about him forgetting a pair of shoes!!! A receipe for disaster ...... and the H blows his top and has an uncharacteristic, unacceptable, outburst!

Only on MN would he be demonised and the OP told to LTB

As far as we know, in his mind it's the OP who isn't speaking to him! Someone has got to make the first move. The atmosphere in that house must be terrible. To call a man who has had one outburst in 7 years a violent abuser is so OTT, especially as he hasn't laid a finger on her.

wildbill, again I thank you for your post. It is hard to articulate and explain the dynamics of our entire relationship in a series of posts. I am trying my best. Nowhere have I demonised h. I have repeatedly said he is a good man and I love him. His outburst was out of the blue. I have also repeatedly acknowledged that I am also at fault and I endeavour to change.

Beautifully and succinctly summed up 1sneezecakesmum Even the OP's mother says she nags him too much.

By the way, he is not responding when I speak to him. The only thing he said is 'I don't want to talk about it'.

Yes but have you spoken to him, OP? How do you know he won't speak to you if you won't speak to him?

He's just left to go to the gym.

Sorry cross-post OP. I bloody knew that would happen.

grunt, I went into the kitchen and asked whether he wanted to talk about what happened on Friday. He said 'no, I don't want to talk about it'. No more and no less. He has now gone to the gym, as I explained above.

Sorry, x-post with you :)

You've not demonised him OP but the LTB crew have!

You've said you want your marriage to continue but he has clammed up and won't talk. Do you think it is shame at his behaviour or is it because he wants an excuse to leave?

That's a good summary 1sneeze. Poor bloke, demonised for snapping once.

Get rid of the help and use the money for a decent break. It's a luxury for you but at the expense of your DH's own stress levels.

Ifnot, I don't think the DH is using his earner status against the OP. He had no choice but to be the earner as the OP didn't want to work or let him be the SAHP. If anything, she's selfish for not giving him the same choices she expects herself.

I think the OPs own mother recognising the nagging is far too much says a lot. It can be hard to point out flaws to a grown child for fear of confrontation yet she has but it's been downplayed and made out to be the DHs fault.

It's going to be a harsh reality if the split goes ahead. The OP will have to juggle working as well as housework.

Exactly 1sneeze.

Of course what he said was disgusting and aggressive.

Perspective; some need it.

OP's actions did not warrant his reply, but I can see why it happens. OP and her mother admit to her constantly putting him down and moaning at him. That is very damaging to a marriage as well. They BOTH have a part to blame in this, she is not to blame for the words he said, but neither of them are communicating or acting well in this marriage, so lets not put the husband in an awful light, this marriage is made up of two people who have both been acting in ways that are damaging.

They were taking a weekend away and she moaned (by her own admission) over shoes. I would be pretty pissed off if my husband moaned and moaned at me because I forgot something when we were taking our one weekend away. I would not have threatened violence but I would have likely told him to shut the fuck up and get off my case. That behaviour is damaging, so I don't think either of them come out too well.

I too have experience of abusive relationships. So far, this isn't one, not based on the one side little information we have anyway.

And come on? he got jealous once? threatened divorce once? not ok actions, but again in 7 years I don't see this as LTB worthy. I have no doubt that the OP herself has said or done things that some could see as warning signs too.

In fact, pull any marriage apart and you could paint it in a bad light due to things that happened years ago.

The hysteria here is worrying.

OP has morphed throughout this thread from admitting she is a shrill nag which she says her own mother confirms to poor little me victim.

What you need to understand is that she is being told she is a 'nag'. She has come to believe this, truly believe this, and wants to try and change.

The common understanding of the word nag, is going on and on about something. Such as asking someone to do something and then repeating the request over and over until it is done.

But it is clear when OP gives examples, that she is not nagging. She is having to repeat some basic safety instructions for the wellbeing of her children.

Has no-one asked themselves why the dh keeps giving the child crisps which OP says are bad for her? If he simply forgets, then it is sensible for OP to remind him. Is lactose intolerance something a father just 'forgets' though? Subtle isn't it.

*The only thing he said is 'I don't want to talk about it'.

Answer: Well I damned well do. We cannot continue like this.

Have you tried challenging his brick wall response? I find my DH needs a good push to get past his automatic responses. It used to make him angry, now he listens and may even have a discussion.

It may be worth the argument this may provoke just to get to some common understanding of where you both really do stand. But I am another who thinks his punch in the face comment may have been born out of utter frustration rather than real intent.

As has been said, only you can judge him and his likely response.

I don't think any harm could come from telling him what you posted upthread, i.e. "that I love him. That I'm sorry if I nag too much. That he and the girls are my entire world. That I don't want to end up like his parents, where we exist for 20 years with no verbal or physical contact. I don't want our DC to think that's the norm."

Asking him if he wants to talk about what happened could sound like an invitation to talk about who was to blame, e.g. "If you hadn't forgotten the shoes, none of this would have happened" and I don't blame him for not wanting to go there.

He must be miserable, as are you. He hasn't hit you, what he said shocked you because you have never known him to lash out verbally at you like that. Some posters seem to think that you're in mortal danger and need to LTB, and I don't believe that to be true.

You want it to work, you say he is a good man and this is the first time in 7 years he has ever spoke to you this way.

Please do not let the LTB people convince you that you are in an abusive marriage if you don't feel that way yourself.

I have no doubt that if this behaviour was regular you would know it was abusive. I am giving you some credit that you know your husband best and know that he has been a good husband for 7 years and this incident was a one off.

People here are quick to jump to the worst case scenario. Trust your own instincts OP.

He may not be talking because he is ashamed, it doesn't make it ok. Put some space between you if needed for a while, or talk in the evening when the children are in bed and see if you can get anywhere.

If he doesn't open up eventually than you know he probably wants out.

Shut the fuck up or I'll punch your face in.

Nope. Still can't justify that, no matter how clearly appalling Always Alone is (and she does come across as a right old harridan doesn't she. .)
Maybe her self esteem started out low because of her mother putting her down, and that's why she married suh a know? Just a thought.

Fair....So you also live in this household and witness the extent and the reason as for the nagging?

Most people who nag know they do it and know it is unreasonable behaviour and the OP accepts this.

Lactose in crisps is minimal and the DD has obviously not had a reaction that would stop the H doing it. Maybe his DD loves these crisps and wraps daddy round her finger to get what she wants. If her were feeding her peanut butter and she had a peanut allergy that would be different, but that is what you are making it sound like. Maybe dad is a softy when it comes to his DDs?

OP. Write him a carefully worded letter over the weekend and give it to him next week. Leave him alone for a few days and let him come to terms with his outburst and hopefully he will be more receptive to discussing the problems he sees in the marriage.

Such a knob! Bloody tablet won't let me use rude words!

fairenuff, her own mother constantly says she puts her husband down. The OP admits it.

Perhaps it isn't the big bad man telling her she is a 'nag' and her believing it. Perhaps she actually does put him down a lot. The OP admits it, I trust that she knows her own behaviour.

Moaning and moaning about forgetting shoes was not needed. That isn't moaning because her husband because she has to repeat safety instructions, he forgot shoes.

You are determined to put him down and tell the OP that her husband is an arsehole without knowing anything at all really.

That is not fair on the OP.

OP I would be demanding tonight that he talks to me if he wants the marriage to work. I would be telling him he doesn't have an option, he talks or you take a break or something.

No one is saying his words were justified. Just that they aren't LTB worthy when the OP herself says she has been happily married for 7 years.

'Especially as he hasn't laid a finger on her'

Some of you are making me so angry! My ex never laid a finger on me, yet he is undoubtedly exceptionally abusive, evidenced by CAMHS, CAFCASS, the police and his DV program.

'Nagging' as verbal abuse. It's possible. Yet it's by OP's own admission, and she is running rings around herself trying to take the blame and be 'fair' to her DH, not the actions of someone who is enjoying power, which is what nagging as verbal abuse would be. 'Nagging' is also a term used to control someone who is desperately trying to get their partner to engage safely, respectfully and decently with themselves and family life, in the face of stonewalling and threats to leave/punch her face in if she doesn't stfu. It's perfectly possible to do all those 'lovely things', go to work, employ help, 'play with the kids' (another classic, isn't he their parent too?) and never lay a finger on her and STILL be a controlling, dominating, disrespectful and deeply abusive person.

OP sounds deep in FOG, and is asking serious questions, perhaps for the first time. Please give her consideration and space.

And those saying have you spoken to him, maybe he thinks you're ignoring him? That implies a level playing field where fear is not present. If I were the Op I would be upstairs doing laundry, feeling sick and stressed and isolated and feeling if my head were going to explode whilst I tried desperately to work out what to do.

I'm seeing you desperately trying to justify how bad you are too OP, in response to some posters. You don't need to. It doesn't really matter how you spoke about the shoes. His response was disproportionate and unacceptable and his refusal to show remorse or to discuss it to ease the tension in the house for your DC speaks volumes.

Please, keep rambling.

Unbelievable the number of assumptions going on here with no evidence to back them up. Now it's the mother who caused all the OPs problems!

Maybe it's juuuust possible the OP is an adult who can recognise her own limitations and decides not to blame everyone from her mother to her H for the problems she is having?

They are adults. They make mistakes. They should learn from them and have a healthier relationship. Not everyone is a victim.