Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

What exactly do you pay the staff member for if you claim to do it all anyway? Genuine question, from his point of view he's paying a lot of money to somebody you imply does nothing.

If you split, it's likely you'll need to work more than the two days you plan in the future so start looking for jobs if you think a split is imminent.

He is the breadwinner and you have already stated he had no choice in the he matter as you weren't willing to let him be the SAHP as he wanted to be. The resentment of being forced into that will have paid a price so if you do counselling it needs to be dealt with and a compromise reached.

He needs to state whether or not he wants to try and save the relationship though as it's clear you do but you both have to want to and both be willing to put in effort and compromise to change the things that annoy or stress you both.

Actually doing absolutely everything is not the usually SAHM set up. Most partners divide chores between them, including all wakings - do you get a lay in ever?

The fact he is still not speaking to you speaks volumes. He clearly doesn't think he has done anything wrong.

You sound stronger today op. I suspect in time you may see that your nagging may have been just asking him to do things, which we are allowed to do.

If he is going to continue to be a child the least he could do is give you some space.

OP why do you have a mothers help if she does nothing and you are doing everything in the house plus the children? If the children prefer you get a cleaner instead. Why on earth are you exhausting yourself while you MH is clearly doing nothing?

As you are not prepared to write a letter to him or suggest you spend a weekend discussing your marriage, ask him to leave the family home until he is prepared to discuss things with you. Tell him his presence is a threat to you and your children.

It may be that he wants to leave anyway and this is his way of provoking the split. If that's the case so be it. He will pay for the divorce and you can both get on with your lives. You will probably need to get a job and may have a reduction in your lifestyle but if you are unhappy enough to find nagging a release then you may be happier on your own.

Not so much LTB but ask the B to leave.

I'm also wondering what does the full time staff member do if you are doing everything in the house while he is working? If he is paying someone full time to do housework I can understand that he doesn't want to do it himself. I wouldn't want to do it either and would wonder where my money was going...

What exactly do you pay the staff member for if you claim to do it all anyway? Genuine question, from his point of view he's paying a lot of money to somebody you imply does nothing.

This - why do you continue to 'do it all' ? is no-one up to your exacting standards?

I don't get it......

It's curious isn't it that at least some of those advocating LTB (in some forms or other) refer to their ex's. Bluebell and Notquite being the latest.

They do that because they have specific relevant experience to offer. Everyone on mn does that. You, yourself tired to make a link between 'punch you in the face' and 'skin you alive'.

I am beginning to think there is a vocal group on MN who are clearly convinced that LTB is the ONLY answer partly (mainly??) because their own relationships are over.

Actually, there are many, many posters in good relationships who try to help by their experiences of loving relationships. There are good, kind, respectful men out there and telling your partner you will punch her in the face is not normal, not acceptable and not defendable.

If everyone giving advice didn't know that, they would be more likely to say, ah stay with him, he hasn't hit you yet.

OP there is nothing wrong with expressing your needs and feelings, nothing wrong with asking your husband to do or not do something, there is nothing wrong with 'nagging'. In fact this level of communication is essential for a relationship to succeed. Please stop blaming yourself.

Oh and for what it's worth I have a long and very happy marriage and think the OP's husband's behaviour is appalling.

Only read the first page, but a sudden out of character outburst sounds like some sort of breakdown to me.
I would be deeply worried about what had driven my DH to act in a way (which is clearly more than the shoe thing) if he has been as your OP suggests an exemplorary husband for 7 years with scarcely a cross word.I think this in itself is worrying.it is healthy for a couple to have arguments to release tensions that build up from time to time.Is he really placid and easy going or has he just bottled up all his frustrations for so long that it is finally exploded.
Everybody has a breaking point

U2 - very well put.

Always - I know you've said DH still isn't speaking to you. May I ask have you tried speaking to him? Even stuff like, "Do you want cornflakes or branflakes?" or are you maintaining the silence?

I don't think you're rambling in what you're posting. It sounds as though both of you are doing too much: him at work, you at home. One weekend away a year is not sufficient 'down time' by a long chalk.

I'd be interested to hear what workload/tasks you allocate to the home help, because it sounds as though you're still doing everything around the house.

As things stand, he can't continue sulking around the house and avoiding you - the children will be quite aware of what's going on. He needs to either talk to you, or give you some space until he's ready to talk.

my Mum occasionally threatened to skin me alive. If I had reacted to that "threat of physical violence" it would have meant the end of one of the most loving families

But placid you were a child and had no choice, you had to put up with this whether you liked it or not. And, as has already been pointed out, you did not really think your mum would do that. OP, on the other hand, thought he would.

They are totally different. The 'message' that you are trying to put across is that your mum wasn't an abuser, so neither is this man. It doesn't work like that. You have to look at OP's individual circumstances and how she feels about it.

I do think that, if he would start being nice to her, OP would forget about it and carry on like this until the next time.

This is classic abuse. It's a nasty/nice cycle. It's escalated. It's in front of the children. It's the frog in boiling water, etc. Anyone who knows anything about abuse can see the warning flags. That is all.

A non-abusive man would have admitted his part in this and be trying to talk to her about what they can do to make their relationship better.

What OP wants to do about that is up to her. Not everyone is saying LTB but lots of posters are saying be careful, you don't have to settle for this, get some advice, speak to womens aid, read up about stonewalling, read about abuse, get legal advice and, yes, leave if you want to.

Above all, protect your children.

OP you said you were frightened when he threatened you. I think that was enough reason to want to come home. I also think it changes the dynamic from Placid's example of her DM's empty threats, and it changes the dynamic in your relationship.

My ex-DP made a similar threat to me. I packed a bag and left that night with my DC. However I went back. I later realised that our dynamic had changed and that I hadn't dealt with it. Being threatened by someone you think might carry out their threat leaves an undercurrent of uncertainty and violence that silently impacts future conversations and discussions.

If he is still refusing to talk then I'd write him a letter and explain that he frightened you, and see how he responds to that.

I'd also make an appointment with Relate for yourself to disentangle how you feel about everything.

Considering his parents have stonewalled each other for years I do think you need to act. I would just go up to him and tell I am not prepared to be treated this way and until he can behave like an adult then he is to leave the family home. You really do not need to put up with this shit.

We have no way of knowing that one outburst will lead to actual violence and only OP knows if there have been other warning signs that makes her feel like that may happen, and if there is then she obviously need to leave.

OP said that she never believed he would threaten to punch her in the face. There were no warning signs that made her feel that would happen. But it happened anyway.

All the 'warning signs' are the red flags - the silent treatment, not listening to her, ignoring her requests, etc. All the tiny, subtle interactions are the warning signs and OP didn't see any of them.

Instead she tried to look to herself, what she was doing wrong. Should she speak out and rock the boat or keep quiet for the sake of peace. She was already tiptoeing around him but she just didn't know it.

Even now I think there is a strong possibility that OP will leave this threat unchallenged for the sake of peace.

Anger is not the only warning sign, there are many, many ways to control another person and fear is one of them. Fear of violence, fear of threat of violence, fear of aggression and even fear of being abandoned.

It's too black and white to say a non abusive man would be apologising and talking.

What if he is having some kind of breakdown? We know sod all about him. It might be unlikely but perhaps he is. We can't say he is abusive based on this alone. I would probably worry more about what was going on with him to cause my husband of 8 years who is usually placid to have an outburst like that.

It is likely that it could be the beginning of the end, he could be becoming abusive, and it could be just as likely that he is having a breakdown, or something is going on to make him act completely out of character. Maybe his lack of talking isn't him being mean, maybe he has slipped into a deep depression. Happened to my best friend just like that.

We could speculate all day, none of us know. So lets not try to convince OP one way or the other why her husband did what he did.

The OP needs to get to the bottom of it, they both do. But before I would be thinking of LTB I would be making sure nothing else was going on first.

I say this as someone who has been happily married for 8 years whose husband has never spoke to me like that, but if he ever did it would be so out of character I would be worried about him. Very hurt, but also worried about what the fuck was going on for him to have a character transplant.

So many of the posts here are so black and white based on OP's few posts. We know nothing about this man, it is just as likely that he is having a breakdown as it is he is just an arsehole, or maybe he simply had an outburst which was disgusting to never be repeated again.

I am not the kind of person who usually makes excuses for bad behaviour. I ended a bad marriage myself and watched my mum put up with tons of shit and won't do the same myself, but I see no reason why this one outburst in 7 years make some think he is abusive or will end up hitting her. Life is messier than that, humans are messier than that.

Lets not try to convince her that her husband is abusive who is likely to hit her next without knowing anything else about him. You don't know that. This is someone's life and marriage here.

But he does have previous for this. Announcing he wanted a divorce out of nowhere. Accusing op of flirting which she had to apologise for even though it was absolute rubbish.

I dunno OP has morphed throughout this thread from admitting she is a shrill nag which she says her own mother confirms to poor little me victim. In the Original Post it's stated H decided to drive home however later on she reveals it was her decision to end the holiday. I don't think we are getting the full picture by far........Bits are being downplayed to show her in a better light and H is slowly being demonised by her.

When someone is going on and on and on and on the only way to shut them up is to stop responding. I suspect what OP sees as communication is the demand that H sees and does everything her way. The fact that they have a full time home help but OP says she does all the housework etc suggests someone with a very controlling personality.

This row is the straw that broke the camels back I think someone is just starting to realise she has pushed H so far this time he snapped and there is no coming back.

We've all read about them but just this week in my city there is a case where a couple married for decades retired and living in sheltered housing, the 'meek mild mannered gentle polite' husband snapped and strangled his wife. The deceased wife has politely been described as 'very demanding' by other residents when interviewed.

An extreme example but everyone has their breaking point.

The help does the ironing, and some general tidying after the kids. She will drop my eldest off at Montessori in the mornings. We will all then go to the park/play centre/shopping/friend's house together in the afternoon. She will feed one child at lunch whilst I do the other. She will entertain the kids whilst I cook. She's just someone who is around the house, not so much a nanny or housekeeper. She is 62, and when we employed her I said I just wanted someone who would be on hand to help me, not to take over the running of the house. The arrangement works well for us. Though it is a financial obligation, h and I mutually decided we would put off any expensive holidays for a few years so we could have a harmonious household. Well, supposedly harmonious...

My husband goes to work 9-8. I have dinner ready for him when he gets home and we eat. As far as the kids, at the weekend he will help with everything. He doesn't do any domestic chores at the weekend, cos really there isn't anything to do. He will do something if I ask him to though.

Yes, U2 he could be having a breakdown. But let's not let that reduce the impact his behaviour is having on OP.

They are two separate issues. 1) Breadown 2) Threat of violence.

They do not cancel each other out. That is minimising.

It's interesting how many posters keep trying to explain, justify or excuse his behaviour by giving him the benefit of the doubt. That is exactly what OP has been doing all these years.

It's a normal reaction from non abusive people isn't it? Why did he do that, there must be a rational explanation for it. We could speculate until the cows come home about what made him to do it but he obviously needs professional counselling.

OP's problem is that he won't talk. He won't talk to her about his behaviour (not just now, but ever) and he won't talk to a counsellor. Where does that leave her? Her situation is never going to change.

OP still hasn't answered the umpteen posters asking whether she has spoken to him or whether they're giving each other the silent treatment. That surely makes a difference. She hasn't said that she's written what she wants to say to him in a note either.

In the Original Post it's stated H decided to drive home however later on she reveals it was her decision to end the holiday.

Actually, she didn't say it was his decision to drive home, she just said he drove them. I think you must have assumed she meant he turned the car around and we home of his own accord.

When someone is going on and on and on and on the only way to shut them up is to stop responding

Really? What about listening to what they are actually saying, thinkiing about it and then responding? You know, having a mature discussion?

just this week in my city there is a case where a couple married for decades retired and living in sheltered housing, the 'meek mild mannered gentle polite' husband snapped and strangled his wife

And you don't think this is abusive?

WildBill This is what happens!! The man is often considered by others as gentle, wouldn't hurt a fly. You have no idea about hidden domestic violence can be. Shockingly ignorant example there.

OP I would get rid of the home help and get a cleaner in instead.

'punch my face in'
is this really a threat of violence or a figure of speech.Lots of times MNers write things like this in posts