Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Good post NotQuite.

Maybe write him a note? And leave it by the next meal he ignores and then eats quietly later.

"If you want to leave, I need to know.
If you want to stay, you need to talk to me."

^Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. ....... When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

... It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. ...Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce.^

I don't think this man is quite the man you think you know. It sounds like there's the exterior of placidity and kindness and then a bubbling cauldron underneath.

Non abusive people don't threaten to punch someone's face in when they're frustrated, telling someone to stfu is understandable in the heat of the moment, threatening violence is not justified or normal.

It is disturbing because it means that underneath his 'nice' demeanor he's thinking about committing violence toward you, who knows what else is going on inside his head. He has crossed a boundary by threatening violence, he's thinking about it, thinks he's justified in making those threats and with that mentality it's likely that he will escalate given the opportunity.

I would never imagined my ex as being abusive even when he was. To the world he is lovely, charming, gentle, patient, a good father and for several years I believed all those things too. Everything was my fault, even though in reality, it wasn't. He was wonderful, in reality he was awful.

Your post struck me because he threatened to punch you in the face if you didn't stfu, that's exactly what my ex said to me when I asked him not to give dd something that would make her sick. Within two months I left him for punching my face in. The second time.

He's telling you who he really is, what he thinks of you and what he thinks of doing to you, I'd suggest you believe him. And run. Before he shows you.

It's curious isn't it that at least some of those advocating LTB (in some forms or other) refer to their ex's. Bluebell and Notquite being the latest.

I wonder.. just wonder if this is a pattern??

While I do not for one instant say his behaviour is acceptable, I do wish you every success in your marriage. I hope your darling daughters get to grow up with the loving companionship of both Mum AND Dad - which is what you believe you want too.

I am beginning to think there is a vocal group on MN who are clearly convinced that LTB is the ONLY answer partly (mainly??) because their own relationships are over.

As someone whose parents were married for 44 years and someone who has been married for 17 years... I can tell you every marriage goes through sometimes terrible problems. We can't control all the events but we can control our response to those events.

I send you all my love for a night if restful sleep and my best wishes that you're both ready to resolve things tomorrow.

Placid the OP has been ready to resolve things for some time. She asked how they could move on, opening a conversation. Unfortunately as things stand her DH doesn't do conversation. At least he hasn't spoken much since threatening to 'punch her face in'. He is at risk of ending his marriage to avoid discussing his actual thoughts. I'm not saying LTB but the OP can't control her DH's response to their problems, which has been to keep his feelings private or suggest divorce/violence.

Temporary
While I would never suggest his behaviour is in anyway acceptable I AM suggesting that over the course of time, it could be forgiven. It was several hours ago but I mentioned how my Mum occasionally threatened to skin me alive. If I had reacted to that "threat of physical violence" it would have meant the end of one of the most loving families. Certainly I could have justified it to others... "imagine... your own mum threatening you with a violent and agonising death" .. But rather than letting thankfully rare and unacceptable events define me and my future I was willing to move on

What are you suggesting placid, some sort of conspiracy to get women to leave their husbands? How ridiculous, my parents have been married over forty years, my grandparents on both sides were married very happily for many decades until they died, they were happy in non violent relationships with normal people. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Bizarre.

Life isn't a competition to see who can stay together the longest and no woman should be trapped in a relationship with an aggressive, non communicative man who ignores her, puts her down and threatens her with violence. It is not normal for anyone to threaten their partner with violence and acting out on that threat is the next step. Why shouldn't that be pointed out?

LTB is perfectly good advice when dealing with aggressive partners because there is nothing you can do to change their violent thoughts and impulses. It's not comparable with advising someone to leave because their partner stinks up the bed with farts, domestic abuse is not inconsequential, it is destructive to everybody within that environment and potentially very dangerous to the person on the receiving end of violent rage.

As for comparing an obviously non serious threat from your mother with a genuine threat of violence, how offensive.

I don't find the phrase 'skin you alive' quite as bad - as horrific as it is if you stop to think - because it was a bit of a figure of speech I may have been threatened with that too at times.

I agree totally that we don't the full picture and really hope that OP and her DH can work on their marriage. That way, depending on the wider context which we don't know, it may work out. Or if it doesn't OP will know they really tried their best. I just wonder how the DH can get on board with that effort as he seems not to be able to try and resolve things, just to ignore them and when that becomes too much, to give up. I really do hope he can tackle that with the OP and in counselling. I am all for working hard on relationships and getting through the tough times, really. I just don't think the effort can be totally one-sided. From what the OP has said her DH could be nasty, and/or someone who is very damaged by his background but has the potential to be much better for her than he is now.

Sorry to put you in the third person there OP, I hope you are ok and that your DH will wake up in a frame of mind to respond better to you tomorrow.

Bluebell I am sure there are exceptions but I just happened to notice a pattern that those who most quickly play the LTB card also happen to reveal that their own relationships are over.

This OP absolutely wants her own marriage to survive.

Also - you never met my mum and you never met this OP. How come you are so absolutely confident that one threat of physical violence was serious and the other was definitely not?

In the heat of the moment, I am guessing both my mum and OP 's husband might have suggested they meant it. But after a period of healing and joint forgiveness I hypothesise they would both have been mortified that those words ever passed their lips.

Have you never said anything that you now regret?

Please let's not take this too far off track by speculating. Placid to be fair you are accusing others of seeing this in the light of their own experience, but that is exactly what you are doing. We want this to be a place the OP can come and talk that is focused on her. OP I think whatever happens you need that outside perspective.

Bluebell on what grounds can you be so sure that "Acting out that threat" will be the next step. I agree it might be - god forbid. But you and others seem to have crystal balls that are far more definitive than mine.

I would like to think this is a young couple who fell in love at got married not so long ago, who now have two beautiful babies (with all the blessings and challenges that entails), who just happened to have a really shitty day and said some awful things.

Always, I want you to know that you're not alone. You have lots of people wishing you all the very best and hope things get a little bit better today.

It could be that he sees arguments or disagreements as the end of a relationship and so hasn't wanted to 'talk' ever because it's a mistaken action of him wanting to remain married.

You admit yourself that you're always on his case and blaming him. After years of that it's a wonder he lasted as long as he did.

When you wanted to leave the hotel alone, he wanted to come back too, maybe that's another way to stay together too.

Truth is, none of us know his reasons for his outburst but we can all agree that threatening violence is very wrong.

You'll have people on here with different experiences of life all coming to different conclusions based on our own lives. We don't know you or you DH and can't know the dynamic between you both or what you are like as individuals.

For my part, I've had a few problems in the past but still essentially believe that good people do bad things, doesn't make them a bad person.

One this I do know is that you'll only get a better idea of this by talking and if you divorce without talking you'll never know.

For me, I'd go down the opening line of 'I love you but we both aren't happy. I'd like to try to fix things, do you?'

Resolving issues comes from listening, acknowledging (and I personally like DH to repeat my concerns back to me so I know he really has understood, you might want to do the same) and then planning a way forwards.

Of course he may not think you both can fix something that he sees as being broken for so long. You won't know until you talk.

I am also hoping that you had a good nights sleep Always, and that you have woken up with a little clarity.

I read all your posts yesterday. I think a lot of people, on both sides, are using their own experiences to influence what they post. I really hope not to.

Do you know what really worries me? Your DH's subsequent reaction to his outburst. His behaviour yesterday, rather than the event of the previous day itself (bad as it was). His unwillingness to talk/compromise/engage. If both sides are not willing to figure out how to move forward in an equal and mature manner, than how can this move forward?

You just seem like a thoroughly nice person, and lovely mum, with perhaps a some self esteem issues and I really hope you can figure this through and be strong (which I think you can), and things have to change clearly in your marriage for the sake of your children. That might mean the end of your marriage or a massive change in your marriage, which is for you to decide.

Take care of yourself.

Good morning everyone. Thanks for the advice since last night. I literally collapsed into bed 10.30 last night and woke to my toddler this morning at 6am. Feel better for having some rest.

H still not talking to me. I've left him downstairs with the kids whilst I'm upstairs doing laundry.. Today the thought of splitting doesn't fill me with as much dread. Obviously I don't want to, but one thing I'm sure about is that I don't want dds to think their dad threatening me is a way of life. I realise he was frustrated and annoyed at me, but his response was totally disproportionate. If he could open up to me a bit more about his feelings then we could hopefully move forward. I still think it's important for me to get help for myself re the nagging but that's something I have to do for myself.

On the grand scale of things, he is definitely not a bad man. But then I am not a bad person either. The entire running of the house is down to me, from the shopping and paying bills to the organisation of the children. Yes, I do have help, but my children still only want me. I do all the bath and bed time. I do all the wake-ups in the morning, and the wake ups in between. As tired as I am, I try not to wake him to give me a hand in the middle of the night. I do kids breakfasts, lunches and dinners for us, as well as most of the cleaning. I don't know why I'm saying all this, this is probably what most SAHM's do, and more besides, I guess it's to validate my existence. I have never threatened to hit him, regardless of how frustrated he makes me feel with his silence. I understand he is the breadwinner, but I work just as hard as he does. I've never sworn at him either, I don't know why but I think once the respect for each other goes then it all turns to shit. I really believe he doesn't respect me anymore.

Sorry for the rambling.

Placid that last post tells me that DV is something you have no experience or understanding of, as it is often in the chaos and adjustment following pregnancy and birth that it first shows its head.

I did not post ltb on the back of the one isolated incident.

The 'one incident' is however a massive red flag.

Every further post the OP has made is filling out the picture. And it is one that increases the concerns of those who know something about what they are seeing.

As for referring to my ex, do you think I decided he was abusive because of one incident, and then labelled him and left him?

I can't believe you posted I think the OP should leave the relationship because mine is over??!

For your info, my ex is deeply abusive, was chucked off his first DV course because they couldn't work with him. He completed his second course, but they stated he is aggressive and abusive, and the court controls how and how much he sees the DC, due to the emotional harm he caused them.

And yet he never did anything much different from OP's scenario. It's all in the mindset, it's destructive and dangerous, and incredibly hard to see from the inside. And the only place to be is out of it, cos it can't be fixed.

OP I'm sorry to be third personing you. Mumsnet did help me, though it took a long time. I started with the EA thread links. If you have a look, you'll very quickly get an idea whether more is going on here than you think. And there is a wealth of experience here from other posters if you want to say more about what is happening. Perhaps a clearer picture will emerge for you.

I don't think you are rambling Always, not at all. Without you doing all those things, he couldn't work the hours that he does. It's not so far away from the way I view my existence sometimes either, so you are not alone.

At what point do you think he will make any form of communication with you?

What does he do when you speak to him? Does he just ignore you and walk off?

Yes, he is the breadwinner right now, but you are enabling him to earn a wage by taking care of his children and home. In fact most wages wouldn't cover the cost of employing someone to do what you do. Slightly off topic, but still. Glad you feel a bit stronger this morning OP and hope you have a better day

I just cross-posted OP. That feeling of needing to justify your existence is very familiar to me.

What you describe is not the norm for a SAHM. What are his contributions to your domestic life? If he is doing less than he would have to do if he lived alone then the balance is wrong. You have not become the domestic servant because he earns the wage. This is exactly how my relationship started to slide off-balance.

Your DC will be aware of the atmosphere and will not be happy.

You have hit the nail on the head with talking about respect. You are right. If he has no real respect for you and your contribution to daily life then it is a kind of hell.

Do keep rambling, I think you'll find it helpful....

Have you talked to him? please don't get me wrong, I am not excusing his behaviour, but is there a chance that he thinks you don't want to talk to him? have you actually made a move to talk yourself?

Some will no doubt tell me I am wrong and it should be him who makes the first move, well If was me I would rather make the first move than wait around as he obviously isn't going to bring it up right now and I would rather make the first move to open up conversation. I would just want it to begin to be resolved one way or another.

You sound more calm this morning OP. I agree that once respect has gone everything turns to shit but I also believe that sometimes you can get it back if you both want to.

Until you know whether or not he want to work on things you are in limbo, so today if it was me, I would be making it very clear that he needs to talk if he wants to save the marriage.

I apologise if you have already done this. I put up with very little shit but I would make one last attempt to talk and be making it clear he has to if he wants us to work, before ending a 7 year marriage. I don't get the impression that you want this to be the end.

Placid has given some really good impartial advice. Lets put it into perspective, he said one shitty disgusting thing in 7 years and hasn't yet spoke to you about it. If marriages all ended when someone fucks up badly the first time there wouldn't be many left.

And just to be clear, I am only advising the OP to work on her marriage if they are both willing and want to. If she wants this to be the end then that is understandable, but at the same time I don't want her to feel like she should be ending her marriage due to this disgusting outburst because people are telling her to LTB.

Both options are perfectly acceptable. Only OP and her husband can know if the marriage is worth working on. I don't think telling her that next he will be hitting her is fair. We have no way of knowing that one outburst will lead to actual violence and only OP knows if there have been other warning signs that makes her feel like that may happen, and if there is then she obviously need to leave.

All we have is a few posts from the OP. Marriages are complicated and this might be something they can work through.