Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Yes, OP, please look up stonewalling

Fairnuff
Because you clearly had the time and motivation to go through all the messages and find the negative ones. I am suggesting we (collectively) support this young mum to see that this might not be the end of the world.

Cue the chorus of people who will now want to give me an arse-kicking. But all marriages have spats. We can blow it out of all proportion or we can keep things perspective and hope / pray / forgive.

This is an extract OP:

Stonewalling is more natural to males. In general, males - of all social animals - have a more rapid arousal level – stonewalling is a way of shutting out stimulation that spikes arousal.

This is why he is completely unresponsive, until he suddenly and unexpectedly explodes without showing any warning signs.

It’s easier for males to cut off information from the emotional part of their brains when things get hot, a practice they begin as little boys.

He will have learned this during his childhood.

Of course, cultural reinforcement plays a large part, as the icon of the “the strong, silent male,” reinforces stonewalling.

Otherwise a good father, hard working husband, etc.

Men are less likely than women to know when they stonewall, because it seems so natural for them. A sure sign that a man is stonewalling is if he believes his partner nags him. That means he’s not listening. The nagging partner is an unheard partner.

I am suggesting we (collectively) support this young mum to see that this might not be the end of the world.

I am trying to support her. You do what you think best. I'm not going to trawl the thread for you.

Placid - because YOU wrote the following:

"How do you know? And by what standards are you deciding whether something is offensive or not?

I think when two people know each other and love each other - they know in their hearts what is a direct and real threat and what is a very regrettable expressing of frustration.

I am sure I will now be kicked for "minimising" but equally there has been a heck of a lot of catastastrophising on here. Completely unsual for MN I know."

The OP IS very wounded by her husband's actions.

And Placid calm down and stop projecting, I too HOPE the OP and her husband work things out.

always - are the girls in bed yet? If not I would do what Fairenuff suggested, give them a bath (maybe join them if there's room), put them in lovely clean PJ's and snuggle up with them, read them some stories and hopefully DD2 will be able to feed.

When they are in bed and asleep, write a letter to your DH. Tell him how you feel, what you want etc but say to him that you can not and will not live how his parents live. That ignoring you for 24 hrs isn't acceptable, that you will not tolerate it. That you will not stand by while he makes the girls home like the one he grew up in. That he needs to come and talk to you and if he isn't willing to do that, he needs to pack and bag and go and stay elsewhere, until he is.

You have to be strong enough to do this and to follow through with it, because no matter how lovely he is otherwise and how great a Dad he is etc he cannot turn your home into one like his parents have and you cannot stand by while he does it. I know you want better than that for your girls, if not yourself.

Sorry to illustrate this with the case I mentioned earlier...

That thread the other day about the shaking bed / how the memory foam mattress had made things less noticeable .. when the MNer's DH was having a sly w**k when he thought she was asleep.

Aparently this is (according to the strict letter of the law) - a sexual assault. Even as a married couple, we need to have express consent for this kind of behaviour on EACH occasion it is likely to occur and IN ADVANCE.. Sounds so romantic doesn't it?

I am not denying the letter of the law, but this really got me thinking about the whole topic of CATASTROPHISING... If that particular OP had gone down the route she was adviced to by so many MNers, I was imagining the dawn raid, perhaps the H being arrested at his place of work in front of his boss / colleagues, computers being snatched and analysed, children being interviewed by social workers... Because in the literal interpretation of the law .. it is indeed a non-consensual sex act.

I don't want to derail this thread with an unrelated story but I do want to be a (rare) voice of the cause of keeping things in perspective.

So........after reading this I would say your husband is reaching the end of his tether. Very calm, placid - then loses it over something random.

I think something is bothering him, might be you, might be something else but IMO you have got nothing to lose by discussing it.

I don't want to derail this thread with an unrelated story

Don't do it then.

IMO you have got nothing to lose by discussing it.

He won't discuss it likely, never has done. It's been a problem their whole relationship. His parents were the same.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected
You're right I should calm down. And be true to my MN nickname like you. But you have got to admit that now suggesting that the husband might also be having an affair isn't likely to help this Mum is it? I've had quite a lot of people telling me I am talking bollocks but comments like Eggheads seem not to be raising anyone else's hackles.

Deep breaths. Like you, I only wants what is best right now for the OP, her children and her husband - but also for the LONG term health, happiness and prosperity of this family.

To be fair, placid only one person has said suggested that and it has been pretty much ignored, except for your posts.

Kids are in bed. H didn't help. Sat in our room on his laptop. I don't know how to approach him. In reality I'm too disgusted and hurt. I think I may leave it a few days and see what happens. I have a feeling he will start divorce proceedings this week. He usually means things when he says them.. I can't afford a solicitor.

OP, you can get a free half hour with a solicitor. Before you do that, speak to women's aid, they will be able to give you lots of advice.

If you think his is going to start a divorce this week, how about having a last go at fixing things? Could you tell him some of the things you've written on here about how much your family and he means to you and see if there is any basis for the two of you talking together? What do you have to lose from having a go?

Fuck me, I'm still bewildered how it came to this. I was telling my friend only the other day how H is my best friend. How can it be that I'm so blind? How can one stupid fucking row about shoes cause him to threaten me, then indirectly infer it's all over?

I don't understand why people are presenting the fact that your DH has (apparently) been calm and supportive all this time with only two 'outbursts' as a good thing. I think it is a huge problem and probably the heart of all this. It sounds like, given his parents' situation, he has no idea at all how to communicate in a relationship, or how to resolve conflict.

The main problem isn't what you are doing or have done OP, because no matter what you do he should respond by discussing it or at least not bottling up his reactions and then suddenly demanding divorce or threatening violence. The fact that he would threaten to 'punch your face in' in front of his girls shows he has completely lost control of how to process and express his feelings, and he still either hasn't woken up to that, or if he has still can't bring himself to speak about it. Outrageous and worrying that he has not apologised and is still punishing you.

It is not acceptable for him to have problems with you or his life and decide to retreat and bottle them up - you are then punished by being kept in the dark. You seem to veer between no talk of any problems, and suddens threats of violence/divorce. That allows no room for actually finding out how each other feels and improving things. He sounds completely dysfunctional in terms of relationships, and I can be understanding of that given his background, but he needs to commit to trying to change.

No matter how much counselling you have OP or how much you change and tip toe around him, there will always be issues in any relationship that require the two of you to communicate and actually let each other in on how you're feeling so you can work out how to make things better. If he can't learn to do that then you won't be able to make this work by yourself. I have no idea what you do right or wrong, but I do know that it won't matter if he won't engage and be open.

I think you should tell him that you want to work on improving things from both sides, but that can only happen if he agrees to be more open and go to counselling (alone and with you). If he really loves you and has a chance to overcome his issues, he will try, even if it takes some time for him to realise what he has to lose and take the plunge.

If he continues with his current approach of shutting you out or threatening to end things/punch, then you will end up like his parents or worse, and your DDs will be badly affected.

You can't go on like this and you can't correct it by yourself - he has problems he must work on. I think it will be a bumpy road but you may just work it out.

VERY sorry for novel.

Nrft, but read enough. My ex once behaved threateningly towards me, and called me names in front of my son. He is no longer allowed in my house, and ds knows why. No fucker speaks to me like that in front of my child twice.
OP, you might be the most annoying person ever (I doubt it) but even if your husband totally lost his shit because he was at the end of his rope, he should be begging forgiveness after saying what he said. But he isn't, is he? He is still angry with YOU. That's what scares me, and you sound so, I dunno, like you think nothing of yourself.
Think long and hard about what kind of precedents you want to set, and about whether your so called nagging could ever warrant the man who is supposed to love you threatening to smash your face in. In front of your children. ..?

Sonja, he doesn't want to talk. I'm also worried that if I beg forgiveness he will think it's ok for him to treat me like that, and I'll always apologise. 3 years ago, when he thought I was flirting with his bro-in-law (I swear on my dds' lives I wasn't), I apologised to him cos I didn't want our marriage to end. Even though I'd done nothing wrong (in my eyes-I only talked to the guy for a bit, in a public place with all his family including the guy's wife there). As I said I don't want to get into that now, just that I felt I had to apologise just so we could move on.

Placidjoy123
Yes, I do understand where you are coming from regarding OP's husband having an affair.

However, to explode like he did, 'could' indicate that something far deeper/worrying is going on in his head.
Like the OP said, bringing up children really can change the dynamics of a relationship. Although lovely, it's relentless and bloody hard work, and that's not to mention all the financial implications.
Like you and others have said, IMHO they need to be alone and really try to talk. I also think because of OP's husbands upbringing, that counselling would help him, because ultimately he may lose his lovely family if he thinks he can get away with this awful and sorry behaviour.

I would honestly leave it for a few days, explore your options of leaving him/splitting up etc. and then you do need to be brave and tell him that if he's not prepared to discuss properly what happened then it is over.

Definitely don't beg forgiveness! He is the one who should be asking for forgiveness, not you.

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anything you can do if he refuses to speak to you. It isn't possible to fix the problems in your relationship without his involvement. I guess the only thing you can do is take care of yourself and your children and get on with living your own life. I think a trip to the GP to get help sounds like a good idea.

Take care of yourself.

OP, whatever you do, please do not beg his forgiveness. Read temporaryuser's post. Then read it again. You cannot fix this on your own.

Op, please don't apologise for this. It looks like you set the precedent 3 years ago when you apologised for something you didn't do. Just because he isn't talking to you doesn't mean you cannot talk to him. I would be getting pretty angry by now if I were you.

I would honestly ask him to leave for tonight.

Agree totally with what temporary user name just said. It's a nightmare trying to communicate with people who cannot/ will not communicate. He needs to recognise that he has a problem and address it. Sorry you're so sad OP.