Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

I hope she comes back and has a really good think about what she wants.

'LTB no matter what, and without discussion' brigade.

I'm not a fan of 'brigades'. They are derogatory. It could just as easily be the 'It was a one off threat of physical violence, give the man a break brigade'.

But I agree, it did turn into an argument got somewhat derailed. It's so hard to stay neutral sometimes and just give the best advice you can. Fine, of course, for posters to disagree on certain points and discuss them but, poor OP

I believe in "nagging". I have a mother who nags. She will go on and on and on about something she thinks I should do. I am an adult and can decide for myself what to do. She considers it being helpful, I find it irritating and nagging. What is nagging is very subjective and it is something I would take seriously if someone told me they thought I did it.

I have no idea if the OP nags or not. Neither does anyone on this thread. But of her husband experiences it as nagging, then I think it is something to consider when moving forward wit this relationship, if they do move forward. If her hisband refuses to talk about this, I don't see how they can move on at all.

Fairenuff gives a good way to approach this above. If you are still reading then I would consider following it, OP.

Jengnr - your namecalling me says a lot more about you than it does about me - I won't be replying in kind.

Fairenuff - yes, you are right, I am posting to give a different perspective on this. After all, we only have the OP's perspective; it's only fair (and thorough) to consider all angles to help the OP analyse what is going on.

You ask me what I think the OP should do. Only the OP and her husband can decide. I would suggest though, that it sounds as though the OP has been happy, while the husband has not been/is not, so continuing as they are seems untenable.

I agree they need to think carefully independently of one another, and then to talk together about BOTH of their behaviours, and their feelings/ wishes for the future. I think individual counselling would help first.

I do not think the husband should be forced to leave, apologise or even talk now, even if it makes the OP feel better. They should both talk only when they are both ready. If his readiness doesn't coincide with a timescale she accepts - well that's her answer and she needs to move forward with her own life.

I wish them both well - they sound like good people in a bad place. X

LatteLoverLovesLattes
TBC I am really glad that MN was not around back when my comparable incident occurred.

I know everyone is trying to be helpful but it would have seriously messed up with my head had I had a chorus of crystal ball gazers coming on here to tell me they knew EXACTLY what was and wasn't going to happen and that my DH was the spawn of the devil - even though they'd never met him.

I do wonder why some posters seem to have such a predilection to suggest the worst possible outcome.

There was a thread on here the other day from a woman annoyed that she felt the bed shaking while her DH was having a sly w**k thinking she was asleep. Half the MNers tried to convince her that this was sexual assault. Strictly speaking it is (apparently) and he should be getting the express consent on EACH occasion

I agree with LovesPeace. We're all coming to the thread with our own 'baggage' and/or experience.

It IS exhausting to have somebody constantly wittering (and it IS wittering) about nothing in particular. OP says she can be shrill. I think that shrill would annoy me very much.

OP doesn't seem that concerned about the threat of violence otherwise she wouldn't be posting that he's a good man, good father and so on - she'd be asking for help on how to leave. She's not doing that so posters should at least have the grace to accept that she knows how her relationship is with her husband, better than anybody else here.

If the thread is depressing for some posters to read then... maybe leave? It's not ok to start calling other posters names or suggest that they're making excuses for the husband, just because their views don't accord with yours.

I'm not surprised that the OP hasn't been back. It's not the posters suggesting that she have coffee with her husband, or discuss what happened yesterday that are the cause of that (IMO), it's the 'jump in feet first without understanding the relationship' posters that are telling her it's a deal-breaker, she must leave right away or else.

It's really tribal in here sometimes and that's pretty hard to take. Respect that other people have different views and that everybody, via different opinions, is posting to help the OP.

For me the best way of dealing with these kinds of situations is simply to ask;

What matters most?
What do I really want as my best longer term outcome?
What's the best next step?

Answer these questions openly and honestly then listen to your heart.

I'm so sorry I haven't been back. I took the girls for a walk in the park and to clear my head.

The reality is that I think he IS happy generally. I don't know, he doesn't say. We had our 7th anniversary recently and he said he wished he'd met me when he was younger so we could have spent more of our life together...

I'm actually crying as I'm writing this cos I don't know how we've arrived at this horrible place. I'm too weak to threaten to see a solicitor if he refuses to discuss it cos I know I won't go through with it. He's still not talking to me. I made lunch, but he didn't come down (though he ate it later). I look at my eldest dd and my heart is literally in my mouth cos I want her to have both parents with her always. But I don't know how I can move on from this point by myself..

Is there anything you want to say to him, that won't require an answer? He can still hear you even if he's not ready to talk.

I can't discuss this in rl. I don't have many friends who I can talk to about my personal problems, except my Mum. I don't want to burden her. I just feel so sad. Mostly for my girls. I still bf my youngest, but couldn't get any milk to come out today (no let-down).

grunt, that I love him. That I'm sorry if I nag too much. That he and the girls are my entire world. That I don't want to end up like his parents, where we exist for 20 years with no verbal or physical contact. I don't want our DC to think that's the norm.

Jesus christ this thread is depressing.

The OP has actually said that she was scared of her husband. He threatened to punch her face in - in front of her children. He has showed no signs of remorse. When questioned he reverted to a fucking teenager with passively threatening responses "how do we move on from this?" "we don't".

He has in the past said he wants a divorce (presumably when the OP disagreed with something he said? Made some kind of "demand" from him?). He doesn't talk about his emotions. For some reason that we don't know, the OP gave up her high paying career to take care of the kids (and it was a decision that caused arguments, so I'm assuming it was him who insisted you be the one to stay at home? Just an assumption though).

And yet people are coming on here saying it's the OP's fault because she didn't say it in "the right way", or she was "nagging" or some other bullshit.

Wow. Just wow.

Sometimes when people get angry or frustrated, they shout at the other person. THEY DON'T PHYSICALLY THREATEN THEM.

Jesus wept.

On the plus side maybe he will never actually hit you. He'll just keep threatening to and scaring the shit out of you. Er...

Is this the image of a marriage that you want to give your children? :(

Could you say that to him?

From previous experience is he likely to be more open to talking in a day or two, or is this the way he is going to be always?

OP has said that this is not normal behaviour from DH. This is a one off, angry outburst from a man who, in my opinion, doesn't want to be in this relationship anymore. I'm not saying what he did/said was ok because it is unacceptable but there's a bigger issue here.

He has openly admitted wanting a divorce previously, to the point where he has researched solicitors, and the only thing that made him stay was your DD. OP openly admits that she nags him, that nobody makes any effort and that she has gained a lot of weight. If you're happy with your weight gain then fine, but there is no rule to say your DH has to be ok with it. Some men don't care when their wives gain weight, some men do. I don't know which pot your DH falls into. And before MNetters get all up in arms, I've seen plenty of posts here where ladies moan that their husbands have gained weight and they don't find them attractive anymore. It works both ways.

To what extent do you nag? Are you constantly on at him? I had PND and I honestly don't know how my DH put up with me, I was vile to live with. Be honest, is the only time you talk to him when you're pulling him down or telling him he's done something wrong? You need to get him to talk to you, because from what you've said I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

OP this only happened yesterday. I imagine he's in as much turmoil as you and fearful about the future. Can you think of any reason not to say those things out loud to him and then just quietly walk away so that he can let it sink in.

He's probably as fearful as you that his marriage is going the same way as his parents and he'd rather get out now than for that to come true. But he loves his children and I'm sure he'd rather try to work this out for the entire family's sake that go through the trauma and upheaval of a divorce. It's down to agreeing about what has got to be done to turn this situation round.

I think there is much more going on here than OP cares to admit.

SAHM with a full time home help and she is still stressed?

Alwaysalone... to say that he wished he'd met you when he was younger to have spent more time with you - well, these are not the words of somebody who doesn't love you.

Do you think that he is under stresses, has problems that he hasn't talked to you about? Some people - men and women - find it hard to talk about things. My husband is a bit like that - as am I. He chatters on about this and that quite often and I tend to switch off a bit, which isn't nice of me. Your husband might also be the 'switching off' sort - I do that when I'm stressed, when I'm not, I'm all ears. Might it be stress at the bottom of the lashing out?

You're obviously not in fear of actual bodily harm from your husband otherwise you'd be posting differently. So - the 'punch in the face' comment... if that is out of the ordinary, then he may be deeply ashamed and unable to talk about it. In his world he's the provider, the husband, all things to his family, etc. - and in saying this, he may think that it's 'crossed a line of no return', he can't take it back? I'm not saying that he does think this way but maybe he does?

If it were my husband and he refused to speak to me, I'd slip a note, send a text to tell him that I was sorry for my part (without specifying what that is) and that I wanted us to be speaking again... and then leave it at that. He will rejoin at some point, he has to. Then I'd follow Fairylea's brilliant advice.

It's your marriage, OP, and your thread. Don't be made to feel that you need to follow any or all advice in it. Do know that whatever people are saying, it's coming from a good place though.

for you.

finn I don't THINK I'm constantly at him. But, that's how he may feel. He works 9-6 except weekends, and when he comes home we put kids to bed and have dinner together. I usually feel I nag when it's something to do with the kids. A pp was right when she/he said I wanted things 'my way'. I realise that's my problem not his. To be fair, he generally ignores me and does things his way anyway, and that's when I nag most (for ex, if dd2 usually naps 12-1, he'll nap her 2-3 if I'm out for the day, which means she won't sleep till 10pm at night, which in turn ruins our dinner together.)

The one thing I wonder is that if he feels so bad in our marriage, why he doesn't SAY. To give me some kind of clue that all is not well. The threat to divorce a few years ago was in response to something else (I've already mentioned it previously), not because of my behaviour towards him.

kaykayblue... Well I'd be more scared of shouting to be honest, it makes me feel sick and cold when people shout at me, however 'acceptable' they might think it - or feel that it gives them 'moral high ground' over threatening to hit. A threat to hit is just a thread - shouting is actual and very abusive in its own right, thank you very much.

The only depressing thing about this thread is OP's upset; nothing else matters and the faux-depressed and outraged can be safely ignored.

wildbill, thanks for taking the time to post. I don't know why you keep alluding to the fact I have help and I'm still stressed. Yes I do have help. However, even with the help there my children still prefer me I.e, my eldest only wants ME to take her to the loo, my youngest only prefers ME to change her nappy. I still cook and clean myself. I promise, I don't sit with my feet up whilst the help does everything. It is possible to have people help you, and still work hard.

I'd like to think OP that maybe this isn't the end of your marriage, but an overdue wake-up call for you both that you can't go on like this. It'll be no good, for example if you get an apology from your husband for the outburst and go back to normal, if 'normal' is what's caused the problems. He may be planning on seeing a solicitor next week because he can't go on the same way. I can't see what harm there is in saying what your post at 16.34.35 said and leaving him to think about. Meanwhile do your best to make your home life as harmonious as possible for your children's sake.

Thanks grant, I know. I am trying to act very normally for the kids, though it think eldest dd knows something's wrong, poor love. I know we can't carry on as normal. I will make an appt to see my GP first thing Tuesday morning to see if she can refer me to counselling. I don't know whether that is within their remit?

If you do it all anyway, can you not get rid of the help and reduce some financial pressure that way. Or use the childcare to return to work.

It does sound like he was pushed into being the main earner and had no choice in the decision. You could reverse roles of he truly wanted to be the SAHP. Doesn't have to be forever. You admit to wanting things done your way and that can be controlling for the other person.

He needs to talk about what pushed him to the point of snapping.

Yes Daisy, I agree. The problem is with his job that if he leaves and becomes sahd, it will be very difficult for him to get back into that career. My job, though very well paid, earns less than his so we would really struggle financially. I will be going back to work 2 days a week once dd2 turns 2 so I can start contributing financially.