Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

You don't think there's a difference between someone who loses his temper every day and someone who has lost his temper once in 7 years? Well, IMO, the former would mean he's got a problem and needs to go on an anger management course, and the latter means he's a human being. The OP hasn't told us whether she kept on about the shoes for hours until he snapped or whether she mentioned it once and never again. That is also relevant. I imagine stress levels were already high, as the children were crying before this incident and it was a long car journey. I can't imagine never forgiving my husband if he did this once and vice versa. He has apologised, but he's still regarded my the vast majority on MN as some kind of monster from whom the OP needs protecting.

I can see how you might think that on the face of it but abuse is very subtle and often hard to pin-point or articulate. You can see, though, that OP has tried very hard to get across the 'big picture'.

Threatening to punch someone in the face is aggressive. No-one can argue against that.

The point about the temper. What does losing once in 7 years mean then? Either it means that he can control his temper in which case he thought that, on this occasion, it was ok to be aggressive towards OP, or he can't control it. Most posters seems to think it's the first option which is all the more worrying.

In any case, an apology is not enough. OP has suffered a traumatic verbal assault and needs to really talk this over with him. He needs to be genuinely sorry and to look at his own behaviour without putting blame on her. Why did he chose to say that? Would he have acted the same way if the other person was a 6ft tall, 16 stone man? Probably not. He probably would have exercised enough restraint not to put himself at risk of being 'punched back'.

FWIW I agree that there is often a bias towards women on mn. I have seen threads where women are aggressive towards men and the man is blamed.

However, I don't think that applies to this thread. The man in this scenario became aggressive and that's not acceptable. I don't think OP should be blamed for someone else's decisions.

We all have a choice of whether to attack or move away. He made the wrong choice. That is compounded by his history of refusing to talk to OP. This is a very disturbed relationship and not good at all for the children.

Abuse is very subtle - but I'd say bitching at everything your partner does, how they parent, how they use bibs, etc for 7 long years probably does it.

Well said LovesPeace

But that's the point LP, I don't think OP has been bitching at everything. Imagine living with someone and watching them feed your child something that will make him ill.

'You think to yourself, oh no, he's doing it again. I've told him time and time again not to give him those.'

What do you do? Do you speak out and remind him to stop? Because if you do you will be nagging. Or do you say nothing and let the child be ill, just to keep the peace.

You see what I mean, it's so, so subtle that these women genuinely start to doubt themselves.

Who the hell doubts if they're in the wrong when someone threatens to punch them in the face? A person who is used to living with certain types of behaviour, that's who.

I totally agree with you, capant (& others).

Threats of violence / violent behaviour are certainly not minimised on MN when they're committed by women -at least not in any threads I've ever seen.

I can remember threads from the recent past where women who have shouted & sworn at their male partners have been told in no uncertain terms, by a majority of posters, that their behaviour is emotionally abusive.

And this behaviour has NOT included threatening to punch people's faces in.

And LovesPeace, your post - some pages back - in which you describe the OP as the "bastard" who should be left is one of the vilest things I've read for some time.

I don't even see what the evidence is that the OP has worn her husband down with years of nagging: but even if that were the case, it still wouldn't justify such a horrible threat.

I would be pretty annoyed, I think, if I'd done all the packing & preparation for a holiday & DH forgot to do one simple, obvious thing.

If we were both a bit stressed out, I might well have pointed out that it was the only sodding thing he'd had to do, & I'd done everything else, & I was fed up.

And he might well have snapped back & felt irritated with me for having a go at him. But he would not have threatened to punch my face in, because that's entirely outside the compass of acceptable behaviour for the overwhelming majority of people.

It may be that the OP's husband is having some sort of breakdown, if this is totally out of character. There may well be some extenuating circumstances.

But that's a long way away from saying that such behaviour can be explained, even justified, by his having to put up with a "nagging" wife. And some of the posts on this thread are disturbingly close to saying the latter.

Has no one here ever done or said something wrong in the heat of the moment and been forgiven by their spouse? As long as the 'something wrong' was a one-off and the forgiveness wasn't treated as carte blanche to do it again I think that's a normal part of life. It's about honesty, mutual respect and, dare I say it, love. We're human beings, not robots.

Grunt - No I have never threatened to punch anyone in the face in the "heat of the moment".

Has no one here ever done or said something wrong in the heat of the moment and been forgiven by their spouse?

To be fair, and put it in the context of this thread, that question should really read,

Has no one here ever threatened to punch their partner in the face in the heat of the moment and been forgiven by their spouse

Puts a different slant on it doesn't it. Let's get real. She was in fear of being punched in the face by her partner.

He won't talk to her about it, there's no forgiveness or repentance to be had because he refuses to discuss it.

What do you suggest OP does about it? Forget it, like he suggested too?

No, cap, neither have I.

And I would be totally shocked if anyone threatened to punch me in the face never mind my DP.

And I would want to talk it over.

No, I don't suggest OP forgets it.

I've got to go out now, so if I don't respond to any posts addressed to me that's why.

I'm lactose intolerant. Cheese and onion crisps have very little lactose in them, and the worst that would happen is that the lactose will pass through undigested. It's a very different thing from an allergy.

It's controlling behaviour on the OP's part. Look at the wider picture too - the husband works hard, is a good dad, but money is tight so they can only get away for ONE WEEKEND a year, the OP then does her best to spoil it by blaming him for forgetting shoes (she's equally responsible).

So he's worked all year, then loads his daughter into the car, only for the OP to attack him verbally, then be surprised when he retorts.

And now you are all suggesting hoops for him to jump through, ways he can debase himself at the altar of her perfect womanhood, in order for him to be allowed to stay, when he's miserable. Or don't his feelings count as long as SHE is happy?

If the roles were reversed, you'd be telling him that one outburst was understandable, and that he needs to leave the controlling bastard who drove him to it.

But a line has been crossed nevertheless. Op feels very much like this and I would too. I don 't think for me it would be a case of leaving or calling Women's Aid, more of a "Christ, how has it come to this?" It would definitely warrant some serious talking, if he won't talk about it what is the op to do?

LovesPeace - What is your agenda here? Because in comments you are continually twisting the truth here and making personal insults at the OP..

1. What evidence is there that he is a good dad? None that I can see
2. Being unhappy that a child does not have shoes on is perfectly normal behavior between partners, whatever their sex.
3. Both may have been stressed. Packing up for a holiday with young children is very stressful. And the OP packed the car.

So a bit of frayed tempers is to be expected, that is no big deal.

Threatening to punch your partner in the face is much much more than frayed tempers.

A line has been crossed.

Loon - of course, because no woman can ever be a bastard who needs to be left? Only men. Misandrist rubbish again.

Living with a partner (of either gender) who makes it their life's work to find fault (even the OP and her mother recognised that she treats her husband badly - 'putting him down') is being subject to emotional abuse.

This thread, of course, is posted from the OP's perspective, which doesn't make it objective.

So you are a Men's Rights Activist LovesPeace?

@Grunt I live in South Africa, one of the world's most violent places with a high domestic violance with inadequate if any protection from police services, many women continue to live with physically abusive men to a point where it tolerated yet I do not think threats of violance are an indiscretion to be swept under a carpet. Yes there are people who lose their temper but that does not make it normal

Capant -

1. The OP says he is a good husband and father.
2. She says she is happy in the marriage and has expressed surprise that he has twice voiced that he is not.
3. Holidays are stressful. And OP forgot to pack shoes. Husband worked all week to afford it.

Threatening to punch your partner is, of course, unacceptable. But so is verbally and emotionally abusing your partner over 7 long years.

Do I need an 'agenda' incidentally, in order not to agree with you? Because yours is the only valid/right opinion that should be heard (well, read )?

If I were the OP I'd step away from this thread now.

This happened yesterday, right? Her husband may still be processing how they have come to this awful point, he may be humiliated over his own behaviour, he may be thinking about what he wants for the future in this relationship.The OP said he isn't good with emotions. Maybe his silence at the moment reflects the turmoil inside? Or maybe he is a cold bastard who doesn't care that he threatened his wife.

No-one here knows what he is thinking. Yes, it would have been best if he had been grovelling for forgiveness first thing this morning, but maybe he will when he has time to process his thoughts and emotions. Not everyone is so quick to express themselves, some people need some time to think first.

Personally, I'd give him a chance to come to terms with what had happened before writing him off.

Fairnuffe, my dh once got so angry with me that he shouted, 'shut up, shut, shut up, or I will fucking kill you'. I did not think, gosh he is an abuser and it will only get worse from here. I better call women's aid and ltb. I thought, wow, we are both under a lot of stress and things have got really bad. We need to sort it out' . So we did. Posters saying 'this behaviour is unacceptable', yeah, but we all behave in unacceptable ways sometimes, we all treat our nearest and dearest in ways we wouldn't treat our boss, we all behave badly when under tension and pressure. We don't always sit down for a calm chat when really riled. We just don't!
Op I don't think it is possible for anyone here to know what your situation is really like. You have a wide range of views to consider and work out which seems to best match your situation. Personally, I think your real issue in working things out with dh is not this outburst, but his apparent long term refusal to talk things through. I am not a massive fan of the 'you just need to talk culture', but sometimes, with major issues, you kinda do need to.

Zulu, people losing their temper is very normal. How many people an honestly say they never have?

Capant - no, just because I disagree with you, does not make me a Men's Rights Activist.

I'm for complete equality, and hate misandry as much as I hate misogyny.

Ergo both women and men can be 'bastards', emotionally, physically and/or financially abusive, etc. It's not always the one with the penis (although statistically more likely).

No, I don't suggest OP forgets it.

So, what do you suggest she does do then Grunt?