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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can't work out how I feel about my bizarre relationship (long, sorry)

381 replies

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 14:00

Have changed my name for this post. I don't really know where to start with this, and I fear it could turn out to be far too long, so will try to keep it as concise as possible (which isn't very). Apologies in advance if I leave out too many details.

Me and DP have been together since 2005. We have DD and DS, aged 4 and nearly 3. I fell head over heels for DP very shortly after meeting him: it really seemed we were soul mates, and I was sincerely convinced for many years that it was very, very rare for a couple to love each other as much as we loved each other.

Shortly after meeting DP, I received an email from someone I didn't know, warning me that DP was a liar and that I should check everything. It was a strange email in that there was info in there that could only have come from someone who had been spying on our instant messenger conversations and emails. To cut a long story short, it turned out to be from DP's ex-girlfriend, who somehow had gained access to his emails etc. She had used a fake name to send me the email. All in all, she hadn't given me any reason to believe she was a reliable source of information, and I dismissed her (after an angsty conversation with DP).

Over the next 6.5 years, I could never shake the sense that DP was lying to me - about everything. This seemed so implausible to me at the time - after all, who (outside of a soap opera) would lie about everything? - that I dismissed it, and attributed this feeling to the fact that DP's ex had written me that strange email near the start of our relationship. We went on to live together, to get engaged, and to have DD and DS.

To cut a very long story short(ish), it turned out that he was indeed lying to me about literally everything. The most shocking lie was pretending to be terminally ill for several years starting from around the time DD was conceived in early 2009 - even going as far to get a scar tattooed on. Aside from that, he would lie about our finances (I no longer had a bank account (because he saw to it, I later realised) and he pretended he was wealthy when in fact we were on benefits), his intentions to marry me (he 'made' literally hundreds of appointments for us to have a no-frills reg office wedding, all of which were cancelled due to unforeseen aspects of his 'treatment' - it later emerged that he was still married to his ex wife), and he borrowed £1000s from my family despite having no way of repaying them.

Throughout all this, I suspected him constantly, but dismissed my suspicions for various reasons. Partly it was because the lies simply didn't make sense: I was working on the assumption that if someone lies to you, it's because they stand to gain something by doing so, and as far as I could see, he stood to gain nothing (quite the reverse in many cases). Partly it was because, as mentioned above, I was afraid that I was being unduly influenced by his ex's email. And partly because, when you think the love of your life is dying, you are afraid that your mind is playing tricks on you: of course you would prefer to believe that they have made up their illness, because that would be preferable to them dying, so that is a reason to dismiss your suspicion that they aren't really ill.

So, fast forward to mid-2012. DD is 2.5 and DS is nearly a year old. For nearly 2 years, we have been living rent-free (or, rather, on DP's constant promise of paying rent) in a totally unsuitable and frankly dangerous-for-kids annex of the home of some lovely relatives of mine. I had not gone back to work after DD was born, and spent my days at home, in the middle of nowhere, with no car, no bank account, 2 small kids to look after, while DP goes out every single day for hospital treatment. All I would do with my life, every day, is feed the kids and take them out for walks. Almost every day I am expecting that we are going to have our no-frills wedding, and every time I hope that this time it will go ahead, but DP calls with some reason why it has had to be cancelled. And almost every day I am expecting that today, finally, after a zillion hiccups, our joint bank account will finally be sorted out and we can get access to DP's massive savings and repay my relatives the money we owe them - but this never happens (N.B. I am not mercenary, I didn't care about living the high life, I just wanted a normal life and not to be in debt to my relatives). Writing all this is making my chest constrict, and maybe you can imagine the enormous stress I was under. It was really difficult to cope with all this, but 'knowing' that DP had a far more difficult battle to fight (i.e. his illness) made me feel guilty for worrying about my own troubles.

Anyway, in mid-2012, DP's excuses and stories started to build up to the extent that they become really quite implausible, and DP himself was starting to behave more erratically, presumably with the stress of keeping all the lies going. Even so, it was only after a long conversation with one of my relatives that I started to confront the possibility that DP was lying about his illness. (An aside: by this point, everyone else in my family had worked out he was lying, but they never said anything about it to me. Either they felt awkward about it or they thought I had access to more information to support my belief in him. But the fact that they all seemed to believe him itself made me think he must be telling the truth, and made me feel guilty for doubting him.) I spoke to DP on the phone - he'd gone to the hospital (or rather pretended to) as usual - and I gently asked him if he was really ill, and that maybe the problem was psychological rather than physical. Immediately he admitted it, if 'admitted' is the right term (given that, as I'll explain, he had trouble distinguishing lies from reality) - he said something like, 'yes, maybe you're right'.

From here, it's quite difficult to explain. It has turned out not to be a case of him consciously and maliciously deciding to lie. He genuinely seemed to have come to believe his own lies. I went to the GP with him and he was referred for a mental health assessment, and diagnosed with dissociative disorder, depression, and anxiety. He had large gaps in his memory and seemed not very capable of distinguishing reality from the fantasy he had invented. Over the months and years since (yes, we are still together), it has turned out that some very awful things have happened to him, and that he has been lying about things since childhood as a way to make himself feel better about himself and more important than he believes he is (he basically believes he is worthless). I think that he has been lying so long that lying comes as naturally to him as telling the truth does to the rest of us, and so it is very difficult for him to stop: much of the time, the decision to lie isn't a conscious choice.

He genuinely struggles wiith this and tries his best to get better. He has taken all the help he has been offered in terms of counselling - which isn't very much, and in my non-professional opinion he hasn't been offered the right sort of thing (basically he sees a counsellor and talks about his past, whereas I think he should be having something like CBT that would focus on getting him to stop lying, which is the root of all our problems). When I realised that we were penniless and on benefits, I saw that I would need to go back to work. I am very highly qualified but work in an extremely competitive industry where jobs are hard to come by. We lived in a shitty council flat, on benefits, for a year while I worked every spare waking minute at trying to get back to work, and eventually I did get a job. Last autumn we moved out of the shitty council estate and into a privately rented house in a nicer area.

My family, understandably, want little to do with DP after all this came out. However, whereas people tended to assume that he'd just leave after he'd been rumbled, he has not. While I've been working, he has tirelessly been a full-time dad. He is a wonderful father: far more patient than me, he adores our children and fills their days with fun things: they have planted flowers in the garden together, learned to ride bikes, etc, and he is involved with their pre-school as a committee member. At the same time he keeps our home in order, does all our grocery shopping, cleans and does the washing, etc. His only 'me time' without the kids are a night in the pub once a week with some friends who know nothing about his strange history (he doesn't get drunk, and doesn't drink much in general), and playing sport once a week during the summer. I am not trying to paint a romantic picture of him here - what I am trying to do is make the point that, whilst the lying etc might make it easy to view him as a villain, he has done his utmost to do the right thing since the problem has been identified.

The problem, though, is that he does still lie sometimes. I can't trust him not to. Sometimes he will admit it out of the blue, without me having pressured him to tell the truth, and he will be full of remorse. But sometimes when he lies, I know he is lying, but he won't admit it - and maybe can't admit it. He is not getting the right sort of mental health help to stop this, and we can't afford private treatment at the moment. And I'm left feeling that I'm dealing with it alone ... I don't really discuss it with people, and about a year ago he admitted it to his mum (which was a big deal because his mum has been through hell for various reasons recently, so he'd put off telling her). I was so pleased when he told his mum because I thought I'd have someone to talk to about it, but it hasn't worked out like that. His mum said she just needed time to digest it, then she and I would have a proper talk. But it's never happened. In the year since she found out, she's visited various family members who needed her help with various things, but she still hasn't tried to get to grips with what DP has been doing. And whilst I konw it must be upsetting for her, it also makes me see that maybe this is why DP is the way he is - he certainly doesn't seem high up her list of priorities. I feel like I've just been left holding the baby, so to speak: I'm dealing with it alone.

I never tell anyone about this. When the lies came to light, I had various friends who believed that DP was seriously ill, so I did tell them the truth in order to put them right. I rarely see them and they don't ask me about DP, perhaps understandably (what would they say?!). Everyone else - e.g. people I work with - just thinks we are a normal couple. I feel a bit like I lead a double life.

And now, I don't know whether I want this any more. I'm so tired of it all. I will always love DP, and I think he is a wonderful father, but the head-over-heels aspect of my feelings for him have gone, and I don't know if they'll come back. It's like the person I loved never existed, and whilst in the early days I was desperate to get that person back, I've sort of given up now. I know he still lies, and I really don't want it to be my problem any more - I don't want to live like this, with the stress of not being able to trust him. But, at the same time, I sort of can't imagine life without him. The children adore him. I care deeply for him and want to help him get better - I think he deserves to get better, he certainly struggles so hard with everything. I don't know what I want.

Complicating my feelings is the thought that, even if I did want out, I don't know how to get out. We live in a very expensive part of the country, and if we broke up we would have to pay for 2 households on my salary. I'm nearly 40, and hoping to buy a house in a year, otherwise I'll be too old to get a mortgage. DP could work, but we'd have to pay for childcare in that case, so wouldn't necessarily be better off. DP has occasionally said that we're not a normal couple and that if I want he will move out and find somewhere alone (presumably a crappy council bedsit), but still come over every day and look after the children. This itself breaks my heart ... his self-esteem is so low that it wouldn't even enter his head to fight for the children to live with him. He believes he deserves so little.

I have sort of lost track of what I was even wanting to ask with this post. I guess I just want to tell someone my story so that maybe, in the discussion that follows (if anyone has read this far!) I might get some clarity to my feelings.

OP posts:
OhMyArsingGodInABox · 19/08/2014 20:54

Oh it's all just bollocks, sweetheart, all of it.

He's a liar, he's been caught out lying so he's telling you more lies to cover it.

Just leave. You sound horrendously co dependant, he's not your problem. Your children are and you seriously need to wake up and start protecting them.

He is not a poor mentally ill victim, I'd bet my last two pence on it. He's just a pathological liar.

AgentProvocateur · 19/08/2014 20:55

Gosh, I remember your posts from years ago (the whole wedding arrangements). You're certainly further forward than you were then, but still in a tricky place. I have no advice, but you sound strong and capable and a lovely person. Most people (me included) would have run for the hills.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 19/08/2014 20:57

Why did his wife stop all contact with his children? Do you think she might have been protecting them from him?

AlpacaMyBags · 19/08/2014 21:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 19/08/2014 21:08

I've googled dissociative disorder, apart from the amnesia type symptoms it doesn't really fit. I don't think that a diagnosis from a mental health worker is worth much, no disrespect to them but in terms of official diagnosis you need a lot more than one meeting and it should really be a psychiatrist.

Tinks42 · 19/08/2014 21:12

Wow! just wow, He's consuming you. He's only had a few years of sucking the life out of you though so far, do you want it to be for the rest of it?

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 21:19

I agree with everyone saying that his diagnosis should perhaps be revisited. Aside from anything else, he received the diagnosis from the mental health gateway person over 2 years ago, and a lot has changed since then.

I would be absolutely astounded, though, if he was diagnosed with anything like schizophrenia or bipolar. I am not medically qualified at all, but I do know a bit about mental illness via my profession, and I have never seen any signs of mania, psychosis, delusions, etc. In my opinion he has just got accustomed from a very young age to creating (and living in) an alternative reality. I know from experience (i.e. from my current situation of pretending that we're a normal couple!) that when you present things to people in a way other than how they really are, and when those people respond as if the way you've presented things is how they really are, the effect is pretty unsettling ... if that makes any sense at all.

As for why his ex-wife stopped contact with the children, she just disappeared with them. This was in the days before the internet and it wa s a lot easier for someone to disappear like that. She went off with a mutual friend of theirs, whom she later married. I intend to speak to DP's mum about all this when I have the chance. Anyway. I have looked her up on Google and she has gone on to have many children by several different men, and has been married several times - which sort of fits with what DP has told me (that sounds hideously judgey - didn't mean it to). Also, I'm inclined to believe this tale ... it is such a horrible, traumatic tale that it would help explain why DP is the way he is. Because something must explain it, after all.

OP posts:
snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 21:20

Tinks this is kind of why I am posting here. No, I don't want this for the rest of my life.

OP posts:
quietlysuggests · 19/08/2014 21:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LoveBeingInTheSun · 19/08/2014 21:21

I think discussing it is wise

Tinks42 · 19/08/2014 21:23

You cant fix him OP. If I were you, I'd just concentrate on your two beautiful children and get out of it. Your children are far more important now.

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 21:27

quietly I am the sole earner in the family and I have control of all the money I earn. I transfer money bit by bit into a joint account for DP to take care of household expenses. However, I do have reason to believe that he has money from some other source (not much, but still). I have asked him about this but have never got a satisfactory answer.

He's not lying about the diagnosis: I saw the official NHS letter giving the diagnosis. It arrived when DP was not there, and I opened it. As for his visits to the counsellor (or lack of visits) I have a plan to find out about this later this week.

Unfortunately I don't have a huge amount of 'hands on' family support. We live a long way from all of our family members, and there is no chance of that changing. In some ways I wish I could move closer to the rest of my family, but I can't, given my job (my family live in a remote rural area and I would have no chance of doing the work I'm qualified to do).

OP posts:
snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 21:31

Tinks I know I can't fix him. I sometimes ask myself how I think all this iis going to end up, i.e. where we'll all be in 10 years. I don't know. If I could wave a magic wand, I think I'd choose for me and the children to be living in our own home together, with reliable childcare arangements, and DP to be living separately but seeing us all on a very regular basis.

We've been talking about buying a house in a year's time, when hopefully I'll have managed to save up for a deposit. The house would be in my name only (because I can't be 100% sure that DP doesn't have debts, so wouldn't risk jeopardising our home). But while I'm saving up, I don't think we can afford to split up! Because that would mean increased costs for childcare etc (assuming that DP would have to go and work in order to afford to live elsewhere).

Sorry about my spelling ... I know perfectly well how to spell, but can't be arsed :)

OP posts:
snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 21:32

Oh, God - I don't know. I say I'd wave a magic wand and have him live separately from us, but at the same time that thought breaks my heart. I do love him. Not the head over heels type of love any more, but I see the goodness in him as he tries to struggle against all this and fight for us even with the little help he has been geting.

OP posts:
Tinks42 · 19/08/2014 21:34

Im not very good at saying there there on here. I just do bottom line stuff. OP, you can have the just you and the children living on your own. Not sure if you can have the DP seeing you on a regular basis though. Small price to pay here don't you think.

velourvoyageur · 19/08/2014 21:35

Is there any way you could arrange for a trial separation?

Also, I don't want to be horrible, but are you sure he's telling the whole truth about his childhood? Up to you to decide and know whether more lies are a dealbreaker or not.

I have been lied to like this and I know how shit it is. You don't HAVE to be with him, you really don't, and you must look after yourself. I know this is such a cliche but you do only get one life, and sometimes you have to make very tough decisions. After a couple of months apart, you might realise how much healthier you are....apart. I spent months feeling guilty and feeling like I was the only one taking care of my ex, and then the lies came out and some wise people told me that it just wasn't up to me, and listening to them was absolutely the right thing to do.
He also told me that he thought I wouldn't want to know him if he didn't make up all sorts of things to make him seem interesting, quirky, introspective etc....

It all sounds incredibly stressful OP, you shouldn't have to be dealing with this. Maybe you need to find a bottom line. Like: you can't trust him, and maybe that's not his fault, but it's too hard to live with in the end. Are you going to sacrifice yourself or not?

Quitelikely · 19/08/2014 21:36

My heart goes out to you. IMO you have shown your dh so much empathy that it is testament to your character. You don't seem angry at him and I do admire the fact that you recognise and sympathise that he is this way as a consequence of the past. However, now is the time to realise that although you have this regard for your dh you can no longer carry him. You have given him a chance (or two) and he has not made the most of that.

You can't be responsible for him, for much longer. You know that now. You have tried so hard and been very patient but I don't think there is much more you can do. You have to start living life for YOU, you have tried to make your marriage successful but that depended upon the cooperation of your husband who, unfortunately hasn't the resources/desire to turn the situation around.

I understand what you mean about your thoughts on the dc being safe with him etc and I get that BUT common sense tells me that his personality/ways will imprint on them. Otherwise I have to believe then that he is in control of his lies because if he is mentally ill, why does he save the stories for you and not them? If he was truly ill he would not be able to reserve his behaviour for a select few (I don't think, could be wrong)

Anyhow, you have gave this situation your all. It might be time to bow out.....

velourvoyageur · 19/08/2014 21:38

It seems like you're very worried about how he would react to you leaving him, but you're not thinking enough about yourself IMO. It may even be good for him.

The thing that stands out for me here is that I think you both just need space. To think, and for you to see him from a distance, and to see how you are when you're not around him. You might find that surprisingly you just simply feel happier. Perspective is so valuable and it's very hard to get that from where you are now, so emotionally caught up in the situation.

joanofarchitrave · 19/08/2014 21:38

And yet... he has already said that he could see you living in the way that you have seen you all living - separately but spending time together. Is it possible that he suggested that, not because (or not only because) he has low self-esteem, but because part of him would find that less stressful? It must be exhausting for him to sustain so many lies - if he had to lie for fewer hours a day maybe he would find that easier?

From your children's point of view, I grew up with two parents, one who I could always trust and one who I finally worked out aged 11 that i could not believe a word he said. I can't say the latter was positive.

velourvoyageur · 19/08/2014 21:39

Totally agree with Quitelikely, they've managed to say all I wanted to without the waffle!

Twinklestein · 19/08/2014 21:41

I sincerely hope he doesn't have the illnesses I mentioned, my point was that he has apparently been diagnosed by someone who may not be qualified to give such a diagnosis, and until he is you don't really know what you're dealing with. Dissociative states may be part of other mental illnesses and disorders - personality disorders, for example. And there are different types of dissociative disorders, do you know which one he has?

Quitelikely · 19/08/2014 21:41

Can I ask if you are still intimate? (Just to give more of a picture)

Iwasinamandbunit · 19/08/2014 22:01

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tiptops · 19/08/2014 22:08

Wow. What a huge burden you are having to carry around with you snow

On the mental health side of things, I agree with others that he needs to access a psychiatrist as a priority. His diagnosis sounds dubious at best, and as you say after two years it needs reviewing anyway.

One other thing that struck me reading your posts: a mortgage is far, far less important than your quality of life and you have a right to honesty in your relationship. For now, I think renting is far preferable than living with someone who is a pathological liar. That doesn't mean you will never be able to buy a house, the future could have anything in store including a new partner who is honest and also in a position to commit to a mortgage.

MagpieMama · 19/08/2014 22:10

What a terribly sad situation Sad
You sound like a strong woman OP! I think that your DP needs someone to advocate for him, to push his GP etc for the help and support he needs from the professionals. It's not an easy job to be someone's carer and only you can decide if that's something you can or want to do. If it is, then you'll also need support for yourself.
I'd also suggest going for joint counselling if you stay in your relationship.
Best of luck to you and your family Thanks