Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can't work out how I feel about my bizarre relationship (long, sorry)

381 replies

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 14:00

Have changed my name for this post. I don't really know where to start with this, and I fear it could turn out to be far too long, so will try to keep it as concise as possible (which isn't very). Apologies in advance if I leave out too many details.

Me and DP have been together since 2005. We have DD and DS, aged 4 and nearly 3. I fell head over heels for DP very shortly after meeting him: it really seemed we were soul mates, and I was sincerely convinced for many years that it was very, very rare for a couple to love each other as much as we loved each other.

Shortly after meeting DP, I received an email from someone I didn't know, warning me that DP was a liar and that I should check everything. It was a strange email in that there was info in there that could only have come from someone who had been spying on our instant messenger conversations and emails. To cut a long story short, it turned out to be from DP's ex-girlfriend, who somehow had gained access to his emails etc. She had used a fake name to send me the email. All in all, she hadn't given me any reason to believe she was a reliable source of information, and I dismissed her (after an angsty conversation with DP).

Over the next 6.5 years, I could never shake the sense that DP was lying to me - about everything. This seemed so implausible to me at the time - after all, who (outside of a soap opera) would lie about everything? - that I dismissed it, and attributed this feeling to the fact that DP's ex had written me that strange email near the start of our relationship. We went on to live together, to get engaged, and to have DD and DS.

To cut a very long story short(ish), it turned out that he was indeed lying to me about literally everything. The most shocking lie was pretending to be terminally ill for several years starting from around the time DD was conceived in early 2009 - even going as far to get a scar tattooed on. Aside from that, he would lie about our finances (I no longer had a bank account (because he saw to it, I later realised) and he pretended he was wealthy when in fact we were on benefits), his intentions to marry me (he 'made' literally hundreds of appointments for us to have a no-frills reg office wedding, all of which were cancelled due to unforeseen aspects of his 'treatment' - it later emerged that he was still married to his ex wife), and he borrowed £1000s from my family despite having no way of repaying them.

Throughout all this, I suspected him constantly, but dismissed my suspicions for various reasons. Partly it was because the lies simply didn't make sense: I was working on the assumption that if someone lies to you, it's because they stand to gain something by doing so, and as far as I could see, he stood to gain nothing (quite the reverse in many cases). Partly it was because, as mentioned above, I was afraid that I was being unduly influenced by his ex's email. And partly because, when you think the love of your life is dying, you are afraid that your mind is playing tricks on you: of course you would prefer to believe that they have made up their illness, because that would be preferable to them dying, so that is a reason to dismiss your suspicion that they aren't really ill.

So, fast forward to mid-2012. DD is 2.5 and DS is nearly a year old. For nearly 2 years, we have been living rent-free (or, rather, on DP's constant promise of paying rent) in a totally unsuitable and frankly dangerous-for-kids annex of the home of some lovely relatives of mine. I had not gone back to work after DD was born, and spent my days at home, in the middle of nowhere, with no car, no bank account, 2 small kids to look after, while DP goes out every single day for hospital treatment. All I would do with my life, every day, is feed the kids and take them out for walks. Almost every day I am expecting that we are going to have our no-frills wedding, and every time I hope that this time it will go ahead, but DP calls with some reason why it has had to be cancelled. And almost every day I am expecting that today, finally, after a zillion hiccups, our joint bank account will finally be sorted out and we can get access to DP's massive savings and repay my relatives the money we owe them - but this never happens (N.B. I am not mercenary, I didn't care about living the high life, I just wanted a normal life and not to be in debt to my relatives). Writing all this is making my chest constrict, and maybe you can imagine the enormous stress I was under. It was really difficult to cope with all this, but 'knowing' that DP had a far more difficult battle to fight (i.e. his illness) made me feel guilty for worrying about my own troubles.

Anyway, in mid-2012, DP's excuses and stories started to build up to the extent that they become really quite implausible, and DP himself was starting to behave more erratically, presumably with the stress of keeping all the lies going. Even so, it was only after a long conversation with one of my relatives that I started to confront the possibility that DP was lying about his illness. (An aside: by this point, everyone else in my family had worked out he was lying, but they never said anything about it to me. Either they felt awkward about it or they thought I had access to more information to support my belief in him. But the fact that they all seemed to believe him itself made me think he must be telling the truth, and made me feel guilty for doubting him.) I spoke to DP on the phone - he'd gone to the hospital (or rather pretended to) as usual - and I gently asked him if he was really ill, and that maybe the problem was psychological rather than physical. Immediately he admitted it, if 'admitted' is the right term (given that, as I'll explain, he had trouble distinguishing lies from reality) - he said something like, 'yes, maybe you're right'.

From here, it's quite difficult to explain. It has turned out not to be a case of him consciously and maliciously deciding to lie. He genuinely seemed to have come to believe his own lies. I went to the GP with him and he was referred for a mental health assessment, and diagnosed with dissociative disorder, depression, and anxiety. He had large gaps in his memory and seemed not very capable of distinguishing reality from the fantasy he had invented. Over the months and years since (yes, we are still together), it has turned out that some very awful things have happened to him, and that he has been lying about things since childhood as a way to make himself feel better about himself and more important than he believes he is (he basically believes he is worthless). I think that he has been lying so long that lying comes as naturally to him as telling the truth does to the rest of us, and so it is very difficult for him to stop: much of the time, the decision to lie isn't a conscious choice.

He genuinely struggles wiith this and tries his best to get better. He has taken all the help he has been offered in terms of counselling - which isn't very much, and in my non-professional opinion he hasn't been offered the right sort of thing (basically he sees a counsellor and talks about his past, whereas I think he should be having something like CBT that would focus on getting him to stop lying, which is the root of all our problems). When I realised that we were penniless and on benefits, I saw that I would need to go back to work. I am very highly qualified but work in an extremely competitive industry where jobs are hard to come by. We lived in a shitty council flat, on benefits, for a year while I worked every spare waking minute at trying to get back to work, and eventually I did get a job. Last autumn we moved out of the shitty council estate and into a privately rented house in a nicer area.

My family, understandably, want little to do with DP after all this came out. However, whereas people tended to assume that he'd just leave after he'd been rumbled, he has not. While I've been working, he has tirelessly been a full-time dad. He is a wonderful father: far more patient than me, he adores our children and fills their days with fun things: they have planted flowers in the garden together, learned to ride bikes, etc, and he is involved with their pre-school as a committee member. At the same time he keeps our home in order, does all our grocery shopping, cleans and does the washing, etc. His only 'me time' without the kids are a night in the pub once a week with some friends who know nothing about his strange history (he doesn't get drunk, and doesn't drink much in general), and playing sport once a week during the summer. I am not trying to paint a romantic picture of him here - what I am trying to do is make the point that, whilst the lying etc might make it easy to view him as a villain, he has done his utmost to do the right thing since the problem has been identified.

The problem, though, is that he does still lie sometimes. I can't trust him not to. Sometimes he will admit it out of the blue, without me having pressured him to tell the truth, and he will be full of remorse. But sometimes when he lies, I know he is lying, but he won't admit it - and maybe can't admit it. He is not getting the right sort of mental health help to stop this, and we can't afford private treatment at the moment. And I'm left feeling that I'm dealing with it alone ... I don't really discuss it with people, and about a year ago he admitted it to his mum (which was a big deal because his mum has been through hell for various reasons recently, so he'd put off telling her). I was so pleased when he told his mum because I thought I'd have someone to talk to about it, but it hasn't worked out like that. His mum said she just needed time to digest it, then she and I would have a proper talk. But it's never happened. In the year since she found out, she's visited various family members who needed her help with various things, but she still hasn't tried to get to grips with what DP has been doing. And whilst I konw it must be upsetting for her, it also makes me see that maybe this is why DP is the way he is - he certainly doesn't seem high up her list of priorities. I feel like I've just been left holding the baby, so to speak: I'm dealing with it alone.

I never tell anyone about this. When the lies came to light, I had various friends who believed that DP was seriously ill, so I did tell them the truth in order to put them right. I rarely see them and they don't ask me about DP, perhaps understandably (what would they say?!). Everyone else - e.g. people I work with - just thinks we are a normal couple. I feel a bit like I lead a double life.

And now, I don't know whether I want this any more. I'm so tired of it all. I will always love DP, and I think he is a wonderful father, but the head-over-heels aspect of my feelings for him have gone, and I don't know if they'll come back. It's like the person I loved never existed, and whilst in the early days I was desperate to get that person back, I've sort of given up now. I know he still lies, and I really don't want it to be my problem any more - I don't want to live like this, with the stress of not being able to trust him. But, at the same time, I sort of can't imagine life without him. The children adore him. I care deeply for him and want to help him get better - I think he deserves to get better, he certainly struggles so hard with everything. I don't know what I want.

Complicating my feelings is the thought that, even if I did want out, I don't know how to get out. We live in a very expensive part of the country, and if we broke up we would have to pay for 2 households on my salary. I'm nearly 40, and hoping to buy a house in a year, otherwise I'll be too old to get a mortgage. DP could work, but we'd have to pay for childcare in that case, so wouldn't necessarily be better off. DP has occasionally said that we're not a normal couple and that if I want he will move out and find somewhere alone (presumably a crappy council bedsit), but still come over every day and look after the children. This itself breaks my heart ... his self-esteem is so low that it wouldn't even enter his head to fight for the children to live with him. He believes he deserves so little.

I have sort of lost track of what I was even wanting to ask with this post. I guess I just want to tell someone my story so that maybe, in the discussion that follows (if anyone has read this far!) I might get some clarity to my feelings.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 05/11/2014 18:28

Where do you live that a single man can get a council flat inside of three months? That's impossible in almost every part of the country. He can rent a room while he gathers his wits to get himself sorted for a nice private rental. 3 months is insane.

GoodtoBetter · 05/11/2014 18:32

Don't give him three months! Tell him to go and stay with his mum until he find a job and a flat of his own. The longer he stats now the worse it will be for the children in the long run. And the more dangerous he becomes....and he IS dangerous. He lies about absolutelty everything and has no moralcompass. Youhave no idea what is going on in his head and what he is capable of.

socially · 05/11/2014 18:44

Given that he is already making threats to you, I imagine given another three months you'll find him utterly impossible to deal with.

He's got family. He can stay there.

You will regret giving him three months. One month at the absolute outside is more than reasonable.

HansieLove · 05/11/2014 20:02

I think three months is too long too. He might not even worry about it until 2.75 months. He sounds like a heavy weight hanging onto you.

Walkacrossthesand · 05/11/2014 20:16

Can I just clarify - onlygoth, when you said you were reviving this thread, are you the OP with a name change, or a new poster with your own situation which has similarities? People are assuming the former, and I'm not sure that's the case - in which case the backstory doesn't apply.

TheLyingOldBitchAndHerWardrobe · 05/11/2014 20:18

Onlygoth is the op, if you read the thread she explains her namechange.

temporaryusername · 05/11/2014 20:25

I don't know why he would get a council flat, not sure about that plan, but then I don't know what makes someone eligible. I wouldn't say three months because to him that will sound like never, ie. long enough to do nothing for now and kick the issue into the long grass. Sorry if I've missed this but does he still do childcare? If so, I'd change that now so that he is freed up to go on jobseekers allowance and to start going to interviews. That should also show him you are serious about the change.

temporaryusername · 05/11/2014 20:28

ps. I wouldn't think he could claim housing benefit for a second bedroom on the basis of children visiting, if they were resident possibly. I could be wrong, I'm sure someone will come on who knows, but as you say that is his problem to sort out OP, not yours.

Littleturkish · 05/11/2014 20:37

Is there a reason why he can't go and stay with his mum?

Is two weeks and then he has to go to his mum's a better option? It might actually be better for him to deal with if there is a shorter deadline as it will force him to address the needs that the new life he needs to live will demand of him.

theHowlatWooooooCorner · 05/11/2014 20:47

I really think you need to formalize everything via a solicitor.
When he tells you he's been to look at flats, it been told that he's ineligible for council flat/housing benefit/whatever, will you believe him?

theonlygothinthevillage · 05/11/2014 21:01

I think three months is too long too. He might not even worry about it until 2.75 months.

Yep, quite possibly. But that's not my problem. By giving him 3 months I'm satisfying myself that I'm being as generous and fair as possible (which he doesn't deserve, but my children love him and that's reason enough for me).

Walkacrossthesand I'm the OP!

Is there a reason why he can't go and stay with his mum?

Yes, he lied to his mum that he had bought her a house, so she gave up whatever accommodation she had and is sleeping in her sister's living room. She has had to go to the council to declare herself homeless.

theHowlat I will be talking this over with the NDVC, apparently they are able to offer legal advice. But what he might tell me about housing benefit etc is irrelevant, he has three months and that's it. Part of the reason I wanted to set a deadline is so that I wouldn't be reliant on him saying 'I'm going to be moving out on Tuesday ... oh, it's delayed, I'll move out on Wednesday instead ...' ad infinitum, which is totally his trademark.

Really appreciate your thoughts guys. Getting different perspectives is so helpful, and I've been opening up to people not only on here but IRL too. The kindness and support I've received in return has made me wish I had gone public with it ages ago.

mamadoc · 05/11/2014 21:35

Why 3 months though and not just one?

He will not be housed by the council and so he will have to rent somewhere and apply for housing benefit. That is not going to take a whole 3 months. I do think that Christmas is a consideration and it would be better for him to leave well before then ie beginning of December.

Are you still intending for him to do the childcare or did you get something else sorted? Because I can't see how it would work to get the police to remove him and then let him back in the next day to babysit or allow him to have keys.

I think the ripping off a plaster analogy is a good one. I think it will actually be easier and in fact safer for you and the kids to make a quick clean break than to have it dragging on in this uncertain way where he clearly still believes you are not really serious and are not actually going to make him leave.

I worry that throughout this notice period he will be under some stress and he clearly has poor and very abnormal coping strategies and he may behave unpredictably. He is making threats and being manipulative and it is hard to know what someone who clearly has such abnormal boundaries will do.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 05/11/2014 21:42

But goth, what if you get 3 months down the line and he says 'the council are lining up a flat for me, but they say it'll take another 2 weeks, so please can I stay that long? After all, I've got nowhere else to go and I'm looking after the kids anyway and it's not for long at all...' and then he just keeps repeating that? And then you find out that he never applied for a council flat at all? Honestly, I think you are going to wind up looking like the baddie (to him, at least, and if he can possibly arrange it, then to your kids as well) no matter what, so you might as well get it over with. There is no point in being nice to him, because he's not going to appreciate it one little bit anyway!

I appreciate that in the circumstances, he can't go and stay with his mum, but what about other family/friends? No, in fact, I take that back. It is not your problem where he goes! It is up to him. He's a grown man and he can look after himself.

mamadoc · 05/11/2014 21:47

It could in fact be to his advantage re: being housed if he declares himself homeless. That is the reality of the situation after all. I think the council has some obligation to help him although it is a priority points system and he would likely not be a priority. He needs to go to the council offices, state his position and ask for assistance.

It is good to see that you are willing to put the ball in his court and have stopped feeling you need to look after him. That is really quite different from what you were saying at the start of this thread and shows how far you have come.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 05/11/2014 21:50

If he's going to apply for jobs/go on Jobseekers' Allowance, surely he cannot do the childcare? He needs the time free to go to interviews and if he gets a job, then you'll need alternative childcare anyway.

How are you feeling? Have you got any RL support around you? You're doing really well, just hang in there and stay tough! You are doing the right thing here and his reaction should show you that.

CinnabarRed · 05/11/2014 23:17

Oh God. His poor, poor mother.

FunkyBoldRibena · 05/11/2014 23:26

So this sociopathic, manipulative, liar doesnt want to lose control of his kids, has already threatened you and you think he will skip out the door merrily in 12 weeks time?

Yeah. Ok. No worries. That sounds fine.

temporaryusername · 05/11/2014 23:38

I'm concerned that saying 3 months won't mean the same to him as it does to you. You mean that he must go but will have 3 months to sort it out. He may well interpret it as, no immediate threat, leave it at least 2 months before doing anything and hope it has all gone away. As someone said, he could get even more difficult in the meantime. When it comes to fair and generous notice, one month is the same as three really, because rentals don't come up three months in advance on the whole. What can he do in three months that he can't do in a month? I'd also make it clear that a month is the longest time, and that you expect him to be taking action sooner. He is bound to lie and say he has done all kinds of things he hasn't, so you're right about the deadline - at some point you're probably going to have to let him sink or swim or he'll come up with something forever. I just think a shorter deadline would be more meaningful but still give him time to sort things, which is generous of you. If his mum has had to declare herself homeless, he knows that he may have to do the same.

QuintsBombWithAWiew · 05/11/2014 23:40

I have read all this in one sitting and I really feel for you.

I suspect you now understand why his ex fled with the children.

I know it is your house and your tenancy, but is there no way you can flee any nearer your place of work?

Do you really think he will cooperate with you on caring for your children in a decent manner and live elsewhere?

temporaryusername · 05/11/2014 23:51

OP, sorry if there is a reason I've missed, but Quints has a good point. Do you think if you gave notice to your landlord and found somewhere else just for you and the children, it would be easier to make him move. Stopping him trying to follow you might be easier than getting him out of where he is. Although, as you've said, you could call the police so he doesn't have the option to stay.

smillassenseofsnow · 06/11/2014 00:12

I'm with FunkyBoldRibena here.

It's great that you're finally getting into gear but this is still far too relaxed. He's already making threats. Saying you won't survive without him is especially horrifying coming from his lips.

I'm not sure why you're still so convinced he should even be having unsupervised contact with the children once he moves out.

Wake up OP.

CinnabarRed · 06/11/2014 06:30

I can't quite get past what he did to his mother.

I could just - just - manage to understand if he had genuinely been in the process of buying her a house but it somehow fell through and he couldn't face telling her. It would still be unforgivable but I could understand.

But to deliberately create and then sustain the lie that has left an elderly lady homeless is cruel beyond imagining.

If she had known about his previous lies, maybe she would have protected herself. The decision in 2012 to keep his lies secret from friends and family has been devastating for her.

He did this to his mother. How can he not do this to his children?

Littleturkish · 06/11/2014 06:36

I was worried you would say that about his mother. How terrible.

Ok, three months is still too long, but if that's what you're going to do, it's probably worth laying ground rules in that time.

Do you have a six month option release in your rental contract when you could look for somewhere closer work?

BalloonSlayer · 06/11/2014 06:36

Feel speechless about his poor Mum.

Sad
TheLyingOldBitchAndHerWardrobe · 06/11/2014 06:39

He INTENTIONALLY mad his mother homeless. Why on earth do you feel you need to give him any notice at all? Honestly.

'You have lied to me throughout our entire relationship. I now see you for what you are, I do not owe you anything, you have until the end of the day to gather your things and get out of my house or I am calling the police'.

And then stick to it.

He is a professional liar and con artist. He's not ill, he doesn't deserve your sympathy, he has ruined your life and that of your children. Get him away from you.

Swipe left for the next trending thread