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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can't work out how I feel about my bizarre relationship (long, sorry)

381 replies

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 14:00

Have changed my name for this post. I don't really know where to start with this, and I fear it could turn out to be far too long, so will try to keep it as concise as possible (which isn't very). Apologies in advance if I leave out too many details.

Me and DP have been together since 2005. We have DD and DS, aged 4 and nearly 3. I fell head over heels for DP very shortly after meeting him: it really seemed we were soul mates, and I was sincerely convinced for many years that it was very, very rare for a couple to love each other as much as we loved each other.

Shortly after meeting DP, I received an email from someone I didn't know, warning me that DP was a liar and that I should check everything. It was a strange email in that there was info in there that could only have come from someone who had been spying on our instant messenger conversations and emails. To cut a long story short, it turned out to be from DP's ex-girlfriend, who somehow had gained access to his emails etc. She had used a fake name to send me the email. All in all, she hadn't given me any reason to believe she was a reliable source of information, and I dismissed her (after an angsty conversation with DP).

Over the next 6.5 years, I could never shake the sense that DP was lying to me - about everything. This seemed so implausible to me at the time - after all, who (outside of a soap opera) would lie about everything? - that I dismissed it, and attributed this feeling to the fact that DP's ex had written me that strange email near the start of our relationship. We went on to live together, to get engaged, and to have DD and DS.

To cut a very long story short(ish), it turned out that he was indeed lying to me about literally everything. The most shocking lie was pretending to be terminally ill for several years starting from around the time DD was conceived in early 2009 - even going as far to get a scar tattooed on. Aside from that, he would lie about our finances (I no longer had a bank account (because he saw to it, I later realised) and he pretended he was wealthy when in fact we were on benefits), his intentions to marry me (he 'made' literally hundreds of appointments for us to have a no-frills reg office wedding, all of which were cancelled due to unforeseen aspects of his 'treatment' - it later emerged that he was still married to his ex wife), and he borrowed £1000s from my family despite having no way of repaying them.

Throughout all this, I suspected him constantly, but dismissed my suspicions for various reasons. Partly it was because the lies simply didn't make sense: I was working on the assumption that if someone lies to you, it's because they stand to gain something by doing so, and as far as I could see, he stood to gain nothing (quite the reverse in many cases). Partly it was because, as mentioned above, I was afraid that I was being unduly influenced by his ex's email. And partly because, when you think the love of your life is dying, you are afraid that your mind is playing tricks on you: of course you would prefer to believe that they have made up their illness, because that would be preferable to them dying, so that is a reason to dismiss your suspicion that they aren't really ill.

So, fast forward to mid-2012. DD is 2.5 and DS is nearly a year old. For nearly 2 years, we have been living rent-free (or, rather, on DP's constant promise of paying rent) in a totally unsuitable and frankly dangerous-for-kids annex of the home of some lovely relatives of mine. I had not gone back to work after DD was born, and spent my days at home, in the middle of nowhere, with no car, no bank account, 2 small kids to look after, while DP goes out every single day for hospital treatment. All I would do with my life, every day, is feed the kids and take them out for walks. Almost every day I am expecting that we are going to have our no-frills wedding, and every time I hope that this time it will go ahead, but DP calls with some reason why it has had to be cancelled. And almost every day I am expecting that today, finally, after a zillion hiccups, our joint bank account will finally be sorted out and we can get access to DP's massive savings and repay my relatives the money we owe them - but this never happens (N.B. I am not mercenary, I didn't care about living the high life, I just wanted a normal life and not to be in debt to my relatives). Writing all this is making my chest constrict, and maybe you can imagine the enormous stress I was under. It was really difficult to cope with all this, but 'knowing' that DP had a far more difficult battle to fight (i.e. his illness) made me feel guilty for worrying about my own troubles.

Anyway, in mid-2012, DP's excuses and stories started to build up to the extent that they become really quite implausible, and DP himself was starting to behave more erratically, presumably with the stress of keeping all the lies going. Even so, it was only after a long conversation with one of my relatives that I started to confront the possibility that DP was lying about his illness. (An aside: by this point, everyone else in my family had worked out he was lying, but they never said anything about it to me. Either they felt awkward about it or they thought I had access to more information to support my belief in him. But the fact that they all seemed to believe him itself made me think he must be telling the truth, and made me feel guilty for doubting him.) I spoke to DP on the phone - he'd gone to the hospital (or rather pretended to) as usual - and I gently asked him if he was really ill, and that maybe the problem was psychological rather than physical. Immediately he admitted it, if 'admitted' is the right term (given that, as I'll explain, he had trouble distinguishing lies from reality) - he said something like, 'yes, maybe you're right'.

From here, it's quite difficult to explain. It has turned out not to be a case of him consciously and maliciously deciding to lie. He genuinely seemed to have come to believe his own lies. I went to the GP with him and he was referred for a mental health assessment, and diagnosed with dissociative disorder, depression, and anxiety. He had large gaps in his memory and seemed not very capable of distinguishing reality from the fantasy he had invented. Over the months and years since (yes, we are still together), it has turned out that some very awful things have happened to him, and that he has been lying about things since childhood as a way to make himself feel better about himself and more important than he believes he is (he basically believes he is worthless). I think that he has been lying so long that lying comes as naturally to him as telling the truth does to the rest of us, and so it is very difficult for him to stop: much of the time, the decision to lie isn't a conscious choice.

He genuinely struggles wiith this and tries his best to get better. He has taken all the help he has been offered in terms of counselling - which isn't very much, and in my non-professional opinion he hasn't been offered the right sort of thing (basically he sees a counsellor and talks about his past, whereas I think he should be having something like CBT that would focus on getting him to stop lying, which is the root of all our problems). When I realised that we were penniless and on benefits, I saw that I would need to go back to work. I am very highly qualified but work in an extremely competitive industry where jobs are hard to come by. We lived in a shitty council flat, on benefits, for a year while I worked every spare waking minute at trying to get back to work, and eventually I did get a job. Last autumn we moved out of the shitty council estate and into a privately rented house in a nicer area.

My family, understandably, want little to do with DP after all this came out. However, whereas people tended to assume that he'd just leave after he'd been rumbled, he has not. While I've been working, he has tirelessly been a full-time dad. He is a wonderful father: far more patient than me, he adores our children and fills their days with fun things: they have planted flowers in the garden together, learned to ride bikes, etc, and he is involved with their pre-school as a committee member. At the same time he keeps our home in order, does all our grocery shopping, cleans and does the washing, etc. His only 'me time' without the kids are a night in the pub once a week with some friends who know nothing about his strange history (he doesn't get drunk, and doesn't drink much in general), and playing sport once a week during the summer. I am not trying to paint a romantic picture of him here - what I am trying to do is make the point that, whilst the lying etc might make it easy to view him as a villain, he has done his utmost to do the right thing since the problem has been identified.

The problem, though, is that he does still lie sometimes. I can't trust him not to. Sometimes he will admit it out of the blue, without me having pressured him to tell the truth, and he will be full of remorse. But sometimes when he lies, I know he is lying, but he won't admit it - and maybe can't admit it. He is not getting the right sort of mental health help to stop this, and we can't afford private treatment at the moment. And I'm left feeling that I'm dealing with it alone ... I don't really discuss it with people, and about a year ago he admitted it to his mum (which was a big deal because his mum has been through hell for various reasons recently, so he'd put off telling her). I was so pleased when he told his mum because I thought I'd have someone to talk to about it, but it hasn't worked out like that. His mum said she just needed time to digest it, then she and I would have a proper talk. But it's never happened. In the year since she found out, she's visited various family members who needed her help with various things, but she still hasn't tried to get to grips with what DP has been doing. And whilst I konw it must be upsetting for her, it also makes me see that maybe this is why DP is the way he is - he certainly doesn't seem high up her list of priorities. I feel like I've just been left holding the baby, so to speak: I'm dealing with it alone.

I never tell anyone about this. When the lies came to light, I had various friends who believed that DP was seriously ill, so I did tell them the truth in order to put them right. I rarely see them and they don't ask me about DP, perhaps understandably (what would they say?!). Everyone else - e.g. people I work with - just thinks we are a normal couple. I feel a bit like I lead a double life.

And now, I don't know whether I want this any more. I'm so tired of it all. I will always love DP, and I think he is a wonderful father, but the head-over-heels aspect of my feelings for him have gone, and I don't know if they'll come back. It's like the person I loved never existed, and whilst in the early days I was desperate to get that person back, I've sort of given up now. I know he still lies, and I really don't want it to be my problem any more - I don't want to live like this, with the stress of not being able to trust him. But, at the same time, I sort of can't imagine life without him. The children adore him. I care deeply for him and want to help him get better - I think he deserves to get better, he certainly struggles so hard with everything. I don't know what I want.

Complicating my feelings is the thought that, even if I did want out, I don't know how to get out. We live in a very expensive part of the country, and if we broke up we would have to pay for 2 households on my salary. I'm nearly 40, and hoping to buy a house in a year, otherwise I'll be too old to get a mortgage. DP could work, but we'd have to pay for childcare in that case, so wouldn't necessarily be better off. DP has occasionally said that we're not a normal couple and that if I want he will move out and find somewhere alone (presumably a crappy council bedsit), but still come over every day and look after the children. This itself breaks my heart ... his self-esteem is so low that it wouldn't even enter his head to fight for the children to live with him. He believes he deserves so little.

I have sort of lost track of what I was even wanting to ask with this post. I guess I just want to tell someone my story so that maybe, in the discussion that follows (if anyone has read this far!) I might get some clarity to my feelings.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 29/10/2014 22:00

I think you need to realise that:

  • you starting a new job 2 months ago
  • you moving to a new house very recently, taking out a new tenant agreement
  • you catching him out with the lying again very recently

. . . are unlikely to be co-incidental.

He almost certainly stopped being so careful about hiding the lies because he thinks you are stuck and won't throw him out. He thinks he has got you over a barrel. Don't let him be right.

JuxtheDaemonVampire · 29/10/2014 22:46

Can an au pair not be a neice or more distant relative who is staying with you to learn English? My family do that sort of thing all the time; though they are actual relatives over here to learn English, rather than for-the-benefit-of-the-LL-relatives. But still.....

Is there some sort of insurance clause which could preclude people who are not blood relatives or something?

I do think you will do better getting ex out of there and taking whatever financial/childcare hit that brings, than continuing to have him there in sole charge, no matter how much he loves his children. He is like a loose cannon and you cannot be easy about the effect a confirmed liar is likely to have on young children and the development of their understanding of the world around them.

Charley50 · 29/10/2014 22:47

You keep giving reasons why he should keep looking after your children but they are bollocks. No landlord would know if you have a Childminder in the house. Your children can go out the house to a Childminder, like millions of other children. If you are scared of what he will do, and as a pp said, you have reason to be, get police involved and locks changed etc. I don't get how, after all he has said and done, you want him looking after the children. You are putting him before them, just to save his feelings and a few quid. He could be telling them all sorts of shit thAt will fuck with their heads, and you are facilitating that.

FunkyBoldRibena · 29/10/2014 22:54

Getting an au pair and being kicked out of the house could be a good move, as it would mean you could move closer to work.

Everything seems to come before you and your kids being free of this man. As you said in your title, bizarre. Totally bizarre.

1FluffyJumper · 29/10/2014 23:43

The landlords insurance will be void I think if non family reside in the house. What about a nanny share at someone else's house?

snowiswhite · 30/10/2014 06:54

I continue to be grateful for supportive comments, but I'm going to stop commenting here, at least for the moment. An unfortunate aspect of MN discussions is that some posters turn nasty and insulting if the OP doesn't do as they suggest. That's happening here now, and is exactly the behaviour I've tried to get away from by ending my relationship.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 30/10/2014 07:17

You won't be able to have an au pair if it's all day childcare anyway, there are limits on what they can do. Do you have any unemployed friends who would do it under the table? It's technically illegal mind you. What you need are childminders who will have them in their home and who will do extra long days. And they are rare! But you could start asking around. Also maybe look at nurseries near your work? That would possibly be easier as they would be spending part of that 8-8 day in the car with you. A bit shitty for the kids but needs must, and better than being left with their father.
You absolutely have to stop him from looking after them. Maybe you can do that this week but you need to do it.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 30/10/2014 07:18

I don't see anything nasty or insulting here?

mamadoc · 30/10/2014 08:16

Ok. Good luck. Keep safe

FunkyBoldRibena · 30/10/2014 08:19

It's not nasty or insulting to point out that everything seems to come before getting your kids and yourself safe from this man.

It's your life and you make the decisions that affect you and your kids. Not sure what you want people to say when so many people are screaming 'get the fuck away from him' at you.

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 30/10/2014 08:27

I'm sorry you feel the thread is going that way...if you could see it from outside perspective, I think at the heart of it there is an overwhelming sense of worry for you and your children based on all the facts you've given about your ex-DP. Please take care. Thanks

ICanTotallyDance · 30/10/2014 09:28

snowiswhite I understand how you may be feeling overwhelmed. You have said you have stopped commenting, but hopefully you are still reading the comments and see this.

I really hope in a few months time we see an update/thread from you telling us about how great your life is. I am wishing you all the best in your tricky situation and I hope you find some sensible advice both here and in "real life."

Take care Flowers

HowDidThatWorkOut · 30/10/2014 10:03

snowiswhite I think it's probably a good idea for you to leave the thread too. You have lots to think about. I agree that some posters are a bit much. I wonder if they speak to people like that in real life? I find some posts on this thread unkind and aggressive Confused It's why I wish there were an 'ignore poster' function on MN.

Good luck for the future. It will take time but I'm sure you will work it out. Thanks

socially · 30/10/2014 10:54

I agree snowwhite

I think you have a lot to be getting your head around. You have come so far, don't forget that.

Stay strong x

socially · 30/10/2014 10:56

Funky having posters screaming "get the fuck away from him" is utterly unhelpful when you're in the midst of everything.

I think that is the sort of thing the OP is referring to.

snowiswhite · 30/10/2014 11:18

Ok just one last post before I go - what I'm finding unhelpful is the continued 'Get away from him! What's wrong with you? Don't you care about your kids? Why are you so stupid?' sorts of posts. I really do understand the sentiment, but the truth is that I have not stopped doing RL investigations into how I can make the practicalities work, and being berated for not going fast enough is unhelpful. I started this thread to get perspective and advice, and I've got that and am really grateful for it, but it has got to the stage now where I feel under pressure to justify my decisions, and also to convince people that my kids are sufficiently high on my list of priorities. Ex-P has never stopped picking holes in my parenting ever since our first DC was born, and having got rid of him I'm not going to volunteer to get beaten with the same stick here (I do know that's not the intention of anyone here, but I hope you can see this from my point of view - I am constantly afraid that I'm a terrible mother and it's not helpful to have that reinforced here, however well-intentioned people may be).

Thanks again everyone - I wanted to clarify this point because I didn't want anyone to think I had flounced off in a strop, or that I was being unreasonably sensitive.

I will come back and post again when I have something to report, and I hope that it will be positive news!

OP posts:
SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 30/10/2014 11:20

Take care, snowiswhite. Wishing you all the best.

theonlygothinthevillage · 30/10/2014 11:22

This is OP.

Just before I go, I want to out myself by posting with my usual username. I did this accidentally yesterday and sent a panicky email to MNHQ asking them to change it, but fuck it. Everyone who has said that this is not an issue about which I hvae to keep secret is right - it's him who wanted it all kept secret, not me. I hope that anyone reading this thread in a similar situation will get the message that being abused is not something that the abuser needs to be secretive or ashamed about.

CiderwithBuda · 30/10/2014 11:25

Best of luck. I really hope this thread and the reactions on it have helped you see how bad and dangerous the situation is. You seemed to be sort of stuck in the headlights I suppose. I'm sure it has been exhausting trying to deal with it all and figure out what is true and what isn't.

Good luck and please be careful. If he is capable of lying to everyone the way he has God only knows what else he is capable of.

Roussette · 30/10/2014 11:29

It is a big step to post on a public forum about a problem like this. After all, we are not walking in your shoes, we just don't know what it's like and I wish you luck in sorting everything out.

GoodtoBetter · 30/10/2014 12:40

Good luck, OP. Be careful, he sounds very scary and unpredictable. Wishing you all the very best.

xx

GarlicGhoul · 30/10/2014 13:56

Everyone who has said that this is not an issue about which I hvae to keep secret is right

This is brilliant Flowers Well done - it's a big step to make that choice and act on it! Partners who surround us with lies & half-truths; who bring us into a dangerous world of their creation; do strange things to our minds and our personalities. It's hard enough to recognise what's happened. Taking the first few steps 'through the mirror' feels enormous. Funnily enough, life gets easier to understand as soon as we're making those steps - I hope you'll walk with increasing confidence, and find support here when you call for it.

JuxtheDaemonVampire · 30/10/2014 14:05

Good luck. Hope it all works out. Do keep posting as and when, and I'm sorry you're find the thread more of a stick to be beaten with atm.

Charley50 · 30/10/2014 14:17

Sorry if mine was one of the harsh responses and best of luck for getting through this traumatic situation.

springydaffs · 30/10/2014 15:05

Look, I don't care that ex has criticised you all along (joing the club, plenty of us in the abusive relationship survivor group). In case you get to read this when you get back -

...well-meaning 'get him away from your DCs now' comments given that that simply isn't feasible I can't help feeling affronted by this. As we speak, educated professionals are risking life and limb, and the lives of their families eg young children, by paying through the nose to get into a rickety boat to safety and freedom, i just can't see that making changes here, in the safe west, is 'not feasible'. Let's get some perspective here.

I am also narked at posters comments that facing life as a single parent is akin to going into a refugee camp, the end of civilisation as we know it. ffs. For plenty of us this is our life. We live in the cossetted west and although it isn't perfect we are hideously rich in comparison to the majority of the world in similar - and not similar - circumstances.

Please. OP you have been shacked up with a seriously disordered and frightening individual. You want out. So get out! You may want to preserve certain comforts but you are unbelievably privileged to be in the position to even consider preserving said comforts. As it is, I don't think you have that privilege in this instance . You have to get out, run, head for the hills, not knowing what is ahead. It won't be the end of the world because you live in the west. It may be a comedown but hey.