Would anyone consider taking him back?

[parisinspring]

I am so confused and wanted to get some advice from someone outside of the situation on what I should do.

I was in a long term relationship with a man who was was kind, affectionate, generous, funny, gentle, giving, supportive. He was my best friend and we had a wonderful romantic life. We were together for three years, living together for two.

He was so supportive to me in the last year when I lost my job and took 8 months to find a new one and supported me financially and emotionally through. He was also a very loving stepfather to my two children (now 8 and 10). He had his own children (now 7 and 9) who are fantastic, and I loved them as did my kids.

The only problem was his ex wife. My ex partner always put her first. He kept saying he could not risk losing his children, but it got to the point of being ridiculous and I never really said anything because I didn't want him to have to choose between me and his kids - which was how he saw it.

The ex wife lived with her new husband (who she left my ex partner for) but yet she made our lives as miserable as possible. Constantly telling my ex that he had made his children feel replaced by living with me and my kids and laying guilt on him and constantly letting us live under the threat of not being able to see the kids.

She made it impossible for us to ever go out as a couple by ensuring we had the kids every weekend and also ensuring it was not acceptable for us to get a babysitter. Things like this made it really hard for us to enjoy our lives like normal people.

It culminated in the end when she decided one of her kids was sad because she thought he had been replaced by my kids in their fathers affection (even thought he bent over backwards to make his kids feel special to the point where he favouritised them and caused arguments) and she banned her kids from seeing mine.

This went on for two months (during which time he went every weekend with his kids to his parents house) and it put a lot of strain between us.

I told him eventually that it couldn't go on like this and that he was going to have to deal with it. He told me he loved me and was going to "have it out with her" and when he came back he was crying, said it was hopeless and told me he was sorry but it was over.

He packed his bags the next morning and left. He wouldn't talk about it, he had just made his mind up. He was cold after that and really refused contact with me for a very long time because he needed time and space to "get over it".

This happened 11 months ago and I have hardly seen or spoken to him since.

It was really painful for me and my kids, and his kids too who I hear were hit very hard by it too and I hear that his kids still ask for us and my kids still constantly ask for his. He's never let them see each other. He thought it was easier to make a clean break.

Without making this too long, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through and would not wish it on my worst enemy.

He was also devastated and I have heard from many people he was crying for months and didn't go out and even needed time off work and was signed off with depression. He's not met anyone else or moved on at all and neither have I.

He is now back in contact and is saying how sorry he is and that he has been in counselling and realising he should have stood up to his ex wife and put me first and he says he has never loved anyone the way he loves me and would do anything for another chance. He says he want to marry me.

I still love him, but I don't now where to begin with how complicated this decision is.

There are kids to think of, so many bridges were burned (my family and friends hate him because of what he did), and then there's all the trust gone and how much he hurt me.

I am torn between wanting him back so much and having no idea how to make this work even if I wanted to. It's not like there is a re-set button.

Is there a way back or is it better to forget and try and move on?

Billynomates I have to say I tend to think like you. I think you see things generally similarly to the way I do which is loving someone as a whole, accepting flaws, accepting mistakes, trying to move on and make the best. Believing if you truly love someone it's worth it.

I just worry I think if me being so accommodating and so understanding that got me into this to begin with. Maybe I enabled the whole thing to escalate to this level and if I'd had an element of the tougher view some of the other women here then maybe it would have protected me a bit more.

Some of this is going to enrage some of the women here and paint him in a really bad light, but it was never just this issue. From day one, I let things go that I shouldn't have.

When we were first dating I let him do it in secret to not make her angry or disappoint his parents who would think it was too soon. All my friends knew we were a couple but only a select few of his etc.

When I wanted a baby and he didn't (he was scared I would leave him and he would be in the same situation) I gave that up even though it was really important to me.

The proposal I got a few months before all this was done in secret, so he could find "the right time" to tell his parents and ex wife.

We were actually together 6 months before he changed his Facebook status to "In A Relationship" even though his wife was living with someone else???!!!!

With hindsight, it was totally NUTS and I should have had much better boundaries and firmer expectations.

It was like on a daily basis he was this amazing and wonderful and lovely man who made me so, so happy - but he was also making me less important than I should have been in my own life.

I just think he was very selfish in a lot of ways. It was selfish the way he was IN the relationship and the manner he chose to exit it was also selfish.

The problem was really that on a day to day basis he could not do enough for me. He would literally get up at midnight and drive to 24 hour tesco if I had my period and was craving chocolate. He would drive out of his way 25 minutes every morning to save me getting a bus to work. He was never too tired if I needed him or the kids did. He did very little for himself and spent no money on himself. He worked hard.

But I think all of that masked the fact that he was very selfish. It's hard to see someone is selfish if they act the opposite of selfish and even he would be shocked to death to be called selfish. He sees himself as selfless!

This is maybe a horrible thing to say, but maybe really weak people who care desperately about what other people think somehow "work" with people like her. I mean, maybe if he'd been scared of me like he is of her he'd not have treated me like shit? He'd not DARE ever treat her like that and I believe that is independent of the children.

I'm wondering if I thought more like some of the harsher people I'd not be in the situation I find myself in?

I'm not saying never to it. I hope there is hope (we have talked a lot today back and forth over email) and I want to communicate with him maybe a lot of the things I have expressed on this thread and see what he is willing or able to change. But I'm not going back unless those things ARE changed. Not with just the promise of them.

Billy love, you have spoken much sense on this thread, but about 'luck' and your H you have not.

The fact that you forgave him means fuck all, the fact that you loved him means fuck all. You've internalised HIS issues and that is idiotic tbh, because if and when he fucks up again, you will think that you have failed.

What happens or doesn't happen wrt your H and money is completely out of your control here.

Just as this twat and his revolting ex. He's had years to stand up for himself, but won't. He won't stand up for anyone or anything.

The reason Billy you're not living under a bridge in a cardboard box is that you removed the control from your H. He can't be trusted, you resent him for it, but you've made your bed so must lie in it. Or your investment is lost and was all for nothing.

What this man did to our OP was revolting, he literally vanished from her life without any discussion. Cut her dead. Without substantial change, including putting the ex well and truly in her place, parisinspring shouldn't give this guy the time of day.

Paris - I have been reading your thread all day but I have been unable to post, I have caught up on the last few posts just now.

I agree that MN is very 'LTB' minded, but do you know why? We've been there, we've done that - we've got the t-shirt. We see the signs, we've heard it all before, we know the script. I bet you several of the regular MNers could have told you 80% of what you would type on this thread after reading your first post. As much as we all think we are so unique we really, really aren't. Sadly, this 'knowing what's to come' comes from experience.

it is not easy to love someone so so so much & yet know that you shouldn't be in a relationship with them. To know that on one hand they are really really lovely, kind, gentle, caring people but know that they have faults, which are just too big, too important to ignore. I have been there, I have done that. I loved him. A lot. He said he loved me, a lot. he showed that in a million ways - but no matter what, when it came down to it, being in a relationship with him wasn't good for me (different reasons than for you, but the same end result) and I'm sorry to say - this one isn't good for you. I know how much it hurts to have to face that, I know how hard it is to say 'No' when they want to be with you and your heart wants the same - badly. How you just want to be with them, hold them and have your 'happily ever after' with them. But sometimes, love really isn't enough, and you have to pull up your Big Girls Pants and do the right thing. You know without a shadow of a doubt what the right thing is, you just don't want to do it :(

I don't need to tell you why it would be a bad idea, even to be his friend, you already know it. Read your own posts.

Be strong - you know the answer to this one.

Paris you're the one who knows him, not us.

But to me he sounds more broken than selfish.

I always make very clear decisions on things and always go with my gut and never ask advice. I just instinctively know what to do.

Not so now!

I actually find my own opinion changing back and forth when people make certain points. TooMuch's post seemed completely true to me, then Meerka posted and I thought "yes he is broken" and felt all loving again.

How do you work out what you really think and feel?

He might be broken, but frankly, if he is 'broken' it was when he was a child. It's not a wee 'crack' it's a huge smash.

Look at all the issues that were there when you first started seeing him.

This is not something that can be fixed by 'loving him'. The man is beyond repair. Loving him will not be enough. Any attempt to 'fix' this man will be the 'breaking' of you, and even more importantly, your children.

He has already damaged them - how much more damage will you allow him to do - all in the name of love?

Bends over backwards to keep everyone happy... except you, who he can treat callously beyond all measure. And your children.

Can't bear to be thought of badly by ANYONE... except you, whose feelings simply didn't touch him at all when it mattered. Ditto those of your children.

My reply would be - call me when you've got a defined contact order, have maintenance adjusted to reflect the times you have them, and have emailed your ex to say 1. Contact me by email only and only about the children, as I have no wish for you to do any more damage in my life and 2. By the way - FUCK OFF.

Aaaand then get on with your life, because you won't be hearing from him again.

Reading through this, my immediate thought was that something else happened or was said prior to your break up i.e. something else from the ex wife and/or their kids.

If she was threatening him with no contact with the kids, then it would have been relatively simple for him to fill in the forms and take it to court. That's why I think something else happened or was said. Could she have, for example, claimed a higher rate of maintenance if she wanted (and threatened him with that?) Were the kids perhaps not as happy with the set up coming over to your family, than perhaps you were aware (and she made that plain to him?0 Do you know for a fact that she left him for another man? Did he ever have any affairs himself during the marriage?

The fact that she has such a hold over him and what ever happened sent him into an 11 month spiral of depression (and no contact,) indicates that there was a big problem. And we can never know what goes on/ went on in other people's marriages. I'd say dig deeper if you do want to get back with him. My personal opinion would be to get rid. If he thought so little of you as to dump you (and your kids) and clear off for 11 months, then that tells you all you need to know.

what toomuch says, it's not a wee crack, it's a huge smach.

Maybe it would help to put your feelings on one side and look at the whole thing pragmatically.

1. you love him. He loves you, as far as he is able.

2. He behaved very badly and hurt you and your children.

3. what are the chances he'd do that again? as he is now?

4. can he be trusted at some point to act differently? Evidence of that?

you do love him. You wouldn't be so angry if you didn't. But I think you need your head here as well as your heart. In the balance is him v your own life and your children's.

Hmmm....not sure I agree with some of that TooMuch. I definitely don't believe anyone is broken beyond repair. I think anyone with the right attitude, some courage, therapy and support can get over their issues and dysfunctional behaviours to come out better and stronger if they are motivated to do it.

I also don't think it's about allowing him to do more damage, it's more about working out whether I have evidence to believe that a life with him (and his children) is better than a life without them for me and my kids.

And that depend on whether he can get over these issues, and whether I can get over what's happened. If we could both do that, and there was potential for a fresh start I can't honestly see any way my life and my kids like would not be better WITH him that without.

It's not as easy as moving on and replacing with someone else. Who's to say that I never love anyone again the same way that makes me so happy day to day? or that I love someone else who has an affair or hits me or dies or isn't good with my kids? Or who's kids don't get on with mine?

It's more trying to work out whether I think he can get over his issues and is willing to work to do that, whether he can prove he will, whether I can get past the pain he caused instead of constantly worrying or never getting the trust back etc. and if he loves me as much as I love him. Maybe to answer those questions properly talking to him is the only way?

Pinkbaloon, no the point was he would never take her to court because he wanted to be "amicable"..laughable I know

Meerka, those sorts of questions are a great way to start, maybe I will write out a list of what all of them are and start working through it.

I am just wondering if you are as soft with him, as he is with his ex. Does that not make you just as weak and pathetic as he is?

In fact, you are so soft and forgiving, that you are the only woman he could possibly be with, as you are his enabler... I dont mean to be harsh, but that is how it seems to me.

paris ...

I think anyone with the right attitude, some courage, therapy and support can get over their issues and dysfunctional behaviours to come out better and stronger if they are motivated to do it.

Sometimes that's true. But I'm afraid that isn't always true. Sometimes it is too painful to face the ulcers that cause the smash. Sometimes no matter how much someone tries .. they fail. Sometimes the healing can only ever be partial.

Sorry. But I think you have to face all possibilities. I say this realising that he's actually a very nice man in most ways. But it's possible that he might not be able to heal, just as, well, maybe he can. But you'd need to see concrete evidence of it in terms of how he's behaving.

OP, have you ever considered he is still in love with his ex? He kept you secret for fear of finally closing the door with her, I know you say she is with someone but that doesn't mean he didn't harbour hopes of getting back with her.

Quint, you're 100% right I am an enabler.

It wasn't that I was weak or scared of upsetting him at all.

I just thought "this man worships the ground I walk on and I have him at my beck and call, must make a mental note not to take advantage of that".

He had a tendency to blindly agree with me if I got angry, and I didn't want blind agreement, I wanted to know what he really felt or thought so I tried to let him do things his own way in his own time.

I was gentle with him (although i have never been with anyone else) because I was trying not to bully him.

He was just as soft with me...we just had a nice soft and gentle way with each other, no raised voices, always just talked and reasoned and tried hard to see the others opinion.

My mistake was not drawing a line in the sand with certain things that should have been unacceptable.

That might have been his story to you i.e. don't want to take her to court because I want it to be amicable etc. But it could be that he knows that by taking it to court, it could trigger something else from her, for example, she'll ask for increased maintenance payments that she's entitled to (that he can't afford?) / spill a few secrets to the kids/ spill a few secrets to you etc. Thats why I was asking about the finances and whether or not he had any affairs too, or has anything else to hide (perhaps trying to get back with her at bad stages of your relationship?) They are all possibilities. I'd actually say that unless you talk to the ex wife, you'll never actually see the full picture. An 11 month absence and spiral into depression sounds like a reaction to something big.

I have actually been here before with my ex (and his ex wife.) There's always far more to the picture than they (the men) will actually tell you. And unfortunately, you are stuck with the ex wife for as long as you are with him. So, if you don't want her in your life, and he won't do anything about her, you only have one option!

"this man worships the ground I walk on and I have him at my beck and call, must make a mental note not to take advantage of that".

I am not sure how you concluded that, based on his actions (as opposed to his words), as it seem rather that you and him together was at the beck and call of his ex.

Hansel...I thought that was totally impossible from the start of this. He didn't at all act like it. 11 months on from there and anything is possible. I don't think he is in love with her, I don't think he finds her physically attractive...but then I didn't think he'd walk out on us either so I am willing to admit we don't always know.

I was going through his emails etc after he left though looking for clues and found one he'd sent a few months earlier to a friend that said he was so much happier with me than he had ever been with her, that we were so compatible, that he loved me to bits etc.

That might have been one of your first mistakes, you Big Mistake is in thinking you can 'fix' someone else. You can't, no one can.

IF he can be 'fixed', he has to do it and frankly, given he's come running back to you to be fixed not when he is fixed - the writing is on the wall... you just don't want to see it :(

No pink, he already paid her more maintenance than she was legally entitled to. I don't think there was anything else I didn't know. I said earlier in the thread he'd rather die than take her to court due to the opinions of others. He'd be terrified of the disapproval of his ex in laws, his ex brother in law, the rest of the village or any impact that would have on his children. He says the spiral was from losing me and his home and life which seems to add up because he was left alone with nothing, even thought it was his own fault.

Toomuch, you're right, I did think I could fix him, or at least save him from a lifetime of shit but I do know now that I couldn't and I don't intend to try to either.

Gut feeling is we won't be able to get through this many hurdles, but I still want to make sure that decision isn't one I make lightly.

I hope you're right paris, just so much in your descriptions that shriek 'unfinished business with ex', it's most probably just the level of control she has had over him, it must have been awful to be trying to have a normal family life with him with her interfering, he really should have stood up to her and not allow her to bring him to his knees.
Sounds to me like he found a refuge in you, too much I fear though, a sounding board and understanding ear through all the crap...yet...he does a runner on you, the one who truely understands him, the one who stood his corner, put his needs first and put up with the unreasonable demands of his ex impacting on your lives etc etc, that is what rankles here, that's what makes him an unsafe bet for further investment of your good nature.

Billy I have no knowledge of you and your H beyond what you have posted here. But I'm not so naïve as to think your husband pulled himself together because you 'forgave him', because you 'loved him' - he did so because he had it within him. In that you were lucky. I don't know either you from Adam, but I know human nature. Perhaps it makes you feel empowered to think you have this much control over him, but it's an illusion.

There are 1000s of women across the country loving and forgiving errant husbands for all kinds of vices, giving them strength and courage.. and being horribly let down...

Posters on this thread don't want the OP to be one of them.

I think you see things generally similarly to the way I do which is loving someone as a whole, accepting flaws, accepting mistakes, trying to move on and make the best.

This is not about loving, it's about expectations. If you believed that you were worth more than someone with such major character flaws; if you believed you could be with someone loving, sensible, kind, strong, no problems with the ex - your parallel in a man in short - then you'd be with him now.

You accepted someone who was a bit weak and a bit cowardly, who made totally unreasonable demands while you were together, who wasn't as nice to your children as his own - which is an awful trait in a stepdad role - you thought he'd do - because he was nicer on a day to day level than your ex.

You simply made the best of a bad lot & gave this man all your love because you thought you couldn't get better. But actually you can.

The signs were there all the way through the relationship, the bolting was just a continuation of these themes of spinelessness and putting his own children before everything and everyone else, rather than a genuine bolt from the blue.