Would anyone consider taking him back?

[parisinspring]

I am so confused and wanted to get some advice from someone outside of the situation on what I should do.

I was in a long term relationship with a man who was was kind, affectionate, generous, funny, gentle, giving, supportive. He was my best friend and we had a wonderful romantic life. We were together for three years, living together for two.

He was so supportive to me in the last year when I lost my job and took 8 months to find a new one and supported me financially and emotionally through. He was also a very loving stepfather to my two children (now 8 and 10). He had his own children (now 7 and 9) who are fantastic, and I loved them as did my kids.

The only problem was his ex wife. My ex partner always put her first. He kept saying he could not risk losing his children, but it got to the point of being ridiculous and I never really said anything because I didn't want him to have to choose between me and his kids - which was how he saw it.

The ex wife lived with her new husband (who she left my ex partner for) but yet she made our lives as miserable as possible. Constantly telling my ex that he had made his children feel replaced by living with me and my kids and laying guilt on him and constantly letting us live under the threat of not being able to see the kids.

She made it impossible for us to ever go out as a couple by ensuring we had the kids every weekend and also ensuring it was not acceptable for us to get a babysitter. Things like this made it really hard for us to enjoy our lives like normal people.

It culminated in the end when she decided one of her kids was sad because she thought he had been replaced by my kids in their fathers affection (even thought he bent over backwards to make his kids feel special to the point where he favouritised them and caused arguments) and she banned her kids from seeing mine.

This went on for two months (during which time he went every weekend with his kids to his parents house) and it put a lot of strain between us.

I told him eventually that it couldn't go on like this and that he was going to have to deal with it. He told me he loved me and was going to "have it out with her" and when he came back he was crying, said it was hopeless and told me he was sorry but it was over.

He packed his bags the next morning and left. He wouldn't talk about it, he had just made his mind up. He was cold after that and really refused contact with me for a very long time because he needed time and space to "get over it".

This happened 11 months ago and I have hardly seen or spoken to him since.

It was really painful for me and my kids, and his kids too who I hear were hit very hard by it too and I hear that his kids still ask for us and my kids still constantly ask for his. He's never let them see each other. He thought it was easier to make a clean break.

Without making this too long, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through and would not wish it on my worst enemy.

He was also devastated and I have heard from many people he was crying for months and didn't go out and even needed time off work and was signed off with depression. He's not met anyone else or moved on at all and neither have I.

He is now back in contact and is saying how sorry he is and that he has been in counselling and realising he should have stood up to his ex wife and put me first and he says he has never loved anyone the way he loves me and would do anything for another chance. He says he want to marry me.

I still love him, but I don't now where to begin with how complicated this decision is.

There are kids to think of, so many bridges were burned (my family and friends hate him because of what he did), and then there's all the trust gone and how much he hurt me.

I am torn between wanting him back so much and having no idea how to make this work even if I wanted to. It's not like there is a re-set button.

Is there a way back or is it better to forget and try and move on?

Dear OP, I am really quite upset by this thread. In your original post you were torn between wanting him back, but afraid of getting hurt or the children suffering any more pain. Your later posts are more angry and it reads as though the vitriolic MN massif is colouring your judgement.

What really is your dp's crime? That he is too nice? Well fuckola, they don't grown on trees and you won't find another one. No body is perfect and I would rather take a man who is overly nice in most respects but needs my love and support to help with the things that challenge him. My own dh is great in so many ways but crap with money. He knows it, I know it. So I manage all the finances. I don't want to and would rather he man up and deal with it. But he can't. We are a team, a partnership. That's why you are called partners.

So sad for you OP. Help him.

Billy you think that abandoning OP and her children with barely a word, and refusing to do anything to help them understand/ process/ deal with that loss is being too nice? I would hate to meet your version of not nice!

Internet, no I would call that having a breakdown.

I don't think he strolled off to have a good time. I think he did what he thought was best for his dc, despite it breaking him in two. I think he thought he was doing the kindest thing by making a clean break. He doesn't sound like a callous, never-look-back type. But we don't know because the OP hasn't asked him. I think she needs to talk to him to understand why, what happened???? And stop second guessing.

All I know is that if I had posted after my dh had run up £30k of debt and hidden it from me (twat) I would gave got cries of 'leave him' 'the bastard' 'how could he do that to you and your dd'. It's very easy to be tough on the internet when the consequences of those actions are not real. The stronger, braver thing to do is to help him deal with his demons, and together you can be strong enough to manage the challenge. My dh and I now have a wonderfully happy life together, but it would be all so very different if I had taken the MN stance. The op's DP is not a vicious, dangerous man, but a kind loving generous caring man, who struggles to deal with his exw and made a monumentally bad judgement call. I think it is worth a second chance, that's all.

If nothing has changed, nothing is different. For THAT reason it has to be a no.

Until he does sort this out with the ex.

She has NO rights to order him about, order the OP about wrt the dc.

he is worth a second chance but only if there is a reasonable likelihood that he won't abandon them all over again.

Breakdown maybe, but he jumps when his ex calls far and above his commitment to the OP - just look at the way that they weren't allowed to go out at the ex's say so because of the babysitting etc etc.

The OP needs to have a reasonable likelihood of this not happening again before she can put her trust in his reliability again. And it's plain unkind to reintroduce the kids to him until she can be pretty sure he won't just drop them again.

There are so many threads on MN about understanding and helping those with mental health problems, that it is an invisible illness that is deserving of our empathy and compassion.

Unless of course it's a MAN. And in the throws of his breakdown he should hurt the ones he loves the most by pushing them away.

In that case fuck him. He should just man the fuck up, and we women should not intervene until he shows himself worthy.

Or tops himself, like Robin Williams. No loss eh, ladies, what a whiner he was.

I don't think he was out of line to agree to having his children every weekend. Surely you can understand that he went from seeing them every day to then only having them for short periods of time. Would you like to only have your own children for the weekend and then plan to go out and leave them with a sitter?

A year before moving a new partner in when you have children is no time at all, you took a huge gamble and it didn't pay off. Only you know if you want to try again.

OP before you can make any decisions regarding any future relationship with this man you must make him very aware of your (understandable) continuing anger on his behaviour.
You need to get all that hurt and anger out, for your own future well being, he needs to understand the impact of his actions on you and your children.
You need this in order to "heal", maybe then you will be able to put this "to bed" and move on, either with or without him.
Do not have any friendly contact with him until he is made aware of the impact of his actions.

Billy, I don't think that's MN influencing me. I go up and down like this myself. One minute so angry, the next minuet all soft and crying. It's because of the situation not because of the advice and I have mixed feelings.

Billy your posts have been really helpful to give me the other side, thanks. Deep down in my heart of hearts I know he isn't the callous never-look-back type and what you posted about your DH is also really helpful because I know good people can make monumentally bad mistakes.

I have asked him, and his explanation is... He thought he had no choice, he thought he was choosing between me and his children, he thought there was no way out and never would be, his mind was racing and he couldn't sleep, he had chest pains and felt like he was going mad, he was suicidal / depressed and still is those things, he was acting on auto-pilot doing what he thought was best, he is sorry and wishes he had done diferrent, if he had loved me less or been in a better state he would have been there to comfort and listen to me but it was too hard so he had to go cold turkey so to speak.

I'm listening to him but it still does all forget there was other people involved who had just as many feelings.

I'm giving it time now, let him get better and more stable, let us have more and more time to talk alone and answer questions, let him show things have changed and then see how I feel.

I really hope the counsellor has provided an insight into the ex wife's behaviour. He seems in a terrible way yet when I look at it, it all leads back to her. It's like he feels helpless where her demands are concerned. There seems to be a tricky boundary by being bullied by her and doing right by his kids. He is obviously thinking the one thing that's most important are my kids so ill lead my life in that direction.

His children are super important but there has to be a line drawn somewhere because they IMO were being used as a stick to beat him with.

I think it was grossly unfair that there was no flexibility towards you having a weekend off etc or that you weren't able to get a sitter.

I mean yes with step children there is baggage etc but it just seems like a complete nightmare. I really don't know how you did it.

For one thing do not go back to this on the old terms. Just don't do it. If I was you and he asked to meet, I would say yes, on Saturday night. See what happens then. He will have to decide whether he comes or not.

In my house we are all equal. No ones needs are placed above anyone else's. I know some ppl will say his kids are more important than you but I see it as in a civilised situation everyone is valued the same. That wasn't happening last time round.

billy i think you're ignoring that most posters are frustrated with the man, but think the ex is a great deal worse. And she's the woman.

Mumsnet can be too harsh on individuals sometimes - this person has been called pathetic, a loser, weak and stupid. Billynomates has said it all really - the guy thought he would do whats best. His first priority was to keep in touch with his children - as it should be. He didnt leave the OP to live a carefree life as a single man. He left the woman he loved, the children he cared about, to ensure he kept a grip on his biological children. In doing so, it sounds like he went through a period of mental illness.

Maybe he was all of those words previously mentioned. Im sure we have all on occasions been any or all of those words.

Theres a lot of victim blaming and castigation going on here.

Having said all that, the OP should tread carefully I think. She needs to lookout for the main people in her life, that being herself and her two children, and do whats best.

I believe in second chances.

Zippey and Quitelikely great advice, thank you. I started this off thinking I was really sad and hearbroken but could never consider it and now you've all put forward a lot of opinions that have made me think there's a "maybe" somewhere. I am going to tread very slowly, very carefully with an open mind.

Hi Paris, I think it should be a maybe as well, particularly if you really loved him. Your OP was actually very sweet about you you felt about one another, but you just had this stumbling block (his ex).

A second chance would depend on how you and your children feel and if that stumbling block can be surpassed.

Ive mentioned some things which are positives in him but there are some negatives as well, particularly favoritism - there should be none where children are involved. Also his inability to stand up to his ex and put you and your children onto a forward footing with her.

He should acknowledge these traits are unnaceptable going forward.

Another thing to consider is if he is unstable just now then its probably not the best time to rekindle a relationship. It might need time.

If you were to get back together there are maybe some things you can change about yourself as well? The one thing which sticks out is that you were walking on eggshells when discussing his ex and arrangements - maybe this needs to change and you could be more vocal voicing your concerns.

Maybe if all these things were fixed, you could be in for a fresh start with a different future?

You owe this guy fuck all. Do not go back or be his friend. Meet him once and get closure. Walk away...He hurt your children fgs

I find it interesting that there are 4 young children in this story. All have seen their biological parents split up, then they have adjusted to a step family, then that has been ripped apart .all while they are still in primary school.

And yet the person who is being described by some posters as the " victim " is an adult male

He's both victim and adult, really. It sounds like all his ability to stand up to bullying has been eroded and that has to be a horrible place to be. But the result of that is that he treated someone else, the OP and her children very badly.

From the sound of it he's simply not in a place to hold down a relationship until he can stand up for himself and for the people he would like to be with. However long it takes for him to learn that.

No-one is advocating putting the guy in the stocks.

Posters are - in general - pointing out that the man is pathologically weak and conflict-avoidant.

This makes him a bad relationship prospect, and a bad potential stepfather figure. He's allowed to be as weak and conflict-avoidant and wrapped up in his own feelings as he likes. A lot of us have been there ourselves.

But he can't then demand the OP has to get involved and throw herself and her children under a bus in the name of "sympathy" and "compassion" and "love" to ensure his ickle feelings aren't hurt even more. He should be turning to professional services and the NHS for this.

Incidentally, it's actually for his own good that the OP detaches. If someone (male or female) had posted on MN saying I am so unhappy have serious mental health issues, I think if I get back with my ex I'll be happy and solve them all the advice would unaimously be to stop seeing a partner as a White Knight figure and look to actually medically trained people to work things out.

I think posters are speaking from their own experience in that this "type" will - if the OP detaches from him - probably just look for another partner to latch onto rather than actually sort out his own issues and grow as a person. So he can play happy families for a bit and feel like a proper man, but then if things get hard there'll be another disappearing act.

It's not just the OP and her situation: in general men who are drama llamas and precious and very wrapped in their own emotions with are considered fairly undesirable. They have the "right" to be as neurotic as they like. In their own time.

They don't though have the right to be respected and desired and viewed as a good relationship prospect the same way as someone who has a reasonable amount of backbone and can actually think "what is the right thing to do in this situation, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable".

If a woman had walked out on a man for about a year, then waltzed back in and said "oh, I have issues, take me back and look after me" I think everyone would be telling him not to do it!

When I was 18, one of the career paths I could have taken was medicine. I looked at it and thought "nah, too hard and stressful for me I'm going to be lazy and go into X."

That's cool. But I can't now march into an operating theatre and go "well I DESERVE to be allowed to carry out a heart transplant, same as my mate who has trained in surgery. What, so you're DISCRIMINATING against me for not being capable?".

This man isn't capable of being an adult partner. That's all posters are pointing out

Surely... if he had just once stood up to his wife and put OP first it might be different. He obviously put his children first all the time, but there is nothing wrong with getting a babysitter just once to prove to his wife he won't be dictated to from a distance. I don't know how old his kids are but perhaps they would be in bed anyway when the sitter arrived but it sounds to me as if he was browbeaten by his ex and wouldn't even consider doing something for the OP.

I think we have to remember this bloke's ex left him for another man and then married him. Yet she wouldn't allow her ex-h to go out for a few hours with his partner whilst the kids were there? That is so unreasonable to be laughable and yet he allowed it.

I don't want to demonise the bloke but I do think OP you need to tread really carefully here because he was very weak in just that one instance (and what about the rest...) and how will that change if you get back together and his ex throws a strop?

His crime is not that he is too 'nice' - it takes spectacular lack of intelligence to think that is the problem - but that he is not nice enough.

At the start of the thread I was ambivalent as I do believe people can change. But further detail the OP provided indicates that this man is a dysfunctional mess. He has been weak, selfish and cruel, and throughout the relationship he prioritised his ex's demands and his own kids over the needs of the OP and her kids. It's not just a question of one mistake singular - but constant mistakes of character and of judgement.

There's no evidence that he has changed vis a vis his ex, and if he has not, the pain he inflicted on the OP and her children last time will simply continue. He doesn't know what he wants and he doesn't appear to have the strength to effect the changes necessary on his own. He has not come back because he is truly penitent - he doesn't actually seem to be aware of the pain he inflicted on her & the kids - but because he is lost. When the OP tells him of the distress he caused he simply makes excuses such as loving her 'too much' to be able to see her. Bullshit.

The selling point of this guy is mainly that he's not as bad as the ex which is hardly a recommendation.

I don't expect women on here to necessarily have the same standards as me. But even if you're not going to require intelligence, integrity, reliability or sound judgement, surely a basic backbone is non-negotiable?

As regards Billy's post: don't bill as courage what was basically luck. Many other women stand by men in debt - either from their own incompetence or gambling - and they end up being pulled down further. It takes as much if not more courage to leave as to stay, and you were very fortunate he pulled himself together.

The OP has no guarantee that this guy will come through. Nor that he will treat her children any better than he did last time.

He's a generally good person, but also a dysfunctional mess. I think he tries to do the right thing, but misunderstands what that is.

I don't think this happened because of his ex wife, because it would have been something else down the road that he'd not been able to cope with.

He has to fix himself to be good partner material. He has the potential to do that but just see if he does

Hi paris,
Regardless of the path you take with him, I recommend that you provide counselling for your children. They will, undoubtedly, have separation anxiety and abandonment issues. This will have an effect on the overall path or trajectory of their entire lives...it really needs to be dealt with, regardless of their present ages.

Twinkle. oh Twinkle.

firstly I will thank you not to deride my intelligence. I am not stupid.

secondly you have no knowledge of my dh or my relationship on which to base your comments regarding luck and 'him pulling it together'

he pulled it together because I forgave him, I loved him, and that gave him the strength and courage to change. luck had sod all to do with it.

this world would be so much nicer if people forgave a little more and hated a little less.

I don't see any way forward unless the ex is met and issues discussed. She sounds like Cruella DeVille but you are all just regular people. I wouldn't trust him not to put her first again unless I had met her, spoke to her and seen him speak to her.
I've had a 'mysterious all powerful' ex in my relationship and it was a nightmare. These weak dramatic men make them so much more powerful than they really are.
Not saying you should get back with him if you meet her, but I think it's important.