So, here I am at the age of 37, hoping that a married man is going to leave his wife for me. How did my life come to this? :-(

[ThunderHeart]

I've been married since I was 19, and have 2 primary school aged children.

Dh is a decent enough man, but he is pretty rubbish as a husband. He's hurt me very deeply several times over the years, and each time I stayed in the relationship because I have always been utterly besotted with him and could never imagine my life without him (especially once we had children).

However, once my youngest child went to school, I gradually started to detach from dh for the first time in my adult life. I started finding time spent not with him more enjoyable than the time I did spend with him. It was a totally alien feeling, but I loved it. I finally felt free. None of his selfishness or thoughtlessness could hurt me anymore, because I was finally getting to a point where it didn't matter to me.

It was around this time that I met someone else. Someone who is so so different to dh in every way. We've been 'together' now for nearly 4 years.

When it first started, I had NO intention of leaving dh whatsoever. My life was quite nice, and new man, whilst lovely, was just my way of feeling better about myself after all the years of being let down by dh.

But it didn't turn out like that. New man is everything that dh has never been, and I feel more loved by him than I ever have by dh. He adores me, he doesn't need to tell me - I just know, and I've never felt that before.

He will also ALWAYS make his children his absolute top priority in everything. Providing them with a stable family background is very important to him. At first I was glad of this, as I felt equally determined to do the same for my children. Our relationship was conducted entirely separately to family life, and that was just fine.

It's been so long now though, I'm starting to feel that everyone in this mess is living a lie, and that we are now robbing our current spouses of a fairly significant chunk of their lives

I'm possibly ready to start thinking about leaving, but I very much doubt that he will even consider it.

Cannot believe that bit by bit, this is where my life has ended up.

You are living a life of deceit and so is he.
In simple terms, he is an adulterer and so are you. Your behaviour, whether known or not affects your spouses and your children negatively.
You think he is wonderful, but in terms of a long term lasting relationship, the evidence is not good. He has cheated on his wife and that means there is a high chance he will cheat on you too.

You need to consider your own marriage, as an issue in its own right, apart from this other man. If your marriage is over, then you need to leave it. But be very sure first and make sure you have explored all avenues which could lead to it recovering. Do not just walk away. Be aware that there will be a HUGE impact on the children.

I think the right thing would be to bin this other guy, regardless of whether you leave your husband or not. He is not yours and does not want to be yours. The fact he is not prepared to leave his wife and family mean you are SECOND CHOICE for him, and that is never an acceptable place to be.

Tbh, it sounds as if your values and self esteem are all screwed up. You can be important and valuable without either of these men....you do t gain your significance from them, especially from an adulterer who will always put you second. But you also need to recognise the damage you are doing by your current choices too....to yourself, your husband and your children.

I can see you are in a rut and there seems to be no easy happy answer. However, you do t want to be in this rut in 5 years time, so some brave choices are necessary, based on what is right and having a long term view.....think about 10, 20 years time and the consequences of different choices.

Be very wary OP. My DM had an affair with a MM that started more than 25 years ago, it culminated in the breakdown of her marriage to my DD and I have little to do with her as I have absolutely NO respect for her. She carried her affair on under our whole families noses and left me with a very skewered view of how relationships should be.

These days all children involved in both families have grown up and moved out, my dad has divorced her and OM is still enjoying retirement with his DW who has absolutely no idea that her 'DH' isn't actually playing golf several times a week, but visiting my DM.

Alternatively, bin the OM, grit your teeth, and knuckle down to a lifetime of an unsatisfactory marriage - as this will have the least negative impact on those around you.
You'll be damned if you walk away from your DH and kids (or take them away from their Dad), and you'll be damned if you carry on your affair.

From my observations over the years, it seems that those who are going to leave their marriage for an OW/OM do so fairly quickly. Once the all consuming urge to be with that other person fades and it settles into a routine over years of compartmentalizing family/security/the status quo in one box and the affair in another box, the momentum is lost and there is no real motivation to leave.

The couples I know that have started out as affairs all involved the married person (or both if they were both married) chucking in the towel on their marriage/s pretty early on (within a year of the affair starting) and shacking up together immediately.

Also seems to me that often it is the man that decides he has too much to lose (all the comfort and benefits having a wife) and cools off from the whole thing. That seems to be the situation here. He has his cake and eats it. He is unlikely to be pining for the OP when he isnt with her or dreaming of a future together, sadly.

Of course people buck the trend, but this is definitely what I have seen over the years.

The man often feels he has too much to lose because he will often be the one to have his involvement with his children compromised. You rarely hear of a man leave his unsatisfactory marriage and be able to take his kids with him.
One would assume his wife is providing neither the sufficient comfort nor benefits he is enjoying with the OW.

Neither of these men can make you happy - you need to work out what you need for yourself and stop thinking being with a bloke will solve everything, it won't.

Also, you have picked two pretty poor male specimens here - frankly, you'd be better off with a dog.

How scary would it be to do stuff on your own without any lies, and without hoping someone else to do something that they have failed to do for the last 4 years?
Otherwise, in 10 years time you'll be writing exactly the same post.

Projecting is reading into someone else's situation the details of your own - when in fact their situation is different. Certain repercussions of infidelity are universal. Being deceived, family resources being expended, being exposed to the risk of STDs. So what if the betrayed spouse is happy the relationship is over? The ends don't justify the means. There are a lot of cheater apologists on this thread.

Kay, well said.

OP -I am not going to flame you-you got into this because you were unhappy and probably your self-esteem was low.
I think it is cruel to call the relationship a "meaningless fuck" it is more complex than that.
Nevertheless you have made a big mistake and have not thought of the potential damage to other people-including all the kids.
Even if he loves you he is unlikely to leave his wife as the kids will stay with her.
Weather you leave your husband or not you need to get out of this affair and all the deceit for your own self-respect. ( I know it will be difficult).
Then decide if your marriage can be worked on or if you need to part.
This is just my opinion but I can't see happiness for you on the path you are taking.
You are still relatively young-don't waste any more of your life

doh whether not weather!

I doubt OP will be back. There are so many people here that have been hurt by unfaithful partners that can't help but project their experiences onto the situation. Yeah, it's wrong, but life is messy. We can't always live by our ideals, as much as we might aspire to.

People say that all affairs are the same, once a cheater always a cheater etc. Not true in my case. I was in an unhappy, dysfunctional, EA, sexless (by his choice) marriage in my 20s and had a 6 month affair with my now DH, who I've been with for 10 years and wouldn't dream of being unfaithful to. In an ideal world, I would have left the ex before anything happened, but my self esteem was nothing and finances were too shaky just to walk out and go to a hostel or whatever. It took me awhile to plan my exit and after 3 years of sexual rejection I wasn't strong enough to resist temptation. Ex wasn't terribly bothered when I told him, and left. He was angry for a month or so but quickly started dating again. Fortunately, my now DH was single and there were no DC involved and it was a clean break.

I doubt OP's MM will leave his family for her...after 4 years I reckon if he was going to jump ship then he'd probably have done so by now. And whatever happens, it's unlikely to be a fairy tale ending with so many DC and other partners involved. I think OP knows that though.

OP, so following on from your last post, the fact that you and OM have never had a discussion about either of you leaving your spouses, means it really has just been a casual F* doesn't it. The fact he has never spoken about taking it further means he really has wanted to have his cake and to eat it. What kind of father and husband does that make him? Perhaps he has others 'on the go' too.
And it seems you have only just started thinking that somehow,this kind of man might be the 'one' for you,rather than just a bit on the side. What a warped view you have of the characteristics of the 'One'.....perhaps it isn't your husband, but it certainly isn't a cheating liar, which is what the OM is.
But then again, you are a cheating liar too.

You can justify it, in terms of things your DH has done in the past, or delude yourself that it makes no difference to anyone else, but the reality is that your DH and children have a wife and mother who is a selfish cheat, who has put her needs above theirs, without being willing to admit to it. And whether they ever find out or not, this behaviour will have affected who you are and them too. And of course they may well find out...but that is not the key point.

So, the behaviour of you and OM will have affected your husband, his wife and 2 sets of kids. Was it worth it,to give your self esteem a bit of a boost? Is it worth it, in terms of the impact it really will have already have had on your kids and will continue to do so? Are you really willing to put all those other people's feelings and lives so low on your list of priorities, that it is somehow okay to continue to continue your dirty little affair....because that is what it is and all it is.

The right thing to do now, will be damage limitation. End the affair. It will be hard, but it is the right and courageous thing to do.

Then look at your marriage and think about that. Is there a way forward? Do you need to admit to the affair? Are you willing to try to make it work again?
If the marriage is over (and I certInly don't think it HAS to be....many marriages recover from worse than this, with determination) then get out of that.
It maybe that you need to be on your own. Better to be on your own than the bit on the side of a married man.

....you will both have lied to each other as well as your existing partners, he still has sex with his wife for instance, so every time he goes out you will wonder, every time you go out he will wonder... If he can do it with you he can do it to you.

This.
Even if he does leave his wife, how can a future relationship thrive when it has been based on lies. How can you ever trust him?

Also, will he still seem that 'great' in the cold, nitty gritty, harsh light of day?
Will you still think he's so wonderful when you are washing his smelly socks and the skids out of this undercrackers on a daily basis?
At the moment you are only seeing the 'nice' side of him.

I can guarantee you he has been having sex with his wife during the 4 years he has messing with you . Also saying your husband is pretty rubbish is pathetic, you have been sleeping with 2 men for 4 years and that makes you a really rubbish wife. Yuck !

I actually think that some relationships can work, even with shitty, adulterous beginnings.

However, just because it works out in the end, it never, ever excuses them from what they did to the other spouse/s involved.

We know a couple like this actually. When they first left their partners (who we didn't even like that much), we all gave them absolute shit and didn't speak to them for nearly two years. We are friends with them again now (they've been married for four years), but they know that we will never, ever approve of what they did in the beginning.

just out of interest kay why are you now friends with them again? and why did they take you back as friends when you abandoned them at an incredibly difficult time? When I left my DH for OM I stayed with a friend who is a practicing Roman Catholic with very strong ideas about sexual morality. She utterly utterly disapproved of my actions but supported me both emotionally and practically at a horrible, horrible time. Other people did the same for my ex DH and only two people out of many actually cut me off because of it. Am interested in what changed after two years that you re-made the friendship.

Projecting is attributing to someone else the negative and unwanted traits that you know to be true of yourself.

I contributed to this thread some way back about my own experience and my thoughts about this OP's situation. I didn't project. I have never been unfaithful and don't intend to be even though I know it could be a choice I am capable of making.

Actually that's not quite accurate - it's denying unwanted traits and attributing them to someone else. Shit wording above sorry.

I am hardly seeing 'sympathy central' here because the OP has ovaries, which one poster suggested are we reading the same thread? I don't think I have read one post showing the OP sympathy. Not ripping her to shreds does not equal sympathy.

OP, no one is going to agree with what you are doing. Did you expect they would?

Your relationship with the OM is a lie. It is based on fantasy and not much else. If he was going to leave his wife he would likely have done so by now.

I was married when I met my current husband and I left my ex for him. So I certainly understand falling for someone else, but what I don't understand is living a lie for four years. Life is so short and you are stuck in an unhappy marriage, seeing a married man who isn't going to leave his wife. What kind of life is that?

The only happy ending I can see for you is to leave both of them, or try to work on your marriage. Obviously as I left my ex husband for my current husband I don't agree that all relationships that start on shaky ground don't last. I am still happily married 8 years later and we became the best of friends with my ex husband and his new wife and had a great set up in before he sadly died. However, there is a big difference between leaving someone straight away and having an affair for four years. If he wanted to be with you he would be, make no mistake about that.

Are you happy to continue to be his bit on the side? I don't know if he loves you or not, and I don't think that matters, because he has decided to stay with his wife and keep you hanging on for four years and for four years you have made your husband live a lie. Doesn't he deserve to know the truth about his life?

I am not one to come down on affairs too harshly obviously, but you are completely screwing with someone's else's life, TWO people's lives and happiness and you have been doing so for years.

Is that the kind of person you want to be OP? because if you don't then you can put an end to it.

^Alternatively, bin the OM, grit your teeth, and knuckle down to a lifetime of an unsatisfactory marriage - as this will have the least negative impact on those around you.
You'll be damned if you walk away from your DH and kids (or take them away from their Dad), and you'll be damned if you carry on your affair.^

But if the OP 'knuckled down' and put the same amount of time and effort into her husband as she has into her OM, and if OM gave his wife the same attention he has poured onto OP, then both marriages might just improve.
If you're neglecting your partner, which is what happens if your body and mind is constantly elsewhere, then a marriage will suffer.

It is this simple fact that a lot of cheaters fail or refuse to see.

You get out of a marriage what you put into it.

Your husband doesn't sound like much of a tragically wronged victim to me so I don't feel so bad for him tbh and can't blame you for distancing yourself now you feel able.

Why have things changed now op? It sounds like you both have a relatively decent family life with a bit of excitement on the side. After four years you are more to him than just a bit on the side but equally the thrills won't last if you turn it into a full time relationship and this will also bring a great deal of unhappiness re: living apart from children, divorce etc.

Why now? What has happened to make you want to make a go of this?

Another who is trying not to project and no wish to flame but just wanted to take issue with the poster who said ----

You maybe even have been keeping two marriages together by your deceit sorry romance. This is like advice coming from the 1950s !!!! truly shocking advice and i can only think it has come from somebody in the same shitty position.

All the advice i have for you OP is to STOP minimising,excusing this away,your lack of empathy for somebody's family and how you talk about them as not relevant is shocking. I know that to some extent you have to do because it is too painful to have to admit what sort of person you have become but COME ON grab a whole heap of dignity and self respect back and do the right thing. The pain you are both going to unleash on his family makes me shudder.

In light of ShinyBlackTaxiCab's very moving post, I am wondering what major life decisions the OM's wife has made over the last four years. What decisions has she made that foreclose other avenues to her, permanently. I was also misled into making major decisions that will have ramifications for me in the financial sense as long as I live and there are five children whose lives are utterly different from the way I hoped their lives would be, from the way I had every reason to hope their lives would be. Had I known the truth I would never have married exH.

Are you contributing to the shafting of some other woman?

It really is an affair as in a double life situation.

Every single statement of your past post reeks of minimisation, excusing, reationalising. 'Our relationship really does have very little physical impact in terms of time or money on our family lives.' this is the biggest corker of them all.

Please ask yourself what decision your lover's wife might make about her marriage and her children's best interests if she knew the truth about what her H has been devoting time and energy to for four years.

She has a right to make decisions that are in her own best interests just as you assume you have a right to seek attention and fun wherever it is available.