So, here I am at the age of 37, hoping that a married man is going to leave his wife for me. How did my life come to this? :-(

[ThunderHeart]

I've been married since I was 19, and have 2 primary school aged children.

Dh is a decent enough man, but he is pretty rubbish as a husband. He's hurt me very deeply several times over the years, and each time I stayed in the relationship because I have always been utterly besotted with him and could never imagine my life without him (especially once we had children).

However, once my youngest child went to school, I gradually started to detach from dh for the first time in my adult life. I started finding time spent not with him more enjoyable than the time I did spend with him. It was a totally alien feeling, but I loved it. I finally felt free. None of his selfishness or thoughtlessness could hurt me anymore, because I was finally getting to a point where it didn't matter to me.

It was around this time that I met someone else. Someone who is so so different to dh in every way. We've been 'together' now for nearly 4 years.

When it first started, I had NO intention of leaving dh whatsoever. My life was quite nice, and new man, whilst lovely, was just my way of feeling better about myself after all the years of being let down by dh.

But it didn't turn out like that. New man is everything that dh has never been, and I feel more loved by him than I ever have by dh. He adores me, he doesn't need to tell me - I just know, and I've never felt that before.

He will also ALWAYS make his children his absolute top priority in everything. Providing them with a stable family background is very important to him. At first I was glad of this, as I felt equally determined to do the same for my children. Our relationship was conducted entirely separately to family life, and that was just fine.

It's been so long now though, I'm starting to feel that everyone in this mess is living a lie, and that we are now robbing our current spouses of a fairly significant chunk of their lives

I'm possibly ready to start thinking about leaving, but I very much doubt that he will even consider it.

Cannot believe that bit by bit, this is where my life has ended up.

WildBill that was addressed to you too.

'I wouldn't put it as living your life as though you are going to be 'betrayed and let down' I like to see it more about not putting responsibility for my future financial wellbeing in someone else's hands'

Why would anyone have a child in that case? It's the single decision guaranteed to throw a spanner into a woman's life whether she is married or single, living alone or with a partner. It is guaranteed to interfere with your job or your career. The number of mothers who proceed with their lives unaffected as if they were fathers is miniscule.

Having a baby means you end up taking time off work for maternity leave and giving yourself the annual headache of school holiday and the occasional sick day care for them, plus the continuous expense until they are independent. Throw into all of that the mental and emotional drain and the fact that traditionally if you are a woman it will be you and not the children's father who ends up doing all the drudgery associated with them.

Marriage and parenthood are more than a mere financial arrangement though, aren't they?

WildBill People can also study retrain and change direction later in life, it's not easy but it's possible.

LOL. No, it is not easy. While you are training you have to keep a roof over your head and feed yourself. Then you enter the competition for jobs in an ageist culture where the norm is increasingly contract employment with no pension provision. Meanwhile, you may have arthritis or your eyesight may not be what it used to be. Or you may have a bad back.

EarthWindandFire -- yes, they are bad mothers.

Lilywidget, I do not lack insight into the dynamics of abusive relationships. Been there and bought the Tshirt..

And again, it is not the affair so much that we are talking about. It is the lack of integrity that leads to the affair, and the cowardice and dishonesty that makes the affair partners keep their spouses in the dark.

If you are not happy in your marriage, then make your plans and leave while there is still time for everyone to get their life back on track (except those who live in WildBill's and Daisy's necks of the woods who can retrain at 55 for some job that will make them enough money in the ten years they have before retirement to afford to retire comfortably).

I am in a relationship and have a child Math I also have a career that involves very long hours and travel. That is the choice I made as I do not ever want to be dependent upon anyone for my financial well-being. I also do not believe the numbers to be minuscule as I know many women who do the same as me. I do believe that whatever your circumstances relying upon someone else to deliver your life plan (whatever that may be)is a big risk. Sometimes it will work out fine...sometimes it won't. If you're not able (or don't want to) work then find another way to make provision should your relationship end.

I also believe that you cannot help who you fall for and when. Perhaps when you marry and have children you may believe it's going to be forever but the statistics say there is a 1/3 chance that it will not be the case - you may be 30, 40, 50 or whatever who knows? I feel strongly that I would not want to be with anyone out of a sense of duty to provide for them...or them to be with me as they thought they needed to provide for me.

There are lots of reasons for affairs...there are more people having (or have had) them than will admit even in 'happy' marriages.

Where have I ever said anyone relies on someone else to 'deliver a life plan'?

Presumably you and your partner have jointly decided how you will arrange your finances?

Presumably you and your partner made a joint decision about where to live, how much house you could afford, jointly, and how much to put towards retirement?

Presumably you would like to know today if your partner made a decision that your relationship was only going to last as long as your child was still dependent, leaving you with more house than you might be able to afford and less retirement money?

I notice you have one child. When you have two or three or more, things get a little more complicated. The OP's knight in shining armour for instance has 'children'.
No matter -- women who manage to keep a career going at the same level as it was before they have even one child normally do so by being able to afford a nanny, having family available to do childcare, or with the arrangement as described by MaryWestmacott or with one partner making the sacrifice necessary: I went back to work after having DC1, this was only possible because DH was able to get an agreement that he could start at 8am and leaving the office at 4:30pm in order to be back for pick up. 4 years later after mat leave from DC2, my wage was completely wiped out by childcare for 2, and we'd realised in the mean time, DH had had to turn down one promotion in the company he's currently at and turned down job offers externally that would be great career moves for him because he wouldn't be able to do reduced hours.

Here both partners decided jointly to sacrifice. One did not know the full extent of the sacrifice going in, but still did as he had agreed because you can't shove the baby back where it came from and you can't move the goalposts when both of you have jointly made the commitment to the baby. He might have renegotiated when he had a good job offer and who knows how that might have gone, but to accept a job offer and then come home and announce it to MaryWestmacott would have been a horrible betrayal. (It would be different if disaster struck, a job was lost, or if disease or death or injury made working impossible.)

Presumably if you ever thought about a second or third child, you and your partner would sit down and look very hard at all the facts and figures available to you before you made the necessary joint decisions about money and childcare and work-life balance? How would you feel if your partner announced when your third baby was six months old that he had been involved in an affair and was leaving you for the love of his life, despite the two of you having jointly planned to have the baby and the older two children, and having jointly made job decisions and parenting role decisions based on him being available for childcare while you traveled for work, or available in the mornings to take your DCs to a CM so you could get to your office by 7:30?

You can actually help falling for people and crossing the lines necessary to indulge in an affair. You can stop yourself from crossing the lines and rededicate yourself to your partner, and tell yourself to grow up and stop believing in fairy tales. You can stop telling yourself lies about how hard done by you are by your partner and how boring and demanding and thankless it is to have to parent small children, or you can look around and realise everyone is in the same boat and you can get over yourself. You can stop feeling sorry for yourself because you are getting old and you think your life is passing you by. Yes you are getting old. Deal with it gracefully. You can catch yourself indulging in the sort of thinking where you believe you are entitled to happiness no matter what the consequences may be for other people. You can examine how mature you really are, or ask yourself what sort of myths constitute the script by which you operate your life. You can slap yourself really hard when you find yourself saying you can't help who you fall for, or when.

If you find yourself besotted and it is a problem, you can seek counselling.

And even if you do fall for someone and he or she really is The One, you can have the decency to tell the current occupant of the position of partner that they have been fired, in time for them to find happiness and get their financial house in order. There is nothing about falling in love that makes lovers immune from the requirement of common decency towards others.

Everybody is equally entitled (or not entitled) to happiness. One person's right never trumps another's.
Integrity is a really, really important character trait.

Well said Math!

Not quite sure how this is relevant to the OP at all now.

Well said math

DH and I made the decision together for me to become a SAHM when we had our first child.

I didn't marry him because he was a 'meal ticket', a good provider, had good earning potential etc.

I married him because I loved him, he is my best friend and the person I enjoy spending time with more than anyone else.

And I can't actually think of a single friend, whether their marriage is still going or not, who married for those reasons.

For the 'meal ticket' reasons, I mean...

Do not delude yourself that he will ever leave his wife--after all he has had enough time to do this .
Start afresh with your own life and forget him...hard but not as hard as waitng and hoping for him to leave his wife.

I suspect that too. You will be left with only regrets if you pin your hopes on this disloyal man committing to you.

You already know he is selfish and deceitful and likes to flatter himself that he is some kind of responsible father, but you think he will turn into a loyal, respectful, honest, committed partner to you without regard for what others think of him or you -- this is definitely a case where "relying upon someone else to deliver your life plan" is going to bite you in the bum.

You will most likely end up looking back on wasted years when you shortchanged your family and cheated yourself out of a chance to experience the full positive potential of your existing relationship because you had the BF to function the way some people use alcohol or pot. You may also regret that you used addiction to the fantasy of the relationship and the possibility of 'jam tomorrow' to deprive yourself of a chance to separate and find someone else who is actually available and real.

math 'I do not lack insight into the dynamics of abusive relationships. Been there and bought the Tshirt..'

Then your comment of 'A woman who has an affair instead of trying to leave an abusive marriage obviously has some priority adjustment to do' is even more eyebrow raising. I don't know how you can be so trite about it having experienced it yourself.

I would expect compassion rather than facetiousness.

Thunder, what I don't get is how you can bear to live with the fact that someone you love so much is having sex with another woman.

OP, I would like to give you a wife's perspective. It has been bad enough discovering my husband was possibly/probably having an affair for at least 7 months before he left me for the OW (who at the time was newly widowed I hasten to add), but to realise the extent of the deception, the extent of the betrayal, the extent of the pain they were willing to cause to both me and my children for the sake of this fucked up "relationship" has devastated me beyond description. While I have been stronger than I thought possible, it is not exaggerating to say that their actions have destroyed my life, my kids lives and our families. My husband is forever going on about how "happy" he is, but you only have to take one look at him to see the results of excess drinking (was teetotal before he left), comfort eating and God knows what else he is doing to sedate himself to know that his happiness is an illusion and he must know, deep down, that he has screwed up his life. He has no friends left, his entire family have disowned him and have supported me, he has given up everything, absolutely everything to be with this woman, who is clearly on the rebound after her husband was killed and is a screwed up as he is. It has caused endless emotional problems for my children in ways I can't even begin to describe and has left me wondering how I am ever going to rebuild my life. Let me tell you something else for nothing, I KNEW my husband was having an affair but remained in denial for various complicated reasons. I would be VERY surprised if MM's wife is clueless about this. Like me, she may have decided to keep quiet in the hope that whatever is going on would blow over. It wasn't even him disappearing off or doing anything out of the ordinary, it is just how he "was"...subtle changes you notice when you have been married to somebody for a long time. My story is complicated and there are a lot of other issues, but essentially, the outcome is usually the same for all of those involved in such scenarios. It has destroyed me, make no mistake and it will destroy MM's wife...and his kids...and I would hope you would be decent enough not to be responsible for that. My advice to you would be to stop. Now. The price is too high. Concentrate on either ending your marriage if it is really over and building a new life. I think after four years, it is very unlikely that he will leave and I know from first hand experience the devastating fallout when you are eventually caught out...which you will be. Don't do it.

OP, You say that your reasons for not leaving are partly financial, partly practical and geographical and that your DC want for nothing. You state that staying is preferable to turning their whole lives upside down. When this secret comes out, as it will, they will all be completely devastated.

Why don't you tell your MM that you want to give it a go. If he agrees then separate from your H and after a while tell your DC that you have met someone new. That way you can minimise the damage you will cause. Your H and your lover's wife need to know what is going on so that they can get on with their own lives. You wont be the first person in the world to have separated from your husband.

Pat45...such a valid point! My husband and I were still "sleeping" together up to about a week before he told me he was leaving, something I pointed out to him in an e-mail. Unbeknown to me at the time, the OW was reading all his e-mails and he frantically sent one back denying that we had had sex more than twice in the previous year. Of course, he needed her to believe that despite the fact it was utter nonsense. He then went one step further and tried (and failed) to raise a divorce petition on the grounds of my "unreasonable behaviour" stating that we hadn't had sex in SIX years...of course our 2 1/2 year old son was an immaculate conception yawn. Worse for me was the fact that he had had a vasectomy, so it was doubtful that he was any more using protection with the OW than he was with me. Vomit inducing. Lies and adultery turn you into a complete and utter prick it seems and people will believe anything when they think they're "in love".

Such a sad thread. If you are having an affair because you don't 'love' your husband (or vice versa) why can't you let them go?
There are so many decent single women and men out there who bemoan the fact that there are no singles around who would give anything to be happy in a functional relationship.
I appreciate my post isn't as eloquent and thought provoking as above but I mean it all the same

Sorry for piss poor punctuation. .

LilyWidget:
A woman who is in an abusive relationship who has an affair has a serious problem. She is giving her husband a stick to beat her with, and perhaps in some way allowing him an excuse to abuse her. I would look very closely if I were her at her motives, and what consequences she expected from an affair. She is very much enmeshed in the relationship where she is being abused when she chooses an affair over focusing on making positive changes in her life.

An abusive husband who finds out about his spouse's affair is probably not going to be too happy abut it. To pat someone on the hand and tell her it is of course completely understandable to have an affair and stop at that, is to leave an important element of that conversation unspoken, namely that she needs to focus on practical steps to get safe and stay safe -- and having an affair is the opposite of getting safe and staying safe. It is really important for an abused woman to understand that she doesn't deserve to be abused, and that would have to be stated in the context of a discussion about her affair.

I would worry that someone who takes the huge risk of an affair while there is an abusive spouse in her life has to a large extent accepted that she deserves the abuse and her punishment will prove her assessment correct (circular reasoning arising from helplessness), and I would also worry that she has decided her fate is in her abuser's hands and not her own (complete passivity/helplessness). Allowing herself to be used by someone else who maybe is only attracted to her because she is not available or because he likes deceit is not a good thing. Running from reality into fantasy if she has no intention of leaving her abuser is not a good thing. Clinging to the relationship because she has a rescue fantasy is no good either. It is really important for an abuse victim to understand that the only person who can deliver her from the abuse is her own self, her own decisions, her ability to accept and deal with reality, and her own inner resources.

It's not compassionate to ignore the elephant in the room and allow someone to act out what is fundamentally a death wish.