So, here I am at the age of 37, hoping that a married man is going to leave his wife for me. How did my life come to this? :-(

[ThunderHeart]

I've been married since I was 19, and have 2 primary school aged children.

Dh is a decent enough man, but he is pretty rubbish as a husband. He's hurt me very deeply several times over the years, and each time I stayed in the relationship because I have always been utterly besotted with him and could never imagine my life without him (especially once we had children).

However, once my youngest child went to school, I gradually started to detach from dh for the first time in my adult life. I started finding time spent not with him more enjoyable than the time I did spend with him. It was a totally alien feeling, but I loved it. I finally felt free. None of his selfishness or thoughtlessness could hurt me anymore, because I was finally getting to a point where it didn't matter to me.

It was around this time that I met someone else. Someone who is so so different to dh in every way. We've been 'together' now for nearly 4 years.

When it first started, I had NO intention of leaving dh whatsoever. My life was quite nice, and new man, whilst lovely, was just my way of feeling better about myself after all the years of being let down by dh.

But it didn't turn out like that. New man is everything that dh has never been, and I feel more loved by him than I ever have by dh. He adores me, he doesn't need to tell me - I just know, and I've never felt that before.

He will also ALWAYS make his children his absolute top priority in everything. Providing them with a stable family background is very important to him. At first I was glad of this, as I felt equally determined to do the same for my children. Our relationship was conducted entirely separately to family life, and that was just fine.

It's been so long now though, I'm starting to feel that everyone in this mess is living a lie, and that we are now robbing our current spouses of a fairly significant chunk of their lives

I'm possibly ready to start thinking about leaving, but I very much doubt that he will even consider it.

Cannot believe that bit by bit, this is where my life has ended up.

oh do stop letting your imaginations run riot!

I've tried to be balanced with my comments but I'm getting tired too of poster making up stories when they don't know anything really.

It's quite possible to know where someone is without 'stalking' them. eg 'my DW is spending the day with her mum, or she's gone to Bluewater for the day with DD, or she's gone to the spa with a friend', or whatever..
He could even have texted 'she's in the kitchen making a roast dinner..'
Doesn't mean the OP is talking.

And I don't see why there was a need to put 'career' in inverted commas.
He presumably has a career.

What do you know, Pinkfrocks? Been an OW have you? Seen an OW forum have you? Tried to help a friend in absolute distress over a married man? How about you post your 'credentials' before telling other people what to do, perhaps.

Oh I say! I didn't know one had to pass a test of some kind in order to post on a forum

I know that it's enough to have a brain and work out that in this day of texts, phones, FB and social media, it's quite possible for someone to know what another person is up to without actually stalking. I think you're being a bit silly to suggest one needs 'credentials' to work that one out.

It's not really very important though is it?

The issue is that OP is in denial about what a terrible choice she's making right now in doing nothing, and also delusional about what she 'knows' about her relationship with OM outside the defining context of an affair. What she 'knows' about his marriage is, as she says, unknowable, but almost certainly misrepresented for ease.

He could even have texted 'she's in the kitchen making a roast dinner..'

That in itself is still creepy. There's no getting away from the fact that the OM's wife's 'every move' is being closely . monitored....ALL without her knowing.
I don't care what anybody else says - that's very similar to stalking someone. It's being done without her knowledge and permission.

It is creepy, sweetnessandlite. I also wonder why he would do that - or why OP would even be interested in that sort of communication. I know I wouldn't be, but I suppose if you have little going on at home yourself, any crumb is comfort.

Also THERE'S NO REASON FOR HIM TO BE TELLING THE TRUTH

The point is, that OP has already admitted to lying/ omitting truth in her dealings with him, not being honest about the extent and truth of the damage to her marriage. Why one earth would he not also be misrepresenting, for whatever psychological purpose? This is an AFFAIR. They don't just lie to their spouses, they lie to each other, Even without being fully conscious that's what they're doing.

This is getting silly. I have no moral judgement, OP, I've had affairs and I've been cheated on. You are just not awake yet. And you are doing nothing to wake up.

The best thing you can do is talk to OM. And, if it is what you want, have a plan - a practical one - for how you could go about being together, and present it to him. Neither of you is in a good marriage right now, let's be frank. An open relationship is one possible solution but is unlikely to make you happy over time.

Think about who would keep which assets, where you would all live, how schooling/jobs might work out etc At all times put the DC first (you both sound as if you would). OM's greatest sticking point might well be that he is worried about losing touch with his DC - what age are they? How confident can he be that that won't happen? If it is too great a worry, then maybe have a plan to be together in (guessing) 3 years or 5 years and work towards that. You can still leave your DH in the meantime if he makes you miserable but perhaps with OM to "fill in the gaps" you might be able to soldier on for a bit.

I wish you luck in a tough situation.

OP I'm very surprised that you have managed to get away with this affair without being found out. Technology has now meant that it is easier than ever to catch a Cheat.
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I were you.... wondering if today was the day when the shit finally hits the fan - Eg when he forgets to hide his phone, or, om's wife (or your husband) may decide to track one/both of your cars or key log a computer , the potential for discovery is endless.

Not forgetting that your work colleague s could spill the beans at any time (work colleagues usually know who's messing about with who), even if you think you've been careful.

That wondering whether This phone call is the one with the anonymous caller on the line.... telling all to your spouse.
Your Dh and OM's wife could suss things out at ANY time.
It's only a matter of time before your luck runs out.

(I wouldn't take the risk of losing custody of my children if divorce happened) but you must be made of tough stuff to put up with that cloud hanging over you.
You must be living on your nerves!

sweetness perhaps being found out wouldn't make the OP's life substantially any worse than it is right now. Perhaps it might even be a relief. incidentally, are you saying that you would never divorce, no matter what the circs, just in case you lost custody? I am not sure I understand your last comment.

Thank you. That is kind of you.

I'm not sure how to respond to everything else(!) Stalking!

I only know all about that because when we're not together he likes to keep in regular contact and chat through his daily life with me. I know all about his children's lives, and even all the extended family too, because he likes to talk about them. Yes, I suppose it's a bit weird. If I ever get to meet these people, I would be all new to them whereas I feel like I already know them.

I really didn't mean for this thread to become a focus of people who have been betrayed by their partners.

One thing that is clear, is that there are as many different patterns to an affair & reasons for having them as there are people in the world. For some reason, people like to put affairs into a box that follow a script. I suppose because they're so painful, people look for explanations and this is the only way to make some sense of them. I'm not sure it's actually all that helpful though. Seems to lead to a lot if assumptions and hearsay.

sweetness is obviously trying to rile OP by pushing her buttons, presumably because she has a personal relationship to the themes of this. Unfortunately this is unlikely to work. People tend to act when they feel supported, not judged. As empathetic notes above, often discovery is a relief from stasis. And it really doesn't take a James Bond level of espionage to keep secrets these days, I'm afraid. Technology makes it easier to hide as well as be found out.

Perhaps it might even be a relief.

To the OP but what about everyone else that is blissfully unaware as to what is going on?

No matter whether or not both marriages are on the rocks and the OP only has the OM word for the fact that his isn't a happy one, there will be a fallout. The 'innocent parties' are hardly going to leap for joy when it gets found out are they?

The OP needs to recognise and acknowledge that this will happen.

I'm not trying to rile OP. I'm only stating what could happen.
And yes, I DO speak from experience

I was the stupid unsuspecting wife iin a marriage where my (ex) husband and his mistress were monitoring my every move. Obviously to make it easier for meetups etc.
And let me tell you - if you stop to think about it, its not how a human being with any type of moral concience should be treating another human being.

My Ex's biggest mistake was to become so complacent that he got overconfident and sloppy in the end. I did a bit of detective work (on the quiet) all the while continuing to play dumb and their on-off affair of roughly 6 years was finally discovered.
I made sure I had certain financial arrngements in place before confronting him though.

Oh and OP, this might not apply to you, but in my case (and other women I've spoken to in my boat have said the same) - at no point during the affair did I ever notice any drop off in sex.
But I don't think that's what he told her. Obviously.

Looking back on it now, I think he wanted the best of both worlds. He begged me to give him another chance (all his love for OW suddenly flew out the window once confronted and faced with the harsh reality of losing us).
We are not together any more.
And he's also not with his AP either.

Hopefully your situation will turn out differently.

Technology makes it easier to - hide as well as be found out

This is how I caught him in the end. He was shocked by that more than anything, as I don't think he thought I was 'technologically inclined' - his words, enough to monitor his computer activity, phone and car.

But, its amazing how people can change and step up to the mark when they have to. Even the quietest people - people like OM's wife, that are taken for fools.

And now, I'm definitely not saying any more on this subject.
OP, I am never going to be able to tell you what you want to hear. That's fairly obvious I think.

I hope you end up doing the right thing.

EarthWindFire but the general consensus on MN always seems to be that the wronged partner would want to know (has a right to know, even). It might well be a relief for them too as they are unlikely to be under the impression that their marriage is wonderful.

They may want to know but don't down play the hurt and betrayal that they will feel when they find out.

sweetness seriously, love, you sound as if you still need some help over your own issues around this topic.

Not sure where you are along the road to recovery - but coming on here as the bitter 'victim' and venting your spleen is not really doing you- or the OP- any good at all.

Your posts are just sheer nastiness.

Get yourself some help and maybe keep off threads like this because it's clearly opening up old wounds and that's not helping anyone.

'As I've said, I'm never going to have the required level of insight into their life to make it worth thinking about really.'

OP, I suspect you use this kind of thinking to avoid having to confront the damage being done to the OM's wife.

Of course, you are not responsible for her. We are each and every one of us responsible for our own fidelity, as we are for the rest of our behaviour. But thinking about her pain might force you to acknowledge the kind of man your OM is, or at least has been for the last four years.

None of us can know the whole truth of this situation but there are some key facts which include that at some point both the couples involved did at least love each other enough to pledge to spend their lives together, to honour / cherish / respect / whatever, and to decide to have children together.

From what you've said throughout the thread (although not in your OP) it would seem you don't see a future in your marriage. If that is genuinely the case then I would suggest an honest conversation with your husband about that (assuming safe to do so - as we don't know what he is like you will need to judge that). For him to be able to contribute sensibly to that conversation, and make realistic choices, you will need to let him know what has been going on. What happens next ... who knows?

In terms of the affair, I would urge you to consider that an affair is very often the least intimate relationship a person can have and try to think honestly about how well you really know each other. If you truly see a future together then speak openly about it and act fast. You may not want to force the OM's hand but it would be incredibly cruel to continue on in the hope or knowledge of him planning to leave in the future. Others have mentioned the potential financial devastation his wife may face. Personally I would happily lose my home, pension, savings etc if it meant growing old with my wonderful husband by my side and my happy memories of our life together intact. His fidelity is not your responsibility but if you know where this is headed then for goodness sake have a heart.

This brings us on to you. Who are you, really, deep down inside? Are you really so callous that you don't care about the pain that everyone in this scenario is going to feel? Is this really who you want to be? I doubt it.

You can't change the past but you can change the future. The future in this case will undoubtedly have huge pain for many but it is not too late to start treating those around with some respect and compassion.

Finally, counselling might help you find a way forward and to work out the answer to your original question.

Fab post, guinnessguzzler. I wish I'd said those things to my friend. I don't know if it would have made a difference to the outcome but I'd certainly have felt that I'd been a better, more clued-up friend if I'd said them.

sweetnessandlite... You belong on this thread if you want to post here, ignore anybody who tells you different or that your views aren't valid. They are.

Sweetness - Thank you for sharing your story. I do appreciate you telling it actually. And there may be some similarities with my situation. Who really knows? Six years is a long time. Did you really not notice a difference in your relationship over all that time? I actually try my best not to pry into OMs marriage as much as possible. Not sure why. It just feels wrong (yes.....I know....I know.....but just actually talking about her is very uncomfortable).

I have had a lot of fantastic advice and insight from this thread. Pinkfrocks - sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your earlier questions about dh. How would he react? Honest answer - I have no idea. That's how closed off he is. Sometimes I think he wouldn't give a monkeys. Other times I think he would actually be devastated, he just doesn't show it. As I say, no idea!

Thanks Lying. I finally joined MN to post that so glad someone thought it was worth it

OP, what did you hope you to get out of this thread when you started it? I am genuinely thinking it might help you to ask yourself that, because your OP didn't really address it.

I also notice that the subtext of your OP seemed to be - your feelings have changed and developed and really, you're ready to leave and want OM to do the same. Yet that has been downplayed through the thread.

It was Guiness. Those honest conversations you speak about though, are bloody terrifying.

Which is weird because before this, I was always known for being very bluntly honest and to the point. I was always happier with things out in the open