So, here I am at the age of 37, hoping that a married man is going to leave his wife for me. How did my life come to this? :-(

[ThunderHeart]

I've been married since I was 19, and have 2 primary school aged children.

Dh is a decent enough man, but he is pretty rubbish as a husband. He's hurt me very deeply several times over the years, and each time I stayed in the relationship because I have always been utterly besotted with him and could never imagine my life without him (especially once we had children).

However, once my youngest child went to school, I gradually started to detach from dh for the first time in my adult life. I started finding time spent not with him more enjoyable than the time I did spend with him. It was a totally alien feeling, but I loved it. I finally felt free. None of his selfishness or thoughtlessness could hurt me anymore, because I was finally getting to a point where it didn't matter to me.

It was around this time that I met someone else. Someone who is so so different to dh in every way. We've been 'together' now for nearly 4 years.

When it first started, I had NO intention of leaving dh whatsoever. My life was quite nice, and new man, whilst lovely, was just my way of feeling better about myself after all the years of being let down by dh.

But it didn't turn out like that. New man is everything that dh has never been, and I feel more loved by him than I ever have by dh. He adores me, he doesn't need to tell me - I just know, and I've never felt that before.

He will also ALWAYS make his children his absolute top priority in everything. Providing them with a stable family background is very important to him. At first I was glad of this, as I felt equally determined to do the same for my children. Our relationship was conducted entirely separately to family life, and that was just fine.

It's been so long now though, I'm starting to feel that everyone in this mess is living a lie, and that we are now robbing our current spouses of a fairly significant chunk of their lives

I'm possibly ready to start thinking about leaving, but I very much doubt that he will even consider it.

Cannot believe that bit by bit, this is where my life has ended up.

thunder, the fact you haven't even told him you feel this way speaks volumes. Don't you see you're both engaged in a game? That it's a game all round? Affairs torture and destroy all involved, I know it doesn't feel fun like a game. But all this withholding of information, seeing what his next move is, late night texts. It's a game you're playing on your phone and then eventually everyone's life is what's at stake.

With respect you have NO IDEA what will happen, in any direction, and that's terrifying and paralyzing. You need to break it open, and if you can't finish it for good, you need to get everyone in the same room and talk about it. I know that sounds absolutely mental and you're never going to do it, but you need to break the game. There is not one single person here you are being truly honest and respectful with. you may think you could be with the OM but you're kidding yourself. You're hiding and lying already. You need out of this in a real proper way, even if it means forcing others to sabotage it because you are too weak to break this.

It doesn't sound like you communicate very well with your OM if you haven't told him that your home life is rubbish.

Maybe you need to work out why you're hiding different parts of your life from the two men in it?

All relationships ultimately thrive on communication.

You obviously don't communicate well with your DH, but you seem to be repeating the pattern with your OM as well...

Thunder- what do you each get out of this?

You say that he doesn't say he loves you- and he doesn't 'need to but the truth is -perhaps- he doesn't say it because he doesn't love you.
You haven't said much about his marriage and why he is with you?

Just to throw something else in here- there were the results of a survey in the Times yesterday, carried out on women who joined dating sites for married people. The results showed that the women joined purely for sex. They mostly all said they had happy but boring marriages and they never intended to leave their husbands.

What are you getting out of your affair and what is the OM getting? Are you simply his 'bit on the side'- a bit of spicy sex and clandestine meetings?

If he provides you with some kind of emotional connection, can you recreate this with your DH? And if not, why can't you leave? You appear to say that finances stop you, but is that the case - or are you just not willing to take a drop in your standard of living?

You really need to start thinking all of this through because it doesn't sound as if you really have.

That's interesting Pinkfrocks.

I think what we both get out of our relationship is spending time with somebody that seems so happy to be with you and who you are so comfortable being around. We were friends for a long time before we both developed feelings for each other, and we really do have an excellent relationship.

When I was talking about him loving me, I just meant that I don't need him to say it, in the way I used to with dh, not that he doesn't actually say it. He has told me how much he loves me, I know how much he feels for me. That's one thing in this whole sorry mess that I have no doubt about.

You need to think this logically. You say you have an excellent relationship with OM, however you have also said you don't see him all the time.

Your time with him isn't 'real' if you like. It is just you and in in a situation with out either sides children, families or every day run if the mill stuff.

Throw all if this into the mix and would it still be excellent?

I do think it is telling that he hasn't said he lives you after 4 years.

X posts. Having feelings for someone is different to loving them IMO.

It can't be that excellent if you haven't confided in him the truth of how your relationship with your DH has broken down, surely?

You don't need to tell people. It's nobody else's business. You wouldn't have lovers at the house and neither would your husband - other than that, you'd be free to come and go as you pleased.

Believe me when I tell you that OM has not been entertaining the idea of leaving his wife. If he had, he would have done this by now, suggested it to you once you were both sure of your feelings for each other.

BloodontheTracks is right; you haven't asked him because you know what the answer would be.

If nothing else, affairs should be 'fun', a distraction, a filling of the 'gaps' that you have in your primary relationship. Angst and feeling as if you don't know where you are is not fun.

I wonder what OM has filled his Sunday?

Probably got up late (after Sunday morning nookie) despite him telling ow otherwise

Nice lazy, relaxed day spent with his children his children.

This is what he's more than likely doing with his wife. I bet they are really close behind closed doors.
All men give their mistresses the illusion that their marriage is rubbish and that they're not close to their wives (it's a good way of guaranteeing they get their leg over)

OP if you could be a fly on the wall at their family home.. you would get a nasty shock.

This man has the best of both worlds. You seem very gullible.

'How' om has filled his sunday

Why is everyone so adamant on telling what the OM is thinking? I don't know where he will go with his thoughts. I don't think he knows, so I'm fairly sure nobody on here does.

If it makes any difference, he has suggested leaving. A long time ago now, but back then I was the one saying 'no', 'maybe one day'.

Circumstances mean though, that he stands to lose a lot more than just his marriage. I want no part in 'persuading' him to go through with this. It's something he has to decide entirely for himself. I think also that me telling how I've started feeling will put pressure on him to make that decision. I would rather leave him be to make any decisions like that for himself.

Amazing sweetness!! I know exactly where he is today and what he's doing. Why it is at all helpful to paint little made up scenarios, I have no idea!

so what do you really want to do- Thunder?

It IS a sorry mess but you've both made it that.

I don't know , but are you actually slightly enjoying the 'mess' because you seem to refer to it as an entity in itself, rather than something 2 people have created.

What would your DH say if he knew?
Would he want to patch things up?
Or does he feel the marriage is dead in the water which is what you appear to be saying?

Is there any chance anyone would tell him?
How do you see this OM? Is it at work, or do you sneak off for drinks supposedly with girlfriends? How have you managed to keep it going and not be caught?

Does your DH suspect and maybe not even care? Is he being complicit in the deceit because he too doesn't want to split up?

Thunder, I think my post got you thinking and has struck a chord... your 'very' quick replies make me think you may have a touch of the green eyed monster towards om's wife and the time he spends with her.
Interesting.

Maybe You can go back to your 'illusion' that om and his wife 'don't get on', but I suspect the reality is very different.

ThunderHeart... Some of us have been there, that's why.

Humour me please... put yourself in OM's shoes but with your head/heart not OM's. So, you start having an affair with a friend whom you've known forever and the affair progresses. At what point, ThunderHeart (as OM), would you start evaluating the possibilities? One year? Two? I think you would have started making comparisons of your live(s) very soon after starting the affair and then looked at how you were 'matching' in compatibility.

I personally believe that women and men feel differently about their affairs. I think that women tend to develop stronger feelings faster than men (if they ever do) and men find it easier to compartmentalise. I'm not saying that ALL men and ALL women do this but the characteristics are distinct and to go against them is unusual.

Married women having an affair are not likely to look for an additional affair partner whilst married men (anecdotally) keep their eyes open; after all they're already cheating so what's the difference?

It's never men who devise and post on 'OM' forum whilst some women do just that. Why is that, do you think? Do you think that married men sit at home and ruminate on what their life has become because of the affair? Do you think that the vast majority of them sit and plan for the future - without taking any affirmative action? I think that men are very much more direct than women in that they're expected to be the 'proposer' so if they want something, it's infinitely more easy for them to go ahead and ask.

I know that you're hating hearing these little 'scenarios' you've referred to. You're hating them because they're uncomfortable for you as a possible/probable reality.

I'm no longer suggesting to you that you should end your affair because that would be a waste of time. I'm suggesting to you that you take your head out of the clouds, look at the cold hard facts of what OM is offering you and keep your expectations strictly limited to that. In the meantime, sort out your homelife so that it doesn't all blow up in your face.

I don't expect you to acknowledge the posts that you don't like but I really do hope that you'll question the points made, to yourself for your own sake so that you have the answers that are right for YOU.

But he's not even with her!! How bizarre.

Obviously their relationship is pretty important to me. For many many reasons. Obviously I wonder what it's like at home for her (and him).

And yes, I feel guilty that I know so much about this woman's life, and pretty much know exactly where she is and what she's doing everyday, when she doesn't even know that I exist.

I'm trying to stay focused on doing what's best for my own family though. As I've said, I'm never going to have the required level of insight into their life to make it worth thinking about really.

If it makes any difference, he has suggested leaving. A long time ago now, but back then I was the one saying 'no', 'maybe one day'.

... and if this were true, really true, you wouldn't need to be posting here "hoping that married man is going to leave his wife" for you because you'd know that he was 'good to go'.

That's made me sad for you, ThunderHeart, you are lying to yourself. If you weren't, these posts wouldn't make you wince... in fact, you wouldn't be posting here at all, you'd be riding off into the sunset with OM by now.

Thunder wondering if you ignored my questions intentionally?

About whether your Dh suspects?
What he would do if he finds out?
How you manage to cover your tracks?
Someone in Rl must know???

So you need to think about what you'd do if he confronts you.

I don't know the extent of your affair- some posters here alluded to sitting on benches drinking..is that all it is?
is it an emotional affair only?

Maybe not with her now, at this moment. But unless you are joined at the hip 24/7 you have NO way of knowing when he IS with her (in all senses of the word).

Also, how do you know you're the only one? He could have somebody else on the go ..not unheard of (would explain why he's never been THAT quick to set up shop with you)

Does he do a lot of travelling with his 'career'?

Thunder how often do you see the OM? I'm just curious

In your op you say you very much doubt he will consider leaving.

Has that changed since he suggested it?

I'm getting a bit fed up with this tbh. I appreciate that isn't much help.

I am fed up because there is this huge blind spot that is filled with the supposed loveliness between you and om, which blanks out/justifies entirely what you are both really doing, how awful it is for the innocent people connected to what you are doing.

Also re your being DETERMINED to have a happy marriage, despite evidence to the contrary, suggests you decide how you want things to be and pay scant attention to reality, what us really going on. Sort of tunnel vision. I guess it's what all people do who are having affairs. Horrible, though.

You say he was keen to leave to be with you earlier in your relationship. If you do make a go of it, are you going to tell the discarded spouses how long your love-in has been going on for? Or are you going to fudge that as well? Devastating for them when they find out, but I do hope you'll be honest.

I'm not going to carry on here - i just can't take your selfishness OP. I've tried to see it differently but it seems to be staring me in the face. What you are doing is horrible and nothing justifies it.

Also, thunder, for you to know where om's wife is at all times.(your own admission).... means you must stalk her a fair bit.
Stop and ask yourself.... is that right?

And yes, I feel guilty that I know so much about this woman's life, and pretty much know exactly where she is and what she's doing everyday, when she doesn't even know that I exist.

Not healthy. The poor woman. She ... other man's wife, would be horrified if she knew she was being 'watched' all the time.

It's creepy and wrong.
How can you NOT see this, OP?

Thunder, I know you can't hear me through your viewpoint but I promise you have NO idea what you're relationship with OM is like as a full relationship. A friendship is NOT like a relationship. I have friendships that are forever May with people who if I had to go out with them I would attack them with a sledgehammer. Affairs are as reliant on the main relationship as they are in opposition to it. You do not know what your feelings for each other are IN ISOLATION because they are in reference to an rebellion against another, separate but intertwined marriage, for both of you. Even if you have spent weeks alone together, it is still a mere gesture towards a monogamous relationship, a shadow. Now if you got together you could find out what it is , but even after four years, you may as well say that you want to live in the Maldives because you go there every year on holiday. It is entirely about where you actually live that the Maldives seems like a nice, occasional alternative. If you actually lived there it would be awful.