Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

pony I saw a lovely tiny house to rent and I could really see myself living there. Plus, I've been writing up my cv at work as I think I need to move on (nothing much to do, weird situation?!) sent it out to 2agencies yesterday afternoon and bam! Got 2 v good responses and I am chuffed to bits, I cannot tell you how flattered I am, I know it's their job to flatter but somehow it gave me such a lift. H is constantly putting me down (dur, that's why we post here!) and I think I've been living so much inside my head, so to speak, getting some validation from the real world is fabulous. I can see a life for myself living in that little house going to a shiny new job.... I could reach out and touch it right now...what's stopping me?? 1) jointly owned house, like you nini it seems getting rid is the first hurdle to overcome. There's a potentially huge time factor involved. Or I could get an occupation order (here goes the circular thinking again) but that would put everything onto a litigious footing from the off.

Would it be better to move out then deal with the fallout? It will cost me in the region go £10k+. That's a huge chunk of cash. I'm assuming our family house would sit (basically empty or with h living in it) while its on the market while I live elsewhere (tiny house) and even though the market is hot I know that you cannot count chickens before they hatch when it comes to house sales or job offers so it could mean doubling up for a year. If the house wasn't sold after a year (unlikely!) I could move back in as we'd be split by then. nini finances aside are you looking at a similar picture/decision? I've been told so often that moving out gives time/space/clarity, I just can't get over the basic financial picture, I am quite a realist when it ones to money, which is a big part of my reluctance to leave H as he earns more than me! Puts my life as an unliberated woman in shameful perspective but its fear of the unknown.

sillyfox your 'discussion' with H sounds so familiar! But in my case it is generally him wanting me to write out a list-- he wants something that he can use against me, something he can wave at me to prove that either my demands are unreasonable, or that he's fulfilled my demands as per list so why am I still not satisfied... In any case fox he's withdrawing from the conversation and acting like a petulant baby so he is manipulating the situation. I've no good advice to add as I can't seem to get out of my own situation, but if I did have good advice it would be that these men won't change do don't try to be reasonable with them, any attempt at reasoned discussion will end badly or you'll just twist yourself in knots trying to dance to his tune, to mix metaphors! I was in a similar situation yesterday morning at 8:45, H wanted me to sit down and discuss things, I had keys in hand ready to leave for work as already late, I tried to compromise by sitting down for a few minutes, he started criticising me and my thyroid issues and I have to admit I reacted very badly, shamed myself as I shouted and wanted to hit him. But I walked out and at least I got to work by 9:30, pulled myself together.

My thyroid situation is getting hilarious. I'm thinking its potentially dangerous? He is not satisfied with the doctors request for a retest in 6 weeks. He wants me to go to a private Harley street clinic and get a test done, he sounds reasonable when he talks but the undertone is he wants me on medication, 'fixed', pronto. I too wanted medication earlier in the week when I thought that thyroxine was a magic pill that would make the weight drop off and my brain (somewhat foggy) sharp as a tack. Well I've done more reading up and that may not be the case! And I'd be on medication for life, fine if its warranted but not to be rushed into. And it's affected my perception of myself, I'm seeing myself as borderline defective?! I spoke to the doctor and she said for my reading, not hugely high, it wouldn't be affecting me that much. And prospect of new job brought me sudden mental clarity so it may be that it's not thyroid at all, IYSWIM?

He's not sabotaging the house sale, Fox, although I am being left to deal with it all (sound familiar?). Finding a buyer is taking longer than I thought it would. Hes mostly being unpleasant about other things, just out of spite.

It doesn't help that I have a new boss, who is turning out to be a FW too. And you cant divorce a FW boss! I'm just getting it from all sides right now.

Fox when I read through your account of what happened, my first thought was 'that ended just the way he planned it' - ie he gets to say why he thinks things aren't working (ie you're not a team, which implies some fault in you instead of it being mainly him), and he didn't in the end have to actually talk about stuff because he ended the discussion unilaterally when he felt like it, having provoked you and gaslighted you into a frustrated corner, leaving you feeling guilty for having shouted. Now he feels there is no hope so he can justify not talking any further because you have spoiled things. He is the poor injured party feeling sorry for himself. Again, where is his thinking about you in all this? Where is his recognition of how unhappy you have been, because of how he has behaved towards you?
Plus, he's setting you up to be miserable on holiday, with you trying your damnedest to walk on eggshells around him so you all have a nice time (which he might, if you do that, but you certainly won't).

thats I hope you are not going to listen to FW re going for a second opinion etc - he's desperately trying to control you any way he can, and if he can through your health then it's a foothold for him. So you have two options it seems at the moment. Take the tiny flat and pay £10k, or start occupation order proceedings (which will presumably also cost money). I don't know what's the best option for you to do. My thinking (from the outside position) is just take the flat and get out as soon as you can, but what does your gut tell you?

Nini love. When you are on your own in your room, treat that as your sanctuary. You can claim that back for yourself and make it your place to retreat, rather than feeling holed up and miserable in there. Watch stuff on iPlayer, play nice music, paint your nails. Don't let him grind you down, you need to fight back in small ways.

I want to 'like' your post pony ! The voice of clarity speaking from the other side of the proverbial fence.

Not quite accepted that my relationship is EA. I admit to myself that it was certainly ill-advised, looking back. :(

I'm scared of ending it and regretting it. Not for me, but for our kids. Things have been not quite so bad. Before him I would not have been worried about being alone. For some reason that's bothering me now.

Apart from how he speaks to me, which isn't anywhere near as bad as some of you have experienced, I just don't like him much as a person anymore. Not sure where to go from here. I know he'd never leave.

I do that on MN too thats, I forget I am not on Facebook and try to like posts!

despicable sorry you find yourself here, but pull up a comfy chair, feel free to tell us more about your situation but only it you want. And have a look through some of the links in the OP, they can be useful. You might find he ticks a lot more of the boxes than you think, we all minimise something chronic. Even now, nearly three years after leaving (and my divorce ink still wet) I found myself thinking earlier this week 'Maybe he wasn't as bad as I made him out to be, perhaps I was wrong to leave.' A quick self-talking to was given, because he was and I wasn't.

And a quick word re the children: I was pouring all this out to a (wonderful) friend just this morning. She reminded me that by leaving I taught my sons about self-worth and boundaries. It was just what I needed to remember. We learn about what relationships look like from our parents. I don't think anyone who has left a partner who is emotionally or verbally abusive has ever regretted not keeping their children in that situation, whereby their mother is miserable and put down. But you can't leave before you are ready, it doesn't work like that. So read up and ponder for now, and keep posting.

Hi everybody. I've been lurking on this thread and I'm not really sure if I belong here but I think my first serious relationship was emotionally abusive. He would be really nice one minute and then mean the next - he was a real Jekyll and Hyde character, quick to blame almost everybody each time he made a mistake. He also had sex with me without asking permission, would always be touching me even though I did not want him to. (angry). He would always make up dramas for some reason every time I did something without him or would just turn up at my flat uninvited. He would always invite himself to stay the night and would not let me sleep, preferring to make duck noises in my ear all night. Eventually I finished it with him, telling him that I was scared for my safety and he told me via text never to contact him again. I'm sure he used to go past my flat with his new girlfriend for months afterwards and stalked me as I went into town. I'm sorry for the essay but I've never told anyone this in RL and it has taken me ten years to realise that this relationship was not healthy, I'm not sure how I move on from it and sometimes feel angry that he's got to live his life in peace whereas I am constantly looking over my shoulder and jump if somebody knocks on my door.

He also used to not care if I was ill. One clear incident in my mind was when I'd had a blackout the night before meeting up with him to supposedly discuss a warrant for his arrest . I wanted to cancel as I was still feeling pretty groggy and I just wanted to rest and take things easy. XP decided that I was making excuses and turned up. He was moody with me because I was late meeting him and he cruelly said "Come on bus". I told him about the blackout and he dismissed it as nothing saying that I probably had a migraine and just fainted. . I do get migraines but have never fainted from them. Yet in our relationship, XP supposedly had a glaucoma, low-blood pressure, ME and was so tired that he needed to sleep on me for a whole afternoon and I was supposed to be sympathetic to him. He also threatened to kill himself and use his child (from a previous relationship) to control me. Sorry I'm rambling now.

Hey Watch , yes, this was an abusive relationship. I'm so sorry you experienced this. It sounds horrible.

But you are out of now, which is fantastic. How are you dealing with what you went through, have you had any counselling or are you just Getting On With Things? Counselling can definitely help.

I originally just got on with things and thought I was the unreasonable selfish one but I now realise that I was doing all the giving and he was doing all the taking. I'm looking into counselling and have been reading some books on emotional manipulation tactics and setting boundaries. Both of these are by AB Admin.

Hi all. Been awhile, just lurking, but struggling to keep up with it.

I am slightly stressed, but dealing. I do think if one more friend rhapsodises to me about Fifty Shades of Grey, I may scream. I cannot understand the appeal at all.

Sending you strength Alice, I noticed you hadn't posted in a while and have been wondering if you were ok. I am with you on the 50 Shades - really do not want to watch it/read it at all. Find it hard to see it as just a story when it's portraying some very worrying ideas.

That's good you've been reading up Watch. Counselling really helps too, in the sense of untangling the spaghetti-headedness and the fog.

Personally I can't think of anything less attractive than 50 shades.

Oh the irony. Ex's adult ds posting about what a great dad ex is. If only he knew how many times I had to push ex to ring him and talk to him, as ex didn't want to bother. Or how many times ex had literally washed his hands of him and said "that's it, he's not my son anymore." Then again, I suspect the only reason his ds is all mates with him now is because they both can smoke pot and drink together, while being sleazy over women and making racist jokes and comments, so wahey isn't he great?

Another few weeks and ex will be living abroad. He thinks I don't know, and hasn't bothered seeing the dcs except briefly once in the last 7 months, and the few times previous to that, he only saw them because he was trying to get me to agree to a reconciliation. In a way, I'm actually glad though - SS telling me I need to make sure that the dcs are safe around him and not unsupervised, so visits were problematic at best anyway. Quite telling that he is in contact with the child he can drink and act like a juvenile deliquent with, but he's not bothering with the children that he needs to actually be a responsible parent for.

I am waffling between insulted on their behalf and relieved, tbh.

Alice reading your description of ex and DS made my toes curl... please, be SO glad that he is out of your life. Seriously, I think of all he's put you and DC's through. He is NOT going to change. Is he planning on telling you he's abroad once he is away?

At least it makes a tidy ending to the story for DCs for the time being, "x is abroad so that's why he can't come visit" (no experience here, I'm not sure if that is helpful or not, sincere apologies if it isn't!) I'm just fuming on your behalf. Please be relieved and not insulted!

thatsnot honestly, I'd say I'm probably more relieved than anything (even if I am slightly insulted that he can walk away from the dcs without a backwards glance). I am definitely glad he is out of my life. I agree that he's not going to change. I feel badly for his new girlfriend/fiance (his second fiance since we've separated) as she has two children in same age group as ds2. But then I'm sure he's told her he's a wonderful father but that I'm the evil cow that kept him from the dcs - it's pretty much what he tells everyone else.

No, I don't think he's planning on telling me. He didn't say anything a year ago when he moved across the country to live with his previous fiance. And yes, I will be sitting down with the dcs and letting them know as I don't want to bump into anyone that knows him in the area and have them say something in front of them and have them find out that way.

He's a prize shit Alice. That is all.

On that we absolutely agree ponygirl. What really gets me is that the dcs will be ripped apart when they're older when they know all this - and you know as they get older, they will ask. So frustrating that they will feel like it's their fault, that they weren't enough for him.

Alice, can you make it absolutely clear (without actually slagging him off) that their dad is doing something not very nice and not behaving very well? Hopefully the DCs will just realise that they dodged a bullet by not having their minds screwed about with more than they have been already.

ponygirl Yes, I've been turning it around and around in my head for the last week, trying to figure out the best way to put it so they understand without hurting them unnecessarily. Up until now, I've not really told them anything, and they haven't asked. The minute divorce was mentioned previously, ds1 fell utterly apart. I don't want to see that happen again.

they need to know as soon as possible Alice they need to be given information to process for themselves so that they feel valued enough to be told. At the moment they are left alone with their own assumptions about why their FWF has nothing to do with them, and that is more scarey. It would worry me that that don't ask, this might mean that they are too scared to and have made up their own versions [i'm horrible/unlovable, etc].

Do you have any examples around in your lives of bad fathers which will give them a way in to opening up, or at least seeing it happen to others so that they can reflect on his behaviour towards them?

Its going to be rough and rocky and messy, but this is his causing and you are only trying to protect them, but they do need to process this, and have something rather than a non.

They might be scared to ask you in case you are upset, there could be many reasons.

I would start talking randomly about other fathers, or watch films, read books with them, giving them the exposure to this, then things that fit for them they willl naturally make connections with a gain some understanding from that, and yes likely some very painful emotions. Depends on their age, but just the same as not all strangers are friendly, not all daddies are safe and like to hurt DC either [physically or through being very unkind psychologicaly and emotionally and some daddies hurt mummies very badly, and so on.

I hope this is helpful?! I know its a minefield I really do, and one that i am still navigating with care. One of my biggest struggles was holding it together for them while talking about things that i found distressing and was still coming to terms with myself.

I think the most important place to come to is one where they ARE asking questions about it so you can know they are facing it and dealing with it, and can answer their questions on their level, as the things that concern them are not the things that concern us.

sorry to hear they have suuch a shit of a FWF and you such a shit FW ex

you can also use his behaviour to draw boundaries around them. To say oblique things like, its not acceptable to call each other nasty names or threaten, etc. so they can hear that and see he's crossing boundaries.

Also exercises in expressing how they like to be treated. This worked really well for us, each writing our own lists of how we like to be treated and comparing them and writing them up as house rules for acceptable behaviour and whats expected if these things get broken (i.e. to fess up and apologise).

These are all strong things that support the good stuff, whilst making the bad obvious without having to call 'their own dad' on it specifically, as no matter how awful he is...

i would say stuff like we don't let peoople's anger decide our lives for us, they have to deal with their own anger, its nothing to do with us, noone minds that much if we are not quite ready on time or arrive somewhere a bit late.. (once upon a time this would induce screaming fits in DC)

fairyfi I plan on delving into it and discussing it the two weeks they are off over Easter. We don't really have any plans, so that will give them time to process it and ask questions, interspersed with a few day trips to get their minds off it here and there so they can wear themselves out a bit in a healthy way.

I have to give them plenty of time to come to terms with it, because otherwise they both struggle with their emotions.