Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I think this rollercoaster is far from finishing

That's the thing that's certain about all this nini, I am sorry to say. But now you know there will be a time when you can get off it (you just don't know when), whereas previously you weren't able to get off at all.

Have you seen a solicitor at all yet?

Not yet, thats another thing to do. Thinking of going back to see the one I went to 2 years ago as I quite liked her (presuming she still works there). Dont know if that means I won't get a free half hour again though?

Worth asking Nini as she'd probably have to take new instructions from you? Good luck with the roller-coaster!! and the getting off SOON!

how're you getting on Nini?

Whats been happening for you Madi - things had reached a point... are you out?

i have been making enquiries about leaving, just some very small tentative steps to find out my position, as i cannot wait around for it all to come around again ... once off that roller-coaster NEVER to return, just couldn't do it again.

Hope everyone else is doing alright?

I need to ring the solicitor to ask, job for Monday. Also estate agents coming on Monday woo! FW is away with work so i'm happy at the moment. This is how things will be soon

Little steps is good Thorns!

Hi sugar I've had an eventful week I went for colonoscopy today everything ok thank god it's my nerves living here is causing stomach upsets and digestive problems,he went pub last nite and then today went out drinking before I was home from hospital I had to head home myself after anaesthetic and still no sign of him and I could done with hand tonite,it's my cousins thirtieth tommorow nite I bet this why he going out he trying be smart but I'm gonna go,I'm still here and will be for a while until I pay of few bills I won't be able afford my own place until end of year!

nini having not been here for ages I have to say that you sound soooo very much more positive and in control. It's not to say that things aren't and won't be tough but 18 months ago your posts just had a different tone. Now I see action :) Fab to have the house valuations etc coming along.

that's I've done 3 lots of couples counselling. The first was awful. the counsellor remained firmly neutral which made me feel like I was in the wrong 50% of the time and so I agreed to 'compromises' that made things worse rather than better. The 2nd was good but we were in a different situation that I had walked out so H was in a more vulnerable place and so more willing to listen and take criticism. That counsellor did tell him that he was wrong. The 3rd is since we got back together and is more ongoing. It is through the church that we go to and they have told H that some of his views are totally wrong. Currently H is saying things like he is fed up of being judged by them and that they are ganging up on him. So I can totally see how unhelpful couples counselling is as at best you are so busy compromising that you lose ground, and if the counsellor does see a FW for FW then the FW accuses the counsellor of being biased.

sugar I'm not sure if I know you as a different name, but making enquiries and finding out your position is the first step to getting stronger. Planning is key :)

Hi charlotte Yes it is possible to live with a FW. I don't know whether H is still a FW or not. He definitely was a FW. And has made a lot of changes in some respects. The thing is I'm not sure exactly what a normal man is like because obviously no one is perfect and kind all the time. But what I do know is that by telling a few people his hold over me has gone. I can get some sense of normality by asking some trusted friends 'is this normal' and they either say "yeah my husband does that all the time" or "hell no, he is soooo wrong" So I think I'm slowly learning what is normal and what isn't.

Hi Madison . whilst that's great that you have no serious health issues but I'm totally shocked that he's gone out before you get home from a GA. Even for a FW I think that's . You enjoy the 30th. They really do try to spoil things we've been looking forward to. Hope you are tucked up in bed and feeling better

Thanks Fox. Its been a long time coming but I feel strong now. Strong enough to see it through.

Hope you're ok Madi. He really should be looking to after you and its horrible that he isnt - do you think you can last the rest of the year like this?

He don't care I'm in work in the morning last sat I had to ring in sick cos he didn't come home for them,so il have to get them up early and bring them to my mams in the morning if he don't come home!

Hi everyone - including fox - I remember you.

I have been lurking for a while. It's 3 weeks since h moved out. (My decision). We settled on 3 months no contact to start with. Because we had been living in separate rooms it wasn't a shock for me. I have been ok. I haven't really missed him.
I had a little blip last weekend when I saw him in the shopping centre and we walked past each other. 25 years of marriage to just pass each other by. It made me very sad.
So for now I am living with our youngest son 20 in our family home. I am relaxed. Not on edge. Not walking on egg shells. I'm a little lonely but I was lonely in my marriage.
He is doing the DV course which is 26 weeks. And he may have changed. I think it may be too late for me though.

I'm having a tough time with a married couple at work. They are negative, grumpy, moody etc. they speak to each other badly and it is causing me to be anxious. Although I don't show it. They have no idea about my home life. I find them so self absorbed. I have spoken to my boss about them this evening. So I'm hoping that they are dealt with and that situation improves.

Funny well done for seeing it through, it's the only way to change things and maybe the DV program will help him-- who knows, 26 weeks seems a long time. Where is he doing it? Did he want to go and book himself on of his own accord? Can you tell me how/where he found it (I seem to remember you're in north London too) as I've been in touch with someone who runs groups near me, he's given me some good advice (re serving divorce papers as I want H to have a place to turn to if he wants to get help, I know I shouldn't care but it's just that H doesn't see that he's got a problem. Which is, of course,the problem!) and I want to pass on the info to H but in the context of 'I'm leaving you anyway'.

Sorry seeing him at the shopping centre jolted you, did he see you?

Fox thanks so much for sharing your counselling experiences. Interesting!. I'm thinking of booking a session here www.relatenow.co.uk/content/controlling-men I've found this page really struck a chord with me, I contacted them and he said they wouldn't do counselling if he's abusive (referred me to men's centre as above) but I want to do one session,if H agrees in the interests of 'saving the marriage' , to hope that he can hear if someone else objectively points out to him that he is abusive (I know, I know...it's all been said before that this doesn't work! It might not happen if H doesn't want to go but at least I've offered it) he's heard it from me and from police and he's still not listened. He's very busy at work after a long dry spell so I need to time things carefully as my life is manageable at the moment. And I haven't heard from solicitor for weeks, I was expecting him to get in touch and say divorce papers had come back from court ready to serve. I don't want to chase him!

I thought things were ok, as he'd seemed to be in 'nice' cycle since I clearly told him I wanted divorce. But. It's clearly still bad. Example: he 'hates' our house and wants to sell (I like house/area but that's a different story). I've clearly said I'm not sure about buying together but I agree with selling (I can't buy him out and it's too big anyway). He won't 'hear' that, of course, but I agree with selling as it will enable us to move on from this 'stuck' position we're in. So he's been sending me places he is interested in via web, in the price range of xx instead of 1/2xx IYSWIM so he's thinking that we will buy together and he will choose our next place dickhead when I've sent him a couple of things in return he has discounted them, I have been told that I am to provide him with a list of my requirements and he will consider them, if they are valid (I'm playing along to see what he's thinking...) but I haven't bothered as I've no intention of taking him seriously.

Anyway, he sent over a few that were 'interesting' (in areas I'd like but as said above I'm so out of the game I've just said a polite 'hmm' to them) but he sent one that made me cringe...everything I wouldn't want (basically a repeat of our weekend-house development experience) a fixer-upper in an area that while nice is NOT where I'd want to live, never ever ever ever, the whole thing gives me creepy goosebumps thinking about being marooned with him, there. So, I told him in a put-my-foot-down way, I said NO WAY. And I got a shouty long lecture about how wrong I was and how he could really make some money off that place, and I started thinking, ok, this could be a diversion, I said ok let's go see it (knowing I've no intention of buying) and realised I'm giving out all the wrong messages, he was abusive and out of line to tell me I should like that house, he's an arrogant sh*t to assume I want to buy with him anyway. Part of his rant tonight was that he'd been 'slogging his guts out' for us all these years and he gets no appreciation or rewards and that I chose our current house (wtf? Not really!) he should choose the next one. All very abusive, underlying sense on entitlement in everything he's thinking. Anyway...going to talk to him again about divorce/I'm not happy/relationship counselling at some point this weekend.

If anyone has any words of wisdom for this poster I'm sure she would benefit. She thinks it's an age difference thing but that's the least of her worries

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2295929-Age-differences-does-it-matter?pg=

Hope everyone's weekends are uneventful...Monday soon!

Well done for taking that step Funny. I totally understand what you mean about the couple at work - seeing people argue makes me feel quite anxious now as well, makes my insides knot up. Hopefully your boss can help make things better for you. And yes, it may well just be too late for you in terms of being able to see yourself back with him. But if he's in any way genuine, he's doing the DV course to sort himself out and not to get you back.

thats - I am going to be a bit firm with you here. You are still engaging with him, sending him house suggestions etc. Now that you have told him it's over and you are divorcing him, as long as you continue to engage with him, even if you tell yourself it's just to go along with him, you are keeping the connection and the channels of communication open. It doesn't matter what he's thinking in terms of houses to buy. It doesn't matter if he never, ever gets it that he's abusive (here's a shortcut - he never will, even if an abuse specialist tells him so - he may say he does, and act like he does for a few weeks, but he will revert). I know you know you are sending him mixed messages, but it's not just him that this affects - by sending the mixed messages you are also confusing yourself and making it more difficult to take that final step. Your head is all spaghettified again. You need to be away from him to think clearly.

Stoaty thanks for the heads up, will post a link to the Loser list.

Hope you are doing ok Madi, and made it to work today.

Thanks pony for your insight, you're so right and I think I realised I was engaging with him just to smooth things over again, telling myself that he's working hard at the moment, he's got deadlines over the next few weeks, I can't go destabilising things for him now, blah blah.

And what's worse is I am compromising all the boundaries I'd put in place. I was essentially baiting him with the house suggestions, just to prove in some stupid way that he would reject them outright and that there's no way I'm moving on with him. I still dread the situation of us living together after I've thrown the grenade in of serving him the divorce papers.

He's rejected my offer of marriage counselling. It has never crossed my mind to try to 'drag' him there or spend effort convincing or wheedling him into coming. I honestly thought he'd want to as I clearly told him I wanted a divorce but stupidly my actions since than have eroded that. I feel really, really stuck right now and it's of my own making.

Small mercy, we 'talked' about the situation and he believes we are stuck in a rut so we both agreed on that. Trouble is, he thinks the way to fix it is to sell the house and buy a new place of his choice. So at least he's admitted that things aren't ok. I need to re instigate the divorce talk. Immediately.

Divorce through next week and he's hopefully moving out this weekend. Its grim
It was my decision after years of being controlled and unhappy. I had enough in September and divorce proceedings kicked off.
He has outbursts of total irrationality when he shouts at me. Calls me names, threatens to move abroad.Had one such rant on Saturday night.
Teenage kids...he is providing financially for them but when he goes he's said that's it. He's happy for them to visit but he wants nothing to do with their upbringing.

So he's cutting himself off....and gloating that I have to do everything.And he'll be a single man and can do what he wants.

I have been so much happier since I made the decision. And I can do it. But bloody hell, this week will be crap.

Arla a tough week perhaps but it sounds like you've done a marvellous job of taking control of the situation. And he's going next weekend? Plan the celebration, don't look back. Well done. Stay strong this week xx

Thankyou.
It's scary. He has always been in charge of the finances..surprise surprise..
But I have a great part time job where I am valued, good friends and great dcs. Realised how he has gaslighted, put me down, mocked my work and friends.
And because he considers me a freeloader and gold digger, I was called a fucking whore because I can't have loved him when we married 20 years ago.
And he won't take that back.

So this is a new chapter but my god, its the right move.

brave one Arla keep strong!!

he doesn't have a choice about supporting his teen DC. Thats not a negotiable. He brought them into the world and has responsibility to keep them alive and well!

Sadly, i don't think there's a law against abandoning your kids, but, likely at this stage its threats to keep you there, make you scared to leave or go ahead with the divorce.

i am glad he has rejected your offer of marriage counselling Thats.. something you need to be grateful for honestly! Can you imagine how you would fare in a counselling session designed to help you understand him?!???!!! and all the rubbish he would come out with. Can you see how invalidating that would be for you? i am glad you have escaped that torment.

A counsellor recently said to me that 'he must be feeling guilty now that all this has come to pass' - how he's lost everything, the family broken up.

Yes, he felt so guilty when he smashed my stuff up that he immediately went out and got it fixed -NOT
he felt so guilty about ranting and raging at me till i was on the floor in tears with him shouting in my face that he went off to bed to sleep and left me there.

but... when i started making 'its over' 'separation on the cards' type noises.. then he was so 'guilty' that he bought me regular MASSIVE bunches of flowers, and a brand new smart phone that he could stalk me with and promises of holidays that he'd never wanted to take time off work for before.

Needless to say, i thought that counsellor was crap not DV trained and very scare place to go to!

Just had another twenty minute tirade of abuse from him. Its like it spews out of him uncontrollably.
Horrible to listen to.
And he just poo poos my reasons for not wanting to be married to him. Won't listen.

arla you sound really strong. I think the old 'smile and nod' works there. Who cares if he poo poos your reasons for leaving. It doesnt matter if he understands or agrees or not. if you want to go then you have every right (and more than enough reasons) to do so. And I agree that a lot of the dramatic "you and the kids'll never see me again" type rubbish is just to scare you into staying (when in fact you probably think "if only")

thats does he think that moving to a new house (of his choosing) will solve all your problems . If so then he really has no understanding at all. I don't suppose the new house just happens to be further away from friends and family

Fox this: probably think "if only" absolutely if only! How different our lives would be. although i did spend a long time trying every which way to ensure the promotion of DC relationships with their FWF.

FFF i think thats a great step forward in speaking out about that married couple. they've no right to bring their marriage crap into work for others have to work with.. yuk!

Pony loser list? i've missed something clearly...

Had a bad weekend guys he didn't come home fri nite as I guessed would happen banged down door half 5 sat morning I wouldn't let him in I knew he was high didn't wanna listen to it he started kicking down door calling me names so I let him in my sister said I should of called police I was nervous didn't know what to do!it was my cousins birthday sat nite I went to party haven't been out in years and he said don't give out to me for been out you were to I have enough just wish I won few quid so I could say fuck you and your house!

It's the one in the thread opener, sugar - www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

I didn't post the link on their in the end, and now looks like the OP on that thread has disappeared. Hopefully she'll reappear at some point and have taken some of the advice on board.

Madi absolutely call the police if he does that kind of thing again. Have you spoken to 101 at all, the police non-emergency number? I got some good advice through that, you don't have to give your name - but if you do they could flag your number so that if you did have to call in the future it would come up as a high risk and they'd get someone there as a priority.