Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I think I recognise you too Fox, nice to hear from you . Its good to hear that things are improving but I guess with men like this do they ever think they are 'wrong'? Not in my experience. Believing that they're right and you're the 'wrong' one seems to be how they keep going.

I've got through my busy week so now is the time to forge ahead with getting the house on the market. But that means broaching the subject with him. Hes going to explode and I know i'm afraid of that. Need to put the big girl pants on and start the difficult process ahead.

Oh Fox, great to hear from you. I was thinking about you recently. It is possible to live with a FW. I did for years and I seem to have come through it ok! There are advantages, if he's good with DD, and just having an adult around sometimes. I would say: make sure you are always able to access support when you need to. And keep a little bit of distance between you and him: protect yourself, iyswim. And don't forget that you make the choices in your life.

Wow, nini, the house is ready to go on the market? Well done you for making it this far and good luck for the conversation with him.

Bizkit, that's great that you've got space from him!

pony yes, lying seems to be the standard. He's lied to everyone - me, the dcs, his family, his friends. I sometimes wonder how in the blazes he keeps track of it all (he probably doesn't actually, which is why the lies become apparent eventually). His family and friends just seem to gloss over it and treat everything he says as gold. A bit odd, but then, I don't rely on their input anyway.

thank you for the link Grundy.

Ds1 is only 11. Many people think that children can't be abusive. But I am with camhs and relate ATM and they both think he is.
He is autistic, but very mild. I have been through school, social services, paediatrician. NAS and camhs. everything. No one has any suggestions. He is well behaved at school and they think he's an angel. Its all me, you know!!

Camhs told me to turn the other cheek and not be so demanding. Not to ask him to not speak to us (dh as well, but it has always really been me) like that.

When they said this, my heart sank. I felt like screaming at them: is that all you've got? If it was an abusive husband you would tell me to LTB, but because its my son, I can do nothing but turn the other cheek. I felt like screaming : have you heard yourselves!

But I refrained.

Now I pray I can get through the next 6 years or so until he leaves home.

Why should I have it do this. I've never been with an abusive man in my life and I don't deserve this.
But the authorities don't see it that way!

He is so loving is some ways. But he is so nasty, vicious and manipulative.
He is totally detached and doesn't care who looks after him so long as he gets what he wants when he wants. He said so. He just s wants x box, tablet, good food.

You can't help someone if he doesn't want to be helped.
I could read the books that you have listed. But is there any point? I have read every aspergers book by Tony Atwood etc. The explosive child. I have examined myself till the cows come home.

He thinks its always someone else's fault. He takes no responsibility. He thinks there is no problem. He blames everyone else. Always. Zero responsibility.

So what sthe point in trying to help someone when they don't want to be helped.

In fact fuck that. I'm not even trying to help him anymore. I've been doing that for the a least 7 years and got nowhere.

I'm trying to help myself here!!!

I need to learn to get thorough life with my abusive son. I am bitter with god/life that I should even have to do this, but it seems like I have to!!!

I don't know what I ever did t( in a previous life) to derseve this shit. But I am very resentful that I am left dealing with it.

Hello Chaise and welcome

I thinK DC can certainly be abusive, very, highly, dangerously so, and evenn more dangerous to leave it go.

They often become abusive from being around an abuser who puts you down and treats you like crap generally, they pick up on it, develop habits, ways of getting what they want. They become highly abusive. One of mine was this way, screaming and shouting in my face, pursuing me round the house, not respecting any boundaries.

Not any more I'm happy to say, but it was hell, because i'd also just separated from a FW too, who got considerably worse, and PTSD flared up for me, so i had a complete melt-down, but with support, managed to realise that I was allowed to have boundaries and not be shredded for asserting them.

The boundaries are key. Do Cahms not think so? How are you supposed to have boundaries? Yes, yes, I know about ignore and i ignore a lot, but with abusers certainly igoring is nnot really an option because thats a cue to escalate to make sure they get heard, that was certainly my situation.

I picked certain things that i was not going to back down on, and argued myself into them knowing i had to stick to my guns no matter what, and there was a lot! There was a lot of self-harming too (DC). Although there's still rudeness and trying to goad I do a lot more deflecting and leaving behind, and its better accepted, but its taken time. the suicide attempts on their part and the self-harming has all stopped and there is much more calmness in the DC. I struggled to find any help with this at all, but i had some sense of support because I was going to the freedom programme at the time due to FW.

With DC they are growing, and changing and hopefully developing emotional maturity, learning how to meet boundaries and deal with themselves, so not 'abusers', but certainly much abuse is possible. Whereas FWs, abusers, and not developing and growing, but just honing their skills at coercion, very different thing.

Can I just ask.. does he get 'x-box, tablet, the [demanded] food'?

i forgot to say, but do get obviously that he's not getting it from an abusive DF role model, and of course, if there's autism, i'm not advocating a way of dealing with autism.

BUT! if he can do it at school, he absolutely can do it at home.

i have a friend who's child 'magically grew out' of autism. Lovely lad, but he showed very abusive behaviours in AND out of school. Even stabbing a class-mate with a pencil.

He's a lovely lad now, works well at school, still fights with his sisters but certainly not violent, just regular teen stuff, and can meet your eye and chat, pretty engaged for a teen.

I'm thinking its not necessarily all a total loss is all, that change is possible, but it has to be so hard when the people around you tell you to do nothing?!

Nini big girl pants hoping for you. Keeping it all crossed. Celebrate when your house goes up for sale, its a big deal and its all gonna change. Please stay safe though and have a get out plan if 'kicking off' looks to get intimidating and risky, you can just call 999?

Charlotte not seen you for ages, i imagine you won't recognise me any more..

chaise welcome. So sorry you're dealing with this. I have a dc (although he is younger) with ASD (and a few other things), so I know sometimes it's an uphill battle the whole way. Their thought processes can be so different IME.

Is this CAMHS person for you or for him? I think that if you are not getting individual counselling for yourself, it might be something to think about. If nothing else, it's a sounding board and somewhere you can work through things and come out the other side intact. Somewhere safe IYSWIM. I've been having counselling for the last year and it has made such a difference for me.

I think that perhaps a meeting with the CAMHS person, along with someone that can be your advocate - someone that has YOUR interests in mind as well as his - might be an approach. Point out that you cannot simply let him ride roughshod over the entire household - it's not healthy for anyone, and it certainly does him no favours in the long run.

Have you video recorded any of his behaviour at home, so you can show them exactly the behaviour you are referring to? It sounds like they don't believe you, which is not good. The problem that many people don't understand is that children can be seemingly well behaved at school and then fall apart at home because they are holding it in all day, so by the time they get home they are unable to hold it in any longer. I don't know based on your post whether or not that is the case with your ds, although I'm sure you have a better idea whether or not that's what's happening here.

I'd also invite you to come onto the SN boards here on MN. There are a number of parents there of children with ASD that are in that age group and I am certain they can also offer advice and support, as some of them are deaing with similar issues.

Thank you Alice. But I have been on the SN boards for years.
I just dont seem to be getting anywhere.
At work. Will post more later.

Sorry. I either haven't seen you there or this is a NC for you, which is fair enough. Is residential an option for him at all?

So we had the discussion about the house and hes refusing to put it on the market without a 'financial agreement '. Hes stalling to make it as difficult as possible. So I've arranged to see a mediator tomorrow (individual session first) and will be getting some house valuations in the next few days. Slowly steps are being made. Baby steps now, but the more you walk the bigger the steps become. I hope.

Has he said what form this financial agreement has to take, nini? Here in Scotland we can get separation agreements, which are binding and a prelude to divorce. They cover things like finances, child contact, division of non-house assets, etc.

Having a financial agreement before selling kind of makes sense in a way, then any potential sales don't get nixed by him refusing to agree to how the division of funds etc works. He could really hold you over a barrel (as my FW did) if he knows you want to accept an offer but don't want to accept his terms, or make things drag out further at the other end. So best to get it sorted up front, and good idea to get it done through mediation.

And definitely get some house valuations done, you don't need his say-so for that and it will give you information. Absolutely re baby steps getting bigger the more you take them. I like that analogy.

chaise so sorry you are in this situation. I have a friend in a similar one who is also getting no help whatsoever - SS keep opening a case and then closing it, mainly because they don't know how to deal with it I think. What about going to your MP or something like that?

He hasn't said Pony but thats the kind of thing you'd expect a mediator to cover (the one I'm seeing will at least). You're right, we do need to arrange things before the house is sold but no reason why we can't start the process. I feel weirdly calm about it all.

Sound advice I think Pony makes a lot of sense, and shame we don't have that in rest of UK. I think if he's saying this already Nini it does sound likely you could run into trouble when it comes to a potential buyer offering and you wanting to accept and him using it to play cat and mouse iwth you at a time of intensity. so as much as i think no harm in getting teh ball rolling, i think you may have to both sign something to put it on the market? I hope the mediator will help with this, getting the financials sorted.

There might be something you can go to together, courses, Chaise ? or something that you could just book for the both of you where there is supervision for the 'overbearing/dominant' ones. A strong facilitator i mean. but something that you both enjoy with third party intervention alongside?

Hey how's all of you been doing had a hard week this week going to the hospital Friday for colonoscopy doc thinks it ins with stress of everything very nervous x

Madison hope all ok, don't get more stress from worry. Good to know whats going on anyway, to put your mind at rest.

Nini so glad to hear you're feeling calm, I would think it's a good idea to have a financial agreement in place anyway...look how far you've come! I bet you're calm because at last, it's real and that great uncertainty isn't hanging over your head anymore. for you. How can you get everything in place now, to put the house on the market?

I'm no further. Since telling him I want a divorce he's in creepy nice mode. It doesn't help that he's got some potentially lucrative work on now, so he's rubbing it in that I will be comparatively poor if I leave him. And I find myself wondering if its really so bad? I'm thinking about seeing a 'couples' counsellor, not for counselling but to have a man (as opposed to me) to tell him he is abusive and his behaviour is wrong. PS I totally know that wont work! Just desperation on my part. But I'm coping for now.

Thanks thats. Meeting with the mediator went ok, now FW needs to see them too. Next stop, house valuation. But he's being reasonable, which worries me.

I really wouldn't recommend couples counselling in these circumstances thats. I've been there, you won't get the validation you need. You know that don't you. The niceness is part of the cycle, you know that too. But it makes it harder. You need to find a way to remind yourself that hes being nice to suck you back in. And so what if you won't have as much money (I sure won't). As long as you can pay the bills and keep a roof over your head it's all you need. And life will be better without him.

thats you can see a counsellor, but no matter how many people tell you he is abusive and his behaviour is wrong and you should leave, your FW will never ever tell you this. And that's really hard, because I know I wanted just a glimmer of acknowledgment from him. Which never came, so I had to find that acknowledgment within myself.
You need to believe it for yourself, and allow yourself to do this. And as long as he is still in contact with you while you are feeling so uncertain, you will continue to prevaricate I think. Remember how strong you were when you were away in America (from your thread) and not speaking to him? That physical distance and lack of verbal contact allowed you to see how utterly ridiculous and abusive the one form of contact he could do (email) was. I think you need to go back and read those emails.

Hello MadiSon - sorry to hear you are so stressed, how has he been this week?

Had to laugh nini at your comment about being worried about his reasonableness! I know that feeling. With the mediation in place you're on your way...although no doubt it will not be easy going over the next few months. Stay strong!

X-post nini
Glad mediation went ok - think he'll agree to see them? Don't question the reasonableness - he will have some twisted reason, I'm sure but for now just enjoy the lull and don't let your guard down.

Thanks pony exactly what I need to hear can't believe I'm still here. I make my excuses! Was supposed to have meeting yesterday with an excellent specialist in abusive men who runs a centre near me but he cancelled. Don't know what I was hoping to get out of it (could put divorce on hold for a year while H attends men's group but H has to want to do it...blah blah blah!) I need him to come out of brittle-nice mode and really p*ss me off again! I've got a cold that just started today...he said gleefully that I wouldn't be able to go into work tomorrow, he's still trying to get me to quit. Drip drip drip! Might get solicitor to send him the 'letter' soon, h only has my word for it so far as papers haven't come back to be served as yet. Off to bed anyway, I've got to try and sleep off this cold.

Hope you feel better soon thats.

I don't know if he'll agree Pony, we'll see. I think this rollarcoaster is far from finishing. There will be more loops i'm sure hah.

Hope you feel better soon thats!