Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

so sad all round. they will just blame us for this tho of course to be expected. They have this amazing knack of effing up the peak times, when there's potential for things to be good, and a need to make the best for the DC. I remember the FW ex crying on one of DCs birthdays sitting in the bedroom refusing to come down to go the party because 'nobody wanted him there' ??? Hello? Your DC???

They really do know so well the powerful tools that DC are and they will never waste a second using it to their advantage. Realising they are such bad fathers is very upsetting indeed.

Good luck with your plans Nini this will be something good in your new year for you both, and as much as they do these abadoning things their DC will know them for who they are and realise that this way is pain and make their choices, this for you too Alice same games going on for you too.. keep on keeping on. Detach detach.. fa la la la laaa

What do you guys think I should do about Xmas presents I have bought everything (he knows this) but hasn't said a word to me, hasn't asked what I've bought or if I need any money, he hasn't been around hardly at all the past 3 or 4 weekends, hasn't helped with anything in the run up to Xmas. still waiting for a poxy bit of string to be put up for the cards which I can't do, done everything else.

I had a feeling he may of bought them a few bits as he said he went Xmas shopping but hadn't said much more so I've had to ask him tonight and he said he has got them a few bits but quite vague about what exactly, and if I hadn't of asked would he of told me, I don't know

Shall I wrap and label all the stuff I've bought from just me and leave him to it with his or am I brewing trouble, just feel so resentful again, I've spent hundreds on them, and all the food and he hasn't offered anything! plus I'm still waiting for him to pay me back for the bill I had to pay that he was suppose to!
just being an awkward twat days before xmas.

Into the darkest corner is another good book to read. I think I should join this thread. Been in an emotionally abusive relationship for about 10 years now.

Bizkit I think no matter what you do here it'll be 'wrong' in his eyes (ie whatever you do he will twist to make out that you are the devil incarnate). Personally I think you just putting your gifts, that you have bought and paid for (as in previous years, I'm sure) from you alone is fine but I'm sure if you do that something will be said. But let him. Could you say in passing, more or a statement than a question, eg 'I have wrapped all the presents from me, I have put them under the tree/in the cupboard' - anything to just make that statement then he can't say he doesn't know.

Welcome, chemistc. It's a good thread for support - and when you're in the thick of an EA relationship, you need a good deal of that.

Bizkit, that would all make me feel jittery and uneasy. I hated that idea FW wove that presents I bought were from both of us but presents he bought were from him. And were made a great deal of, by him.

Well, the DCs may well grow up believing all his spin about himself. Let them. Unlike him, I don't buy them presents so that they'll think I'm a great parent.

I suspect the truth will out at some point for both of us, Bizkit. Can you focus on making sure the DCs have a lovely Christmas and try to ignore his provocations as much as possible? I think it's the experiences that make the best memories, anyway - the parent who sat and played with the presents with the DC, rather than the actual giver. (My DCs usually forget who gave what pretty much immediately anyway!)

We got a lovely package from the secret santa on MN. It was so nice to know someone was thinking of us, when we were feeling just a bit invisible IYSWIM. I had a brief moment of sadness though, seeing that someone who doesn't personally know the dcs took the time to choose something special for them, when their father couldn't be bothered to make the effort. Not sure what that says about me though. I am thankful and it was lovely - the dcs were thrilled. But there's that niggly little part of me that resents my ex that he gave them a big bag of HALLOWEEN sweets each for Christmas. I'll be willing to bet he chose gifts for his girlfriend and her two young boys.

sigh. That's it. I'm putting him out of my head now, as it only irritates me. Just a little vent.

chemistc I read your thread on the Relationships board. Sorry you have to be here. But you do. Hope this thread can help you figure a way out of the fog.

Alice how lovely about your MN secret santa. I think the spirit behind it is wonderful, people supporting other people, but understand what you mean about feeling sad that KD can't even do that much. But that's why you are here, because he is the way he is, which is entitled and self-centred. Hope you enjoy opening your parcels.

ponygirl Yes, it's a lovely thing. It really did lift my spirits, I have to admit. We've been feeling rather invisible lately, as my family is abroad (and it's very much out of sight, out of mind with them I think - so no cards or anything from them) and ex's family has pretty much ignored us completely, as has my DD who is cross with me (over something that is not my fault). Lovely ex MIL brought a gift for each of the dcs, perfectly chosen, and for that (as well as taking the time to come see them) I am very happy as the dcs were thrilled to see her. So it's nice to be thought of, I guess. Between being separated and the disabilities/SNs issues both dcs have, I feel quite isolated sometimes.

when does it end? DC 9 broke something bought by FW ex. Broke down sobbing inconsolably. I was trying to be supportive, but was shocked at the strength of his outburst. The first words out of his mouth were?

"he paid a lot of money for these he will be upset" ???!!!!

He was breaking his heart over something because his FW of a father will be upset?

his first thoughts were not for the loss of this thing for himself, but his father?

We've had this before with things that are his [the gifts he buys DCs that have to stay at his and not allowed here], and the gifts that I give them that end up not being allowed back home here either, some of which are actually my things... like games that the dc have taken over to all play together.

Maybe its just the festive season getting me down but hate that its still going on and yes, I know, it can't be as bad because contact is so limited, but still it goes on!

he doesn't see anything wrong with this... how do you challenge this with your DC?

Hope everyone is having a good (and safe) Christmas!

We've had our "phone call to the dcs" from stbx. He rang about 9am, while the dcs were still in mid "woohooo" about their presents, so of course they barely stayed on the phone with him and he hung up before I could tell him if he rang back later in the day he'd get more of a chance to actually TALK to them. Total time on phone, under 2 minutes. This will be my fault as well, even though I handed the phone to each child and actively encouraged them to talk to him.

But... on with the day now.

Merry Xmas to all, sending much love and support over the next few days.

Think we are going to go through Xmas saying as little as possible to each other
big row last night as he never came home for Xmas eve and not even a phone call to let us know what he was doing and when I tried to call to see if he wanted to speak to the kids before I put them to bed he ignored my phone calls
came back around midnight and didn't say a word to me, so things got a bit tense as I was sat wrapping all the presents I paid for myself...myself.

of course I need to stop having a pop at him and it's all my fault. Of course he wants to be here on Xmas eve but needs to get the kids used to not having him around, and I'm getting what I want...idiot
I give up arguing with him as he is getting more verbally abusive, dickhead was a new one last night.

Just praying we can get through the next few days and I will have to bite my tongue over the unpaid rent and how I will manage after Xmas having paid for everything with no help.

Off to try and put on a brave face for kids

Hello there, I haven't been on here for a while, new job (good), struggling with myself (difficult). I'm fairly worn down with being told how evil I am for "destroying family", "taking his family away" etc. I think he has paranoid personality disorder, the symptoms are spot on.

Thats I know what you mean about comfort of family but also being reminded of why we got into an abusive rs in the first place.

Hope you all managed to get through xmas day enjoyably with your DCs with limited FWittery.

Although all events seem to be cause for them to raise their ugly heads, its the point isn't it? To make sure you are knocked off any temporary levels of enjoyment!

you 'saved' the DC and yourself Breath!!! and well done, its so hard to do, so every time you hear such bunkum (sp?) you can replace it with this good to hear of new

Despite the long abusive relationship hangover, especially in the run up to Christmas, we had a wonderful day full of everything Christmas should be (without any other family or partner that is - and all the better for it) .

I really think that talk of disorders takes the heat off the abuser. Am I alone in this?

There is a cycle of abuse. Everything goes around in circles/cycles, and nothing ever gets resolved. Some people have PD's and doesn't eqate to them being abusive. Others are abusive and you could probably diagnose any one of us as being somewhere on the spectrum of PD's?

I think it really muddies the waters of abusers, and throws a different somehow sympathetic perspective onto an abuser who, poor him, is suffering with a PD?

We end up concentrating on finding a label for what it is, when what it is doesn't matter does it, its abusive and painful, and us diagnosing it is probably incorrect and doesn't make any difference to it being abuse?

Knowing its abuse is what makes the difference to our getting out and getting help and moving on IME... Taken at face value the realisation of what is /has been happening to us and the DC is what really matters to save our sanity and lives.

I have found the link here on PD's to be a deversion away from the abuse, trying to find reasons/excuses for it, and there is abuse going on in those forums too . I think its primarily an american preoccupation that everyone diagnose each other, family, friends, partners with a pd and work from that basis instead of just accepting the behaviour for what it is, abuse.

sugarcoated yes, to some extent, I agree. Stbx was ALWAYS going on about his "depression" and how any behaviour was down to that and how I was simply "not supportive" of him and his depression. He also claimed it was an anger management issue - however, he could control it with anyone else, just not us at home. So nope, not anger management then, eh? It's too easy to excuse it. I don't buy that it had anything to do with his depression, as he could still control his behaviour around others. And I know others that have been through clinical depression that didn't treat their families abusively.

So no... I would say that most times, I feel that the abuser chooses his behaviour to get his own needs (whatever they happen to be) met, even if it's at the expense of someone else. And quite frankly I don't CARE if it's an illness or condition. I just don't want it around me.

I feel I've given H so much scope to behave appallingly because of his depression /bad childhood /testosterone issues /sensitive nature /genius tendencies (deluded me!) and am thoroughly fed up with myself for helping to create this ridiculous situation! Glad Xmas over... Papers ready, letter from solicitor ready to email. Monday target date. I'm trying to keep strong!

Never mind how he is and what he thinks - how are you? Are you still under the same roof?

Hope everyone is doing ok-ish over this difficult Christmas period.

We haven't helped to create it, thats its all his fault, and I did the say, and so does any decent human being... giving them excuses for their behaviour, being sympathetic to their struggles, presuming them to be things they are struggling with and we want our loved ones to be ok so we do what we can to help or excuse them.

How would we know that they are in complete control of manufacturing their anger? It was a total shock to me to discover this. I saw it when the police turned up here and the transformation was complete, from Monster to Mr Nice Guy in the blink of an eye, shocking to behold, and he told them what a nice guy he was too!

I was however in a complete state of shock whih I couldn't just turn off, it took me ages to even speak and stop shaking.

We don't know what the hell is going on so how are we culpable for creating it? We don't know which way is up.

What I'm trying to say is to be easier on ourselves, and I'm glad you don't care whether its illness/condition, Alice it is their fault totally.

There'll always be an excuse, illness/depression/alchohol/stress/family background... no excuse for abuse

I think that we reach a point where we're allowing them to make excuses for their behaviour by blaming other things, which then allows them to say "see? it's not ME, it's THAT!" so that gives them permission (in their mind) to continue the behaviour as it's "not their fault" IYSWIM. I know that stbx very bluntly told me after a counselling appointment that the counsellor said that he didn't know WHY stbx behaved the way he does, so until they figured it out and came up with a plan to change it, that I would just have to put up with the behaviour.

I called bollocks to that. No way would a counsellor tell him that. But every time I confronted him about behaviour, he resorted to "you're just not supportive of my depression.." I think it's clear he used it as an excuse for his behaviour.

my ex said the counsellor told him i was 'a fucking controlling bitch'.

whats so bad is that I believed him! then, some time later, I realised a counsellor just wouldn't say that, he also told me that the counsellorr had wanted me to join the counselling???? (because he was only getting one side of the 'story'). I don't think a counsellor does that either?

for mine most of it was blamed on alchohol, i 'gave' him a freebie excuse of stress, and the rest of the time 'it didn't happen' or he 'didn't remember' it.

Really struggling here. Its been hellish with worse to come. I can't take much more. In just a few weeks I can start getting out for real. Till then...its all I can do not to kill him in his sleep.

my heart goes out to you Nini stuck right in the thick of it desperate for escape.

Try to get out and tire yourself physically while you make your plans, knowing each minute is one nearer.

bide your time like you say, it won't be long now, but sometimes an hour can seem like forever can't it.

If you think you can't safely stay then please just leave... head to the police or court for emergency orders to get him out. You can have them within the day and return with the police.

They can push you to do rash things, and your life is worth more than this, so if you feel this way weigh up the imperative to stay/leave for safety's sake. Women are pushed to attack in extremes but we know he's just not worth it, and he would love it if you did, he would hold his hands up and say 'look everyone at this mad woman attacking me, get her out' - it might be what he's hoping for.

Thanks for the sensible words Thorn, you're right. I know its not something I would actually do, but like you say they make you want to.

Ive been busying myself with tidying but I'm supposed to be studying for an exam in a few weeks (he always goes up a gear when i'm studying) so if I bury my head in my books I should be able to distract myself.

2015 must be a better year!