Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks Alice,I haven't spoken to him about the solicitor yet but he seems to have taken a bit of a u turn and has txt me saying he wants to go out and talk things through even if it means admitting it's over and came home yesterday and tried to hug me and said sorry.
Not sure how to take this sudden change but he is being nice, I just hope it not another ploy at trying to make me feel guilty again

maybe you can ask for a definite action from him so that you can believe his intentions (whilst he's in this potentially hoovering mood)?

if he's prepared to put something on paper about removing his name fromm the lease and stick it in the post box tonight?

personally, there's no need to 'go out' and bit weird isn't it to 'go out' to talk through this stuff? or is that just me

if he means it he can write to request he's removed from the lease, or even better pack his bags over the w/end? tonight?

Eurgh..don't know what's wrong with me tonight. Sat here crying and I'm not even sure why. KD has stopped skyping DC, didn't see them last weekend, hasn't arranged anything for this weekend. Just one of those days maybe.

Curt I think it's the "let down" after a long period of stress. I get that occasionally. It's like your body says "okay, I can no longer function on high alert all the time, you need to release some of this stress" and then I'm a bit weepy and mope around some. I usually feel better after the worst of it passes.

In the last 9 wks, KD has seen the dcs for an hour, and not much of that was spent with them.

alice you could be right there. It was all very full on full on contact and pushing for reconciliation..now that's all petered out and ground to a halt, he's back to practically ignoring DC and whilst I've finally exhaled, it also shows me how wound up I was..again! Probably just the only outlet right now is to have a good cry, an early night, and get up tomorrow feeling relieved.

Also hotpot's thread really brought back some sad memories from when DD1 was newborn and I saw messages from OW. He managed to taint all those precious first weeks with our beautiful baby . What an utter git.

Yes, think I need a bit of a brain purge tonight. Crying should help.

Your KD, alice..what a twat. Seriously. What on earth goes on in their heads..

Curt Hope you're feeling a bit better today. I find that sometimes a good cry or mope about, followed by doing something productive around the house (now you see why I'm doing loads of DIY, eh? ) makes me feel a great deal more positive.

And yes, KD is apparently focusing all his efforts on being Mr SuperDad to his adult son instead. He and apparently all his family members are studiously pretending that ds1 and ds2 don't exist, from what I can see. Fine by me, as the drama he creates just upsets them anyway.

So after making no effort to see DC for 2 weeks, he dropped in with sweets yesterday afternoon and wanted to discuss christmas. We've already planned he'll come over xmas eve evening, stay over that night so we can do xmas morning, stay for dinner and then head off after the Queen's speech. I thought we had this sorted. So he asks what I'm doing after he's left and why does he have to leave. I said I might be going to my parents or that might be boxing day, if it's boxing day then he can stay longer on xmas day and I'll let him know asap. All very calm and, I think, I'm being as flexible as possible. He completely blows up, starts shouting that if we're going to my parents why can't he, why do I have to go there in the first place..all in front of DC. I tell him to leave.

After that he phoned, I hoped to chat calmly, maybe apologise..nope. He's told me he's either here for the duration or not at all, calling me and my mum selfish immature bitches and that he won't see DC at all over xmas if he can't come to my parents. WTAF?? I hung up on him and text that until he was ready to speak to me calmly and respectfully I have nothing else to say on the matter. Spent the rest of last night feeling drained after he kept sending texts saying 'all or nothing take your pick' amongst other things. Ended up switching my phone off.

Was I unreasonable? I thought I'd given him the best bits of xmas with the DC ..and xmas dinner thrown in! Is it too much to ask that this year we get to spend a bit of time with my family? ( can you tell he's wrecked xmas before?)

He's told me he's either here for the duration or not at all

There you go. He's given you the options. Tell him "not at all" and have done with it.

He doesn't get to choose how long he stays in your house. He doesn't get to choose what you do with the children all day on Christmas Day. He doesn't get to force his presence at your parent's house. Absolutely not.

If he's insisting on "all or nothing" then tell him nothing and STICK TO IT. I think it's a bad idea (IMO obviously) to allow him to stay overnight Christmas Eve. He's clearly looking at that as "I'm here, I'm staying over, I'm part of the family, I get to make decisions."

Tell him he has the option of coming over between x time and x time on Christmas Day and that is it. He has until xxx date to make his decision, after which time you will be making alternative plans with your family and those plans will be final. This puts him 1-squarely in the position of "guest" in your house. 2-calls his bluff. 3-outlines exactly what is available and that is it.

I don't envy you on this one. Mainly because I suspect I will be engaging in the same nonsense with my KD at some point soon. He did stay over last year Christmas Eve (on the sofa). It will not be happening again this year.

alice I did text him along the lines of him knowing I was being more than fair, that my parents have no obligation (or desire!) to include him in their plans, and that he no longer has the right to dictate my time or dish out ultimatums. Christmas is supposed to be about the DC but as usual he's making it all about him.

I'll send him one text today, I think, outlining an offer and a timescale for when I need confirmation. He's essentially cutting off his nose to spite his face on this one, as I won't be controlled. He won't spoil christmas for my DC, he'll spoil it for himself. And blame me. He's spit his dummy because he wants it all his bloody way.

Curt I think that texting any type of explanation is a "no go" with him. Remember when we were living with our KDs, how in the face of a constant barrage of uncooperative shouting, we attempted to explain ourselves and rationalise it for them, hoping they would then "get it"?? This IMO is what that is, when you're texting this to him.

Look at it this way. A RATIONAL man would realise you were being fair, that he has no right to demand to go to your parent's house, and that he has no right to dictate to you. A RATIONAL man would see that this is ridiculous and that he is only spoiling his own chances of having a good time at Christmas with his children.

But here's the clincher. HE IS NOT A RATIONAL MAN. Therefore, all the explanations in the world are not going to do it. It's going to have to be:

I think you just need to present his options as...
1- time on christmas day from x to x with the dcs, after which time he will leave.

-or-

2- nothing.

He has until xxxx to make a decision, after which time, the default choice will be option 2 - nothing. And that will be the end of it.

There is no logical reason why he has to be there for both Christmas Eve AND Christmas Day. He gave up the right to do the happy families thing when he was abusive. Now he deals with the fallout. My KD is going to be angry about this as well, but these will be his choices:
1- time on christmas eve with the dcs
2- time on christmas day with the dcs
3- time on boxing day with the dcs
4- nothing.

He can choose one and the arrangements will be made. I want to relax and enjoy Christmas with the dcs, not walk on egg shells throughout the holiday. And guaranteed at some point his temper will rear up, it always does. And when it does, the visit will be over. Immediately.

alice Yes, that's true. A rational man (which he purports to have become ) would realise he was wrecking his chances of having an enjoyable 'family' christmas with our DC. But as you so rightly remind me, he's not rational. It's still about control and him feeling he has a god given 'spot' in our home. I just want to say to him you're being a knob, why are you being a knob, please stop being a knob. Then I remember it's his default setting and just as he was when we were together, he can pull off a charming, reasonable facade until something doesn't go his way.

Why do I keep forgetting that?

I will outline his options and go from there. Like you, I want to relax and enjoy xmas, spend time with my parents at some point etc. Sigh. I should have known he'd do this. Kicking myself now.

I just wanted to bring this up to the front again, so it's there for anyone that wants to post.

KD is still NC at the moment. That's about 2 months now. I'm actually feeling more and more like myself again, much happier. I do worry about what he's going to demand as far as contact is concerned at Christmas (if he even bothers, who knows at this point?), but I am trying to keep that concern on the back burner if possible.

Hope everyone is doing well and is safe.

Good morning alice It's about 3 weeks since KD spent any real time with DC, not going to count him spending 10 minutes here last weekend making demands about christmas. He hasn't text or tried to call about setting up contact. I suppose that will be my fault, don't forget before he pushed for the reconciliation he said I had to make the effort to get him to see DC. Sod that for a game of soldiers. He has my number and he knows where we live. If he wanted to see them, he would.

Some kind soul told me he's been bleating all over fb about how hard he tried with me but I'm just too broken, and how it's so sad blah blah blah. Wonder if he ever stops to think about why I'm broken - and who caused it!

NC has it's benefits, I'm glad to hear you're feeling more like yourself, alice, and yes, christmas is on the back burner for me too. He's in no position to start making demands. All or nothing. Pfft. 'All' stopped being an option long ago.

Strength to all and a happy saturday

Curt Glad you're doing well. You sound so much stronger and more confident in regards to his demands. Very happy for you - it makes coping so much easier, doesn't it? And yes, my KD did the same thing - bleated on and on all over fb about how horrible I am. I too had people contacting me to pass along the drama, to which I responded "He's no longer a part of my life, I don't need to know what he says about me - I don't really care. But thanks anyway." Finally, they've stopped telling me - what a huge relief!

alice it's amazing how spending a bit of time in their company or conversing with them a lot just clouds everything. I could feel myself softening towards him, wondering 'what if'..thank the lord he couldn't keep up the charm or who knows..I may have been right back to square one! Love how much stronger I feel for the lack of contact, back to realising how lucky I am to be out.

I keep telling people I'm not interested in what he's up to ..hopefully they'll get the message soon

It is. I was horrified when I looked back after that wobble in August how close I came to being utterly sucked in. The moment he was out of my head, it was "mental slap" and "What were you THINKING??" to myself. Whew!!

Same here. As if I was even considering it! We read threads on here, women who want out, finding it hard to make the first step etc. And here we are, well and truly out of those horrific marriages, thinking about dipping our toe BACK IN! For some reason that shows me just the amount of hold these men had over us, and still do to a certain extent.

NO MORE WOBBLES.

I'll drink to that. NO MORE WOBBLES.

I think I just need to remember he is kryptonite. It weakens and destroys you. Stay away from it.

Kryptonite. Agreed! I like that

Eugh what a week I've had, my DS has had major problems at school.

Ex has Carried on with his u turn and been really nice and over caring, even paid bills and withdrew the rent in time. We have got on well and had plenty to talk about with the issues we had with DS's school

Until tonight when he totally lost it with my son cos he wouldn't eat his dinner. Threw his dinner on the floor to make him clean it and continued to yell and broke his bed guard off his bed. I had to tell him enough and intervene.

I was reconsidering going back to the idea of moving with him again because I desperately need to get the kids out of this area and into better schools and the easiest and quickest way is with him but now again not so sure.

Still haven't had this talk but he has admitted its over, still don't know what's caused the u turn, another women or just trying to be agreeable and nice to stop me pushing forward with solicitors and such

Hi Alice and curt

I'm still in one of those marriages. Although getting nearer to being out

need some support know you lot will understand

ive been posting various threads on what im going through - Im sinking -its the constant mixed messages doing my head in and I feel like i have no say in anything. The big hurdle is looming which is whether we get to stay in the family home - i doubt this is possible but DH says it is but it will be on his terms. We had a psycotherapist at our mediation session - i asked him what his background was and he told me he negotiates with hostage situations. That is exactly what I feel like - I might as well be trying to negotiate with a monkey. DH has told me to stop being angry and I need to move on- How can i move on when we are in limbo and having to dance to his tune all the time - its playing a game where the rules constantly change - I know ill get through this but its dealing with it in on a daily basis at the moment - i just cant get away from it - I'm aready on Ads & seeing counsellor - some words of advice please

FFF I'm actually embarrassed and at times horrified by the thought that he almost got back through the armour. I post on threads where women are desperate to get out, end things, have a better life, and I tell them it's possible, that if I can do it anyone can. And then there I was letting him suck me back in. Testament to how dangerous these men are. Like alice said..kryptonite.

bizkit how horrible for your DS and for you. Good that he's accepted it's over, but your dilemma now is where to go from here. Is moving away on your own really not an option because it really does sounf like your best bet imho.

greenberet I totally understand the 'being held hostage' feeling. For the last year of our marriage it felt that way. Each time I tried to escape he'd go on the charm offensive, mind games, had me convinced I couldn't leave. When I finally had that epiphany of 'I must get DC out of this', then his hold over me somehow started to disintigrate and within a fortnight or so we were gone. He's recently trief to reconcile and I'm ashamed to say I began to fall for it before his charade slipped. DC and I are about 9 months out of that awful toxic marriage and we're staying out.

I don't know much about mediation etc but one thing that jumps out of me from your post is how your H says you can stay in the family home on his terms. He's still intent on controlling you and the situation. Until you break out of that cycle, nothing will change. Part of the 'getting out' has to be your mindset. It needs to be at a point where you have the courage of your convictions. Once you get there, everything becomes easier because at that point, nothing and no one can change your mind.

Sending you strength

I know finances and housing can be so difficult, but you have to be able to live on your own terms. Do not agree to his "terms" or he will tie you to him just as securely as if you were still living together.

When KD tried to get me back this summer, I noticed he was quick to try to ingrain himself into things such as saying he'd come over and mow the garden, do any repairs, help out... and so on. It was his way of tying me to him - I do all this for you! And to him, it means he has a tangible tie to the residence, therefore he has a "right" to have an opinion or say in what goes on there. And that is why I said NO.