Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

He's dating you, Curt... he just hasn't ASKED. Why would he text when he gets in?? He's checking all his plans with you like you're together.

alice I keep saying he doesn't need to text etc but he does it anyway. I've backed off as much as possible myself, don't respond to his goodnight texts and such (which feels really mean..gaaahh!!) and he says it doesn't matter. I don't have to show any level of emotion or commitment, I just have to let him do it so he can show me he's serious.

Aarrggghhh..I feel like I have a head full of cotton wool. It is beginning to feel like he thinks it's just a matter of time and patience on his part before I just slip quietly back into our marriage.

I don't understand why the "it doesn't matter, I'll still do it" flies. He's literally dragging you back into a relationship. If you don't want to be, you need to flat out tell him - no texting, no calling to "chat", no videos and takeaway.

And that pressure is unlikely to subside, Curt. Since you're fine with him calling ever night, he'll push it up to the next stage.

Why does he have to show you he's serious, anyway? Doesn't that give you the unenviable task of monitoring his behaviour? That doesn't sound like an adult relationship to me. It sounds like parenting. Actually, that revelation in my own relationship was my Nigella moment. I would always be responsible if he behaved in a way I didn't like.

every night. And sorry, you did say it was not every night, so I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm cross with him because it's clear this isn't something you want, but something you feel you have to accept. Hope it doesn't come across as curt with you.

alice charlotte I've been very clear with him that I'm not sure I'll ever want to reconcile (I do reiterate that to him quite often), and that he won't be getting anything from me (emotionally or physically!) whilst he 'tries'. So far that hasn't put him off trying. Here's the pisser. I know I still love him, and there is a part of me that is curious to see where he's going with this. BUT. I don't trust him. I haven't forgiven him and I'm not sure I ever will.

I keep thinking back to when times were good (and of course they were at the beginning), but now I look deeper and I see there were so many cracks even then, he was often inconsistent, red flags so subtle I didn't even notice them, a few major incompatibility issues that just got worse over time.

It all comes down to the fact that a reconcilliation would be a monumental task of epic proportions, and I'm not sure the me without the cotton wool filled spaghetti head, has the time or patience to be bothered with it.

That's a messy post, sorry, just wanted to get a few things out into the ether.

Curt It does seem a bit sinister, in that if you step out of line, he "punishes" you... little steps right now (like saying "then I am not ringing later")... but eventually it will be upping the ante again. Rather like he's "conditioning" you again to respond the way he wants you to. I worry he's getting more invested in this fantasy that you are back together again, and he is going to get ugly.

Please be careful.

x-post Curt. Just want you to be safe and happy (and obviously your dcs as well!).

Thanks alice ..happy and safe is my aim. And one of my main worries is that he's automatically assumed his hard work will pay off. All the calling and texting and checking in with me is something he knows I craved when we were together. When he worked away he barely contacted me, always had a works piss up, made me feel guilty for mentioning his lack of communication as he was 'out there earning money' while I was at home with the babies (and freelancing if I had chance, to top up the pot). Now he's texting/calling etc and all it's really served to do is make it starkly evident that he could always have done it, he just chose not to as a way to keep me in my place and show me where I was in his list of priorities (and to make me work a bit harder for his attention.)

Feel down today. Need to get my smiley on for the party. Perhaps another coffee is required.

Curt unfortunately, if you are serious about not getting back together with him, you probably going to need to put your foot down and tell him stop or you'll have him on harassment. I know you don't want to ramp up hostilities, but I suspect he knows this as well and is taking advantage of it to slowly drag you back into a relationship.

Have you watched Jurassic Park before?? Remember when they talked about the raptor testing the fences? That's what he is doing... testing the fences, looking for a weakness and using it.

alice good analogy..and I don't doubt you're right. The thing is, part of me wants to give him the chance to show me things will be different, even though he's had countless chances before, the difference then was we were under the same roof and he slipped easly back into fw mode, as I was right there to have a go at.

This time I don't have to engage with him, I can tell him 'no', I can decide to not answer my phone etc. This time, he's dealing with a Curt who upped and left him, who's happily gone NC when he was being a dick. I probably (foolishly) feel like I'm in a much stronger position than I was before.

And if course a huge part of me says he's not capable of sustaining this good behaviour..as you pointed out, he already threatened to not call during the skype conversation. But at one time that would have had me apologising to appease him, now I just told him he could please himself as it made no difference to me either way. And shockingly for him, he apologised for being a knob!

So I suppose the bottom line is this: Maybe I don't want to absolutely rule out a reconcilliation at some point (although I firmly stand by my statement of us never living together again), but I can't find where the comfortable boundary is wrt him feeling this is a done deal.

Feeling a bit railroaded by my 'what ifs..' and by his quite frankly flawless performance so far.

Hello all, just checking in briefly because what you were saying Curt resonated with how my FW behaved. He drew me back in for a long time and I felt powerless.

But the point is that your KD's performance isn't flawless. It was only very recently that he was behaving awfully, demanding you didn't go on holiday etc, and everything before that. Now you are asking him not to contact you so much, he's ignoring you. He is not respecting your wishes at all. He is doing the bare minimum to not rile you up too much but the fact of the matter is - if you state your wishes and he respects them on an ongoing basis (ie not just for a week or two), then that is a solid basis for considering reconciliation further down the road.

I spent a lot of time with my counsellor discussing my inability to let go of my fantasy of us as a perfect family - it could be so good, I kept thinking, if only he'd just not be a FW, and he says he's changed, I soooooo want to believe him and have that fantasy... But ultimately I knew he was railroading me. I asked for space, he insisted we needed to see each other in order to make things better. I told him I didn't want to come back to the house, he insisted that I needed to spend Saturday nights there with all the kids overnight. And I did it all, while knowing it wasn't right but feeling powerless to resist his persuasion/manipulation and also my own feelings of love for him and desperation to believe he had changed.

So just wanted to say - I totally know where you are right now with the spaghetti head. It's horrible, and you are vulnerable because of it, because part of you wants the contact. I remember feeling my heart both leaping and sinking at the same time every time he texted.
Why not ask him to stop texting/calling you except to do with the kids and see if he respects what you are saying and feeling? (I know this is hard because you do yearn for the contact, but you are doing so well with your progress, your priority is sorting your spaghetti head, not making things fair/nice for him. It's totally ok to be selfish and a little bit mean sometimes, it doesn't make you a bad person at all.)

Have you got the Lundy Bancroft book? He makes an analogy about them moving an inch and us behaving like they've moved a mile because it's so different to what things were like before. Stay strong. You are doing great.

Thanks ponygirl, the moving an inch and us behaving like they've moved a mile is spot on. He dealt with our recent day out with DC like a normal, reasonable person would and I described it as 'exceptionally well behaved' . I know I need to keep my wits about me, and I think I'll start by listing all the things that make me feel pressured/railroaded..and then if he does them I'll tell him not to do them again and why. If he's serious about all this, he'll respect my wishes, right? I've let this run away with me a bit, I admit, and I need to reset those boundaries I was so proud of just a few weeks back.

If he's serious about all this, he'll respect my wishes, right?

Abso-bloody-lutely Curt. And even if he does respect them, he needs to keep on respecting them, and do other things besides. He has a lot of work to do. And yes yes to them behaving like a 'normal' person and us being over the moon and thinking it amazing. It's not. It's what should be happening as a matter of course, with no thought/effort needed from him.

But don't feel bad about getting a bit railroaded - it happens, it'll keep happening, because you are still finding your way through all this, it's not a linear path. I found it was two steps forward and one step back for a long long time. That's what this thread is so so valuable for, being able to sound things out in a place where there is no judgement, just support. It was my lifeline!

ponygirl this thread has been my lifeline, too. Each failure and each triumph I've shared on here as a means to process it, as there's just no one in my life who can relate the way you ladies can. I know I can depend on people to listen and share and remind me and give me the occasional gentle nudge.

I've always figured things out better if I see them written down in black and white, and then to have someone say 'that's how I felt' or 'my fw does that..' Makes me feel a ton better

When you read the Lundy Bancroft book, it will really strike you just how similiar they all are, how they all seem to have some kind of 'script'. It's something that never failed to amaze me, how predictable they were! If you haven't read it yet, I can thoroughly recommend it - I read and reread it to help untangle things when I got spaghetti-headed.

KD is all about lies and secrecy again. Why am I not surprised?

Oh, lest I seem to be overly worried about it, I'm really not. Just find it rather amusing... even odd... that he feels he still has to lie and hide things that quite frankly I don't care about.

That is the extent it's getting any head time though. Enjoying the NC while it lasts.

The party was as manic as I expected, and my DC not surprisingly had more fun than they would've had than if we'd 'entertained' their 'grandparents'. I'm not against them seeing DC but I'll be damned if I'm changing plans for people who've made no effort for the last 18 months.

alice you don't sound overly concerned..just more of a , why the need for secrecy and lies when it really doesn't matter any more!

So I made a list of things that I feel uncomfortable or railroaded with wrt KD's bid for reconciliation and

...and I'll be respectfully asking him not to do them the next time they occur. We'll see how he copes with that. Apparently the coffee with his parents yesterday was 'horrific' and he wished I'd been there for a bit of back up. Your parents, your problem, not mine ..bit uncharitable but I definitely had a far more fun day than him, sticky hands, sugar high, blue poo (from the slush puppies!) and all

(Blue poo would be in reference to DC, not me obv!!)

blue poo gotta love it!

Dcs are happily playing a video game together, and I am browsing Pinterest at some DIY stuff that I am contemplating doing in my house.

Curt well done on the list, although rather than asking him, I'd just TELL him that is not to be done. Asking implies he has a choice in the matter. I've learned with KD that leaving a door open in that way is asking for it to be walked though.

I could do with a few DIY ideas myself alice, ideally (money allowing) I'd love to finish the kitchen before Christmas (which will no doubt throw up another huge stressy question mark!). KD is coming over at half one to spend the afternoon with DC so wish me luck with getting him to engage with them rather than me!

And you're right..ASK is the wrong approach..I'll just TELL him when he's over stepping my invisible line. Something else I'll probably need luck with.

How about you get out a book and just breezily say "well, here are the dcs - I'll be in the other room reading, so you can enjoy your time with them."

Or if your garden needs work, you can be outside working on the garden. Nearby if there's a problem, but he can't really "chat" with you, as he'd be inside with the dcs.

Or cleaning... toilets, kitchen.. whatever you can come up with.

It's such a nightmare, isn't it? I struggled with it when KD was coming to the house. Meeting in a public place is easier in that regard, but then does mean I actually have to interact with him as well. There just is no perfect solution (well, there is, but that would require him to grow up and act like an adult, and I don't see that happening soon).

I might just get on with some baking for the week..normally I'd do it on a monday and get DC involved but it'll make a change to have a less messy experience! He's bringing them a DVD so I figure I'll point him in the direction of the snacks drawer and let him get on with it. I'm keen to bake some breakfast banana and pecan muffins I saw a recipe for..which I may just scoff warm with a coffee and browse ebay while he entertains DC ...let's see if it actually pans out like that..

Best of luck!