Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships 30

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

So he skyped with DC at half six and spent most of the time trying to talk to me whilst 3 tired and overly excited toddlers attempted to show him the drawings they'd done today. After 15 minutes, I have to admit I lost patience with him and said would he please just engage with the kids a bit as this was supposed to be their daddy time and he'd be able to talk to me later when he phoned after DC bedtime. He said 'if that's the mood you're in, forget me calling you.' and ended the skype.

Luckily my DC weren't too fussed as they didn't really 'get it' (possibly too young or simply because it was their first skype experience), but I as left thinking aaah..there you are.

Gaaah..post too soon!!! Anyway, he text me straight after with an apology and that he'd had a stressful first day and hos hotel is awful and he hadn't eaten etc, and that he'll call me before bed if it's ok with me. Meh. I don't know how I feel and it's driving me spare. Why don't I know how I feel??

Just marking my place as i did on previous ea threads atm things are in the calm phase. Fw agreed to have mediation over ds (after he initially said no and that he guesses 'this is it' and hes going to turn ds against me etc etc). Hes using triangulation still which he knows hurts. Casually mentions other women, how his ex texts him asking for sex... Just waiting for him to tension-build and explode with verbal vomit.
Hope everyone heres ok, stay strong x

It just gets better and better, have found out tonight that he bought a bike for himself for £200, at the time he was moaning about not earning enough cos he was in a temp job and knew I was also finding money tight! I thought he had been given it by someone at the club he takes our DS too.Im sooooo angry and can't believe he still does these things, he is taking the piss out of me pure and simple, he knows I will make sure the bills are paid, grrrrrr
God knows what else he has bought, no wonder he has had his bank statements stopped being sent here and he calls me selfish, I can't take this much longer, now his dad is ill so that will be the next reason not to bother him or keep on about separating

Can I mark a safe place please?

I'm in very early days and although reading lots I'm a bit nervous of posting but would really like to bookmark all the links.

Strength to you all.

CurtWild You are asking "Why don't I know how I feel?" Do you mind if I take a stab at that? It's something I've wrestled with lately, as you know.

• You WANT to believe that your judgement was not so wildly misplaced and that he really is (deep down - waaaay deep down ) the decent man you thought he was.
• You remember how he was capable of acting sweet and kind and think "surely that's the REAL him, nobody can pretend to be that lovely..."
• Then you remember the shitty behaviour, the lies, the manipulation and you think "no way am I going to leave myself open for that again..."
• Then you think "but what if he's REALLY changed?"
• Then it's "but he's said he's changed before.... it didn't last that long and the nasty side came out again... "
• You see the way he dismisses the dcs and their needs and you stop briefly, thinking "okay, that's fairly telling... he's focusing on me, but ignoring them..."
• You try to explain it away, buying into his excuses - he's tired, he's busy at work, blah blah
• You feel confused, because you still will ALWAYS ALWAYS have this teeny tiny little spark of hope inside you that he will turn himself around, find his inner adult, be the decent person you thought he was.... because you're generally a fairly positive person and try to believe the best in people, especially someone you love/loved.

But you're struggling with it because even though he is "acting" (and I stress that word for a reason) kind and considerate, you're starting to see the cracks again.

-the dismissive nature when dealing with the dcs (he's not really skyping to talk to the dcs, is he? he showed that pretty clearly)
-the focusing on YOU and pushing for a relationship
-the refusal to accept YOUR decision on anything and continuing to push his own agenda by manipulation (wanting you to wear the wedding ring again, ringing you every evening)
-the careful method of keeping you tied to him (he knows you are with the dcs all day, and he is using the method of skyping dcs and ringing you every evening as a way of making sure that you have no social life to speak of)
-keeping you isolated (again, you have to be home for him to skype or ring you every evening)
-still using manipulation and anger to get his own way (the moment you called him on his behaviour when skyping, he blew up and decided he wasn't going to ring you later)

He's working on you again, quite aggressively IMO. Think about it. I'll bet this is the most confused you've felt in ages - and I'd be willing to bet you didn't feel this way when you went No Contact, did you? Welcome to spaghetti head. I've been there this last month. I recognise the confusion.

Go back and read some of your old posts from when you first separated... or even months ago when he first moved into that place nearby and you were so stressed over it. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the behaviours he was showing then, he is showing now, but you're confused over his behaviour and not seeing it. The more you see him, the more "normal" his aggressive and pushy behaviour will seem. That is the nature of spaghetti head.

Bizkit don't let it be the reason. Yes, his dad is ill. Next month there will be something else. At some point, you're going to have to just put on the helmet and say "that's it. Deal with it yourself. I'm gone."

Have you thought about letting the bills that directly affect him slide? Don't pay them. Pay only the ones that affect you and your DS and let HIM worry about the rest. Why should you be skint and struggling when he is deliberately spending money on nonessentials and not helping financially? Are there any debts/bills that are mainly just for him?

honey that must be so frustrating for you. It's hard to just dismiss those kind of comments, but I think the best thing is to not show him any reaction. Maybe act like you've not even heard them? Much like a playground bully, if he sees no upset reaction, he may back off, even temporarily.

curly welcome. Just a bit of advice, if he can access your internet device (phone, ipad, laptop, computer) that you're going on MN on, make sure you log out of MN every time, put it so it doesn't remember your password. Also make sure you wipe your internet and browsing history completely. The other option (recommended by many) is to use "incognito" mode on your browser so it doesn't retain where you've been once you've closed the browser window. That will make this a safer place for you.

That tiny little spark of hope, that really is the killer, isn't it?

I'm struggling most with the loneliness. I don't know how to learn to be ok being on my own. I intensely just want to be in a secure relationship. I hate not having a partner. I know I'm not even in the right headspace for that yet; not even so much exdp, but I feel so desperate and vulnerable. No way to enter into anything. But I don't know how to cope with being alone after so long. The thought of dating itself is terrible even. I certainly couldn't handle rejection of any kind right now.

I do have a good support group, lots of friends/family around me. I'm almost never actually alone. But the loneliness is a different kind.

I'm so much happier than I was with exdp, but the loneliness gets me. My head fuzzes over and I only think of the nice things about having a partner, the nice times with him, having someone to sleep next to, and not the fear and constant emotional battery. I wonder about the ridiculous proposal and that teeny tiny spark wonders if some rosy little happy life could exist if I'd responded a different way.

Someone on another thread said that emotional abuse actually does the same things drugs do to our brains: when the abuser is nice, it triggers the endorphins and same patterns that drugs do for an addict, so the process of leaving involves physical withdrawals as well. They put it a bit better than that, but it really clicked with me. It's what it feels like, and these past few days have been pretty extreme on the withdrawal effects.

I just can't stand the thought of being alone. I'm strong in every other way, why is this so hard for me? The idea of not finding someone terrifies me, I don't want to wait years to get married, I don't want to not have children in the next few years. But even if I found someone tomorrow, it will be years. I don't know how to be ok with all this.

alice that post was spot on. This is an insight into how (I think) my mind is working right now.
KD- I'll skype DC every evening
Me - That'll be great for DC (or does he want to control where we'll be at a certain time...)

KD - I'll call you before bed each night.
Me - I'll be able to share the trials of the day with my DC's dad and he's showing he's not out on the piss (or is he just checking up on me to make sure I'm alone...)

KD - I'm wearing my wedding ring to ward off unwanted attention while I'm away, will you put yours back on?
Me - He's trying to show his commitment to me (but to ask if I'll wear mine again shows he wants commitment from me when he told me he expected nothing.

All of it feels like 'I've been here before.' Yes, I did buy into his work stress busy etc, because it sounded feasible..but it also means I'm back to giving him the benefit of the doubt, something I got very good at whilst we were together, for my own sanity tbh. I found myself having to make excuses for behaviour xyz because otherwise I ended up anxious, insecure in myself etc. Gaaaaah.

We had a ten minute call last night, anyway, another apology for his behaviour during the skyping and the promise it won't happen again. We shall see.

Oh, and no, I didn't have any fuzzy, spaghetti headedness when we were NC, I was thinking clearer than I had in a very long time.

Welcome curly, I'm not fantastic at advice but I can do support

sadie, I can't even put this down to loneliness, I think I function far better on my own, far more efficient, clearer headed, better mum to DC. I actually don't mind being on my own at all. And I was doing so well, had a little anger in reserve for when KD was being a knob etc, and now he's being the lovely version of himself that I remember from our early days together, it's hard to remember that he can be an absolute bastard. Meh.

Oh yeah that damn teeny spark of hope is always there. I can feel it and i hate it cos i know it holds me back... Always a tiny bit of 'what if it really IS me?.... What if he moves on with someone new and treats her like a princess and isnt abusive to her?... 'It would mean i really am the problem. Not that id wish it on anyone else but you get the picture (?). What gives me hope is the nice phase before tension building... Makes you think if i just try extra hard, we can somehow keep it that way (always fails obvs).

It is hard to let the comments go over my head. Last tantrum he had he said how his kids would be better off with him, better protected. Theres no level low enough that he wont stoop to to hurt me. Still in the calm phase atm but there was nothing i could say that he didnt put down. Told him im on hol next month and all he can say was 'oh you mean the place with littered beaches and crappy amusement arcades?' Bloke's teeming with negativity x

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that's how you were feeling, Curt. Just a little rant and a wobble about my emotions right now.

sadie, tbh I wish I could put this down to loneliness, it would explain why I find myself even contemplating his desire to reconcile!

Skype went better, as promised he engaged better with DC and left his chat with me til later.

I still don't know how I feel. Aside from confused.

CurtWild If you told him you wanted him to just talk to the dcs during the week, what would his reaction be? If, for example, you were OUT when he skyped to the dcs (and had someone else be there, so they could simply tell him "Sorry, she's out tonight")... what would his reaction be?

You ARE still a free agent, but he's acting like he's back in a relationship with you. I think if you're not in a relationship, him ringing you every evening is not a good idea. It's making him think you are.

May I re-join? Yesterday, my H saw a solicitor for legal advice. He told me that if we separate he is goinig to make things as difficult as possible for me, financially and otherwise.

Some time back he asked me to go for counselling, and then we would go for joint counselling. I have asked him to make the appointment for joint counselling. Should I also get my own counselling?

He says that I am a liar and have never told the truth about my affair that happened over 20 years ago. He wants me to go for counselling to work out why I lie. Is that right?

I think he should have put the past behind us and valued what we have (three children after the affair, two good jobs and a nice home).

It is all so confused in my mind and I don't know if I should go for counselling or see a lawyer myself.

alice sadly I don't have anyone around me who could do the skype in place of me other than my parents (who cannot stand him and want nothing to do with him), but I think his response if that did happen wouldn't be a positive one! Equally if I said I wouldn't be able to chat one night, I know he'd want to know why. I may test that one tonight.

Wrt him already viewing us as back in a relationship, the text I recieved earlier would seem to point to that. Apparently his eatranged parents are visiting this weekend and when they've caught up over coffee he's bringing them to my house to see DC. Not 'will you be in?' not 'is that ok?' not 'how do you feel about...' No. Just an assumption that DC and I will be available and it's all hunky dory for them to just waltz back in after 18 months, and I'll fall into line with their plans. Absolutely livid, actually. DC have a birthday party to go to on saturday and I'll be damned if I'm cancelling it. I replied saying it's not convenient and DC have a party to attend and he replied with 'we'll talk later'.

Curt, you have to firm up. He does not get to say we are coming. It's your home.

I also don't see at all why you talk to him every evening. He's not your spouse. Yes, he is the children's father, but he is not your spouse, and you four are not his family! He makes such assumptions!

So his parents have never seen your twins?

"we'll talk later" Yep. He thinks you're back in a relationship with him and the control is already beginning. Curt I'm sorry to say this, but he hasn't changed. I think you need to pull back fast before he gets worse. This is not going to be pretty.

Wanted Welcome. Do YOU want to do joint counselling? It's generally not recommended in an abusive situation. I would suggest perhaps you go to counselling on your own FIRST to sort out your feelings, before you even consider any joint. It sounds like he is dragging back 20 years to find something to place all the blame on you. That's ridiculous IMO.

For that matter, cut the Skype down to 2 nights a week TOPS. Seriously, when has he EVER communicated that much with your kids?? The only time you've mentioned him coming over "to see the kids" regularly was when he first moved in nearby and you said at the time that it was just so he could see you. This is the same thing! He's keeping tabs on you through the kids. You need to put those boundaries back up. NC except he can skype the kids 2 times a week at set time. Other than that, contact visit prearranged. He has no reason to "chat" to you. He is NOT your partner. And if he cannot respect that, (which he obviously can't) then he obviously hasn't changed one jot.

I'll bet the parental visit was to put more pressure on you as well.

Alice, thank you for your reply and your thoughts. I also think it is ridiculous to blame everything on something that happened over twenty years ago, before we had kids. After the affair, I gave up my job, moved countries to join him, and had three DCs and brought them up.

The thing is, I didn't confess to the affair properly when it happened. H always suspected that there was something more to it than I had admitted. He says that I drip-fed him, that I tricked him, did things under false pretenses. He blames the fact that he suspected that I hadn't told the truth for all his bad behaviour over the past 20 years.

I feel like I made huge efforts after my affair to make a go of the relationship. I think he should have been able to see what a great job I was doing with the DCs and family, and forgive and forget. He says he couldn't forget it. I sort-of tolerated his behaviour, and we got into what I now recognise as cycle of abuse.

What I cannot work out is whether it is my fault and that I am responsible for what is almost a personality change; or whether he was always poetntially very controlling and my affair (and my behaviour afterwards) just triggered something in him.

Perhaps I do need my own counselling.

hansie the 'chat every night' was his idea, to show me that this time when he works away, he's still commited to us rather than out on the lash every night. Apparently it's all part of the 'I'll show you I'm different' part of his bid for reconcilliation. Otherwise known as 'making sure curt's alone at bedtime' methinks.

KD's parents have seen the twins once when they were newborn. DD1 won't remember them and the twins certainly won't. He'll be skyping around half six tonight and he won't be happy when I refuse to budge over the birthday party. If he starts stropping and cuts the skype short, then it'll be evident that no, he hasn't changed. Guess we'll see.

Curt I'll bet if you told him NC during the week, he'd go nuclear. I really do think he's using his nightly contact as a way to control you and keep tabs on you. And you notice the spaghetti head confusion has been pretty constant while he's been talking to you more. (I noticed that when KD was more "in contact" with me)