DH in occasional contact with OW - how to cope

[holdtight]

Hi MN. I have posted previously about my DH's affair/disclosure and what I have perceived to be marital progress to a better place. Since we decided to try again, I have seen emails to but mainly from ow to dh saying how much she misses him. Most of the time he responds to say he is sorry but he is trying with his marriage. I've also found out they have been to two of the same functions outside of work together and spoke once on the phone. I confronted him with the emails and he told me he still thinks about ow.

I've checked emails again this weekend for first time in a couple of months and there is one from her asking how he is and saying she misses him he has AGAIN replied saying that things are okay and he is getting on. She replies again saying she can meet up anytime and he has not replied (a month ago) as far as I can see.

Everything else is going good and much better than before. Is it unrealistic of me to think ow would just disappear? And that dh would be able to let go 100% after a one year affair?

Holdtight - asking him if he wants to stay or be with her is not really an ultimatum - kicking him out and refusing to see him until he either stops mourning the OW or actually proves by his actions how much he is deeply in love with you, now that, that is an ultimatum.

Don't hold on to a man just because you don't want her to have him. You have not really shown him any consequences and you've had to force him to do things he should be doing off his own back

He really is looking like he is the booby prize

It is not YOU that has broken the marriage or would have broken the family up if you leave. It is HIM doing that. You have the right to walk away from something that is not what you want when some one behaves as he has and it would not be your fault. It would never be right to accept disgraceful behaviour just to keep a broken relationship[ together for appearances sake. Or children's sake. You get ONE life. Do not waste it on some who does not deserve your time, love and respect.

I figured you were worried that if you threw him out he'd head to OW. But the fact is, it's the only way you'll know if you have a marriage worth holding on to, or if it's a lost cause.

Just to add, not being able to block work emails is absolute nonsense. ALL mail providers have a junk mail facility.

Stay strong. You know the truth, you just don't want to believe it.

hold, I'm thrilled you seem to be starting to get it. Do you see how weak it is to claim to be working on his marriage and putting you first, but then also contacting her and pining for her and seeing her at parties and lying to you about it? Do you see how sniveling and selfish and 'anything for an easy life' and small that makes him?

-" I would frequently pick him up on this behaviour before but now I feel too insecure."--
This comment worries me greatly. Can you see that you are actually desiring the OPPOSITE of how a marriage survives an affair. It is VERY VERY difficult for any marriage to get over a romantic affair. In my experience, the majority don't (as opposed to a purely sexual affair or a one night stand or an emotional affair, for example). And it is for exactly these reasons. But when they do, it is when the cheater takes MORE responsibility and criticism of their character as a result of their actions NEVER when the cheated upon changes their behavior or feels judged.

The very fact that you think he would go to the OW speaks volumes about your fears and behavior, and frankly, their relationship. You see like the one consumed with fear of being left, whereas it is HE that should feel that way. An I am certain he doesn't. Whatever lip service he pays to this, we can tell here on an anonymous message board that you have absolutely no intention of leaving this man, so he who knows you well must feel that completely.

It also concerns me that you are starting to 'get it' only once I mention detaching as a strategy to 'keep him'. It is almost as if you can only bear thinking about separating as a technique to keep your man, which is sad. I get the impression there is something about you that would find the idea of being alone shaming in some way, either in regards to failure, loneliness, imperfection or weakness. I would look at this and how it is shaping your decisions.

Do you really want to be with a man who admits to you that he is mourning the OW, but who you believe would not mourn you? WHY? Is it, as I suspect, because you know he would never mourn you because you are safe, reliable, ever there. He never fears losing you. It is the OW, he has lost and therefore has real feeling for. There is a good book called The Passion Paradox (sometimes called The Passion Trap) which explains why we feel more in love with people who are rejecting us. It is really worth getting and perfectly outlines power issues in relationships. At the moment your DH has all the power and no fear of loss. This situation is very very bad and it will never recover unless YOU act.

How do actually carry on and have dinner and talk about the weather when you know the man is mourning his bit on the side......I just don't get it.

His ego must be swelling, two women clinging on to him like he's the last man on earth.

I think that people are valued more by others when they place a high value on themselves.

OP, The way you have chosen to live your life is utterly soul destroying.

You see schmoo, that is what I thought, its just another lie isn't it? X

I usually find folk that are up their own arses completely disinteresting personally.

Jan if your post is in response to mine, I think that you misunderstand me. Knowing your own worth is not the same as being up your own arse. Surely you must see that the OP should value herself more.

It wasn't Bruins, I totally get what you are saying and I totally agree!

Was just a general throwaway remark, can see it wasn't really appropriate now.

Holdtight, can you deconstruct what 'deeply in love' means to you?

holdtight your H doesn't fear losing you or family life, good old holdtight is holding tight, and as far as he's concerned you'll carry on doing so. Until you shake his very foundations, he'll never fear losing you. You say you think if he left, he wouldn't mourn you, he'd go straight to OW. Doesn't that in itself speak volumes as to how much you believe his commitment to you?

(Blood, I just broke my Amazon boycott to buy that book, thank you. Reviews are amazing.)

Glad to hear it, avril. It's an absolute eye opener and I would strongly recommend it to anyone who feels there is an imbalance in their relationship, caused by infidelity or anything else.

Also, sometimes people stay because they feel so guilty and they can't face the reality of leaving. If it's that, rather than love for you and a belief in your future, hold, then you deserve to know and you need to face it.

I know you aren't going to chuck him out. But at the very least I think you both need to go into counseling and you need to have full access to all communication all the time. You may even want to speak to OW, possibly with him present.

Thank you Blood, for all your really insightful posts .

I have no desire to speak to OW or involve her any in our recovery and can't see how this would help.

Yes, Loletta, my remark about him going straight to ow is most likely born out of my feelings of insecurity.

Please know that what I am saying on the thread is a far cry from what I am saying to dh. This is where I have come for help so i'm trying to be as open and honest with my feelings as possible. At home I have laid down the law and taken no prisoners - it is on the inside I feel shaky. Without wanting to go around in circles, I have asked all the questions you are asking of dh - if he is staying out of guilt/convenience/for the dc/if he wants ow - he has assured me no - he wants us. He has never said he loves ow to me - then or now, just that he is grieving and he regretted saying that as soon as it came out of his mouth but surely it's better I know what page he's on? He's making steps to show me his commitment in (recent) actions and words, has sent that email and that's where I am.

I really am out with any more contact. I can't go through it again. I hope that comes across both here and to dh as it is honestly how I feel.

I believe you, hold.

Two points. What he says to you has as little bearing on his real feelings as the difference between what you are saying to us here and to him. I am not saying this to upset you. Of course he loved her, hold. I know that hurts but one does not have a year long romantic affair and not feel that at some point, nor does one grieve the loss of someone one did not, at some stage, feel love for. Now he may be able to see that as a false love now, or as something he thought he felt to cover the egotism, but the fact remains, of course he loved her, or thought he did. I have no idea why you would think to believe what he says about the affair now, considering his behavior and motivations are to stay, for whatever reason.

The fact that he has answered like that to your questions is obvious simply by the fact that you are still together. It doesn't mean it's the whole truth or even the truth. The only thing once can trust after infidelity is actions. Take away everything he has said to you and judge him and your situation purely by actions. If there is one piece of advice I could give it would be that.

The second thing is to think about why you are so keen to keep OW out of it. She holds a lot of the answers you might want. Is there an element that you just don't want to know? Isn't that an extension of the denial we talked about above? Don't you think you are preserving the bubble of their affair by trying to hard to preserve the bubble of your marriage? Shouldn't both be exploded into a new reality? Why really won't you get in touch with her? Because you are afraid of what she would say? Or because you fear he might be angry? Can you see how disempowered you are that you have to receive all information about their relationship either filtered (very filtered) through him, or through covert, teary espionage?

No counselling? What's the rules with his emails and phone?

We have already done counselling (but he lied about contact with ow when asked outright by the counsellor if he had ceased all contact with the affair partner).

I can look at his phone and computer any time. He is not agitated by this prospect. He had hid work emails but I can access those too now.

There would have been problems that were present in the relationship that led to the husband having the affair. The affair is how he escaped the relationship. Have you talked to him with regard to why he had the affair and why he looked outside the marriage. The OW is not important to you so don't make her anything more than she is.

I am not saying you should get in touch with the OW. But I am interested in why you don't want to. Like much of your response, it has been a tight, certain denial of it being 'worth it'. A total refusal to look at what it both true and painful. Understandable as a form of self-protection but utterly time-wasting. The reality is that you don't want to do things that might make you question your marriage or him and your 'recovery'. When in fact, these sorts of things are essential FOR recovery. Unless what you want to recover is an awkward, deceitful marriage in which he is still unfaithful.

What do you feel can be gained by getting in touch with OW though Blood