DH in occasional contact with OW - how to cope

[holdtight]

Hi MN. I have posted previously about my DH's affair/disclosure and what I have perceived to be marital progress to a better place. Since we decided to try again, I have seen emails to but mainly from ow to dh saying how much she misses him. Most of the time he responds to say he is sorry but he is trying with his marriage. I've also found out they have been to two of the same functions outside of work together and spoke once on the phone. I confronted him with the emails and he told me he still thinks about ow.

I've checked emails again this weekend for first time in a couple of months and there is one from her asking how he is and saying she misses him he has AGAIN replied saying that things are okay and he is getting on. She replies again saying she can meet up anytime and he has not replied (a month ago) as far as I can see.

Everything else is going good and much better than before. Is it unrealistic of me to think ow would just disappear? And that dh would be able to let go 100% after a one year affair?

Granny, that is a fantastic saying which I will pinch.
Op, only time is going to tell on this one. Am I confused or did you say it is the second time he has cheated?

It is the first time he's cheated, second time I've caught communication between him and ow during our recovery.

holdtight, it wasn't a stupid idea to put both names in the email. Presenting a united front is important. BUT I think your gut feeling and what granny says is right. I think this affair has been going on emotionally, if not sexually, all this time in one way or another. And that he has been contacting her or approaching her in a romantic way during that time. I would be wary of another email or text being sent apologizing for the joint email from you and a resumption of lovesick occasional pining in the future.

I really agree with granny about the character flaws of your husband. And to be honest, I find it really troubling that you seem so intent on staying and not addressing that. It is about more that this woman. I am deeply sympathetic because I myself have been cheated on, and also had an affair, which was a very romantic falling in love situation, and I found it bitterly difficult to let go of. BUT I knew absolutely that to keep in touch with OM and try and make things work with my partner was not just foolhardy and self-defeating but also CRUEL. Most importantly CRUEL. It was cruel to DH, obviously, but also cruel to OM, to not let him fully get on with his life and keep offering hope, and cruel to any partner he might have now or in the future. It's a hugely hugely immature and unkind and short-term attitude and the far thou had to insist or suggest the email speaks volumes about how WEAK he is. Doesn't any of this bother you? Doesn't it manifest itself in other areas? How can you possibly believe he's moving to being a different person with different behaviors? I ask again, for the hundredth time, with much affection, what is your bottom line now?

Oh dear. So after he was caught cheating once, he promised you it was over and then he kept in contact with her.

Then you found out, went ballistic (presumably) and he promised you he wouldn't contact her again.

And once again, you found out he lied, and once again he has promised you it's over.

How bloody awful for you. How will you ever look him in the eyes again?

I have to agree with pp, its a great mystery to me Why you want to be with this...hypocrite.

If you still genuinely want to be with him after all this then I guess you are going to be in for a rather anxious time? Wish I had some sterling words of advice that could help you OP.
You know when you read your e-mails if you right click on the e-mail and go into 'junk mail' you can block the individual sender. Maybe he could try this?

BB, he says he can't block his work email which is how they are communicating.

Can you work out why you want to be with him so much, after all he's done/doing to you?

Can you be sure they are not communicating in any other way? Also, the blocking thing isn't really the issue is it? It's the replying. I wouldn't be surprised if the OW DOESN'T contact him again. Her outrage sounds completely logical for someone who has been strung along and contacted wistfully and romantically along the way. That's not the point is it? Is it? The point is that he isn't over her. And he has put his own selfish needs for contact with her over your completely reasonable requests for no contact and honesty. Then he has lied to you about it and made you feel like a criminal who has to check up on him and feel paranoid and shamed. How on earth do you know he doesn't email her then immediately delete them? It would make sense for him to only keep the emails that prove his commitment to you, as it were. Even though they themselves are breaches of your trust.

This might be a good , useful gesture but why on earth is it coming so late, and at your behest? I just think you are being so so empathetic towards him at every turn. YOur boundaries and bottom lines destroyed every time. Why are you like this? Do you secretly feel on some level unworthy of him? Do you have low self-confidence generally? Have you yourself been unfaithful and so have a compassion and empathy for his pining another? What's going on, love?

OP, your replies are always very short. Of course, you must post how you like and not my place to criticise. But not once have I gotten a sense that you love him but rather just want to hang onto your marriage because it seems so scary to give up on it now. Sunk costs and all that.

What is so good about this man ? I am really struggling to see what could outweigh how very badly he has behaved towards you that you would overlook it.

I agree with AF, it's not that I want you to LTB, at all. I'm really not in that camp. I've seen relationships emerge from affairs. but I get the feeling there's something else going on here. Do you not want to out yourself? Or does your living set up mean you would be particularly vulnerable if you split? Do you have moral/ethical/religious attitudes to divorce? Are you unequal in some way int he marriage? I'm not saying I want you to leave, but I remember from your first thread as well you're not even mentally in the place of THINKING it's possible you could leave. Why not? What's the nature of this relationship or your own sense of self?

I believe there is a piece missing from the puzzle too. I cannot imagine that any man is this good to make one overlook the shit he metes out, tbh. He just sounds crap.

Sorry AF, wasn't my intention to post so little after what everyone has given to the thread. Been snatching moments over the past few days due to a poorly dd.

I hear what everyone is saying about how crap dh sounds but his affair came completely out of the blue and he has always been a devoted dad and husband. I do love him dearly or I would not be putting myself through this hell. I also want what is best for my dc and that is to have their dad around. I don't want to break up my family and cannot bear to imagine going it alone, though as I said - I have not ruled it out and this is his last chance. I generally have low self esteem but there are no other deep rooted issues at work here I don't think.

Bloodonthetracks - sorry, i'm not ignoring you. If he cannot break all ties with ow I am out.

I hear you, hold tight. I understand. And good for you for naming a bottom line. I'd look carefully at this statement though, 'I cannot bear to imagine going it alone'.

You can't even bear to IMAGINE it. Let alone do it. Do you see how pinned you are? You can't even bear to imagine being alone. That's what your posts read like. A sort of denial of even contemplating alternatives. Which places all the power in your DH's hands. Because he will be able to feel that too.

I honestly believe life will not get any better for you in this relationship until you bear to imagine going it alone. not because you should or must, but because only by allowing that independent flight of thought will you behave towards your DH with the autonomy, self-regard and strength that this marriage requires to continue. I remember the same being said on your former thread though. So it may be you are not able to. Why can't you bear going it alone? Is it about your own experiences of loneliness? How much you are in love with your DH? Your lack of other support networks? A guilty, class-based judgement of single mothers?

Now you've written down your bottom line you HAVE to stick to it, hold. If you really feel that and then later down the line you get a sense of or evidence of contact, you HAVE to make good and leave. If you find yourself making excuses, yet again, you may as well not bother asking for fidelity or honesty or advice, because it will be clear you want to be married to this man more than you care about anything else, including your own self-worth and mental health. All the best.

You sound like a lovely woman, holdtight

No worries with the short posts. You owe none of us anything. It almost seems to me though that you are holding back. On here, and in RL. Like if you started examining and talking about how you really feel, you would never stop...like a dam would burst.

I am probably projecting massively. The username possibly sets the scene. If you stop "holding tight" to your emotions, to your anger, to your sense of unfairness then it will all fall apart and all this clinging on would be for nothing.

It's hard Hold but as many of us have already said, to stop their relationship you have to tell him to leave. Only when he has the wakeup call that you mean business, will this affair probably stop. At the moment it feeds upon secrecy. You have already given your bittom line once and he walked over it and you did nothing.

I'm not sure that staying together is always the best for your DC's. He can still "be around" for them if you are not together.
It is better to have 2 happy parents apart than 2 miserable parents together.
Can you honestly say that you will be happy with him any time soon? Don't for one minute think that your DC's won't pick up on what is happening around them-regardless of age kids are very astute and in tune with the atmosphere around them.
That said you seem determined to stay with him regardless, he has already had 3 strikes and he is not out--just how many more is he allowed?

he has always been a devoted dad and husband eh l don't think so- devoted dad perhaps but l would hardly say this man devoted to you given that he had been screwing the OW and lying when he had said he has given her up.
You deserve so much better than this crock of shite

OP, are you worried that if you let him go, he will run to her?

Do you feel like you cannot let OW 'win' your dh, so have to hold onto him, come what may?

Because that is the feeling I am getting, apologies if I am wrong

Sometimes children come in very handy as an excuse for not having to deal with the prospect of change in our own lives because of the terror and pain it unleashes in our heart.

Why do you stay? Oh, its because of the children. Oh, its because looking at the reality of the situation Im in, and feeling the reality of it in all the ways I'm going to have to is just to awful to live, so I'll say I'm doing it for the children instead. I will even get DH to stay by telling him - think about the children.

Holdtight, your children will know something is going on no matter how much you are trying to hide this from them. They will know from your mood, your body language, your tenseness around your DH that something is amiss. And you much must surely know that no matter how we adults try to keep our voice down when discussing things we don't want them to hear - we can never ever ever keep our voices low enough.

Im not someone who believes a marriage can't survive an affair, but if yours was going to there would be signs of it by now, and there isn't, your situation is steadily getting worse instead of better. You talk of being in your recovery (why does that term sound like something off a daft website or book?) but you're not. You're not in your recovery because your marriage is terminally ill.

All this talk of my bottom line and he knows I mean it (this time) - you need your husbands work situation to be such that he can't block emails, and have no contact with her whatsoever. You need the excuse of 'work' because you know in your heart that even without the work situation there would still be contact going on.

If a washing machine breaks down there are times when it has to be taken apart down to the last bolt and left in pieces on the kitchen floor looking very very scary. This is what needs to happen to your marriage, you need to take it down to the last bolt and leave it in pieces on the kitchen floor by telling your husband move out. You need the break from him and what's going on, you need to see if a few months down the line he's been brought to his senses, or you need to see that when he had the chance to go to the OW he did. One thing is for sure though - if he goes to her it's not because you made him by asking him to leave. It will all be down to him wanting to be with her, and yes he might say will probably say , 'oh you made me -but the truth of the matter is that once again he will be showing himself in all is glory and being an absolute horror.

In time you could even go on to living apart, for there to be no marriage, and no OW, but if thats what happens it's because there just wasn't enough left in you/him/your marriage for it to go on.

xxxx

Hold tight I forgot to say - if you are doing this for the children then why can't you turn a blind eye to what's still going on and really just do what you are doing for the children? Stop the looking for info, dont wonder where your husband goes when he goes out - just put up with it all, well and truly for the sake of the children.

But, dont be surprised if in years to come your children say to you Oh Dear God, why did you do that because life wasn't that great, we knew something was going on, we saw you becoming a sad and broken hearted shadow of your former self, we felt your pain mum and we felt the reality of you and dad. Dear God Mum, why did you do it?

Then again they might even say - dont blame it on us mum, you're life has gone by and its not really been a happy life, please don't say you did it for us.

xxx

Still can't get over the fact that he tells you he's 'grieving' the OW. What kind of person says that to their wife after an affair? Sounds a right tit if you ask me.

Holdtight, I wish you could realise that going it alone is not a really awful thought, in fact, it's probably what you should be doing or, in fact, you will be doing, I just don't see you ever getting your happy ever after.

It's actually very naïve to think that your child will be happier if you stay with a man that is capable of these things, your child has probably already picked up on the atmosphere - co parenting but not living together is very doable you know, most marriages do end in divorce so it's pretty normal these days and no big deal.

I also think you have an ideal in your head of what your marriage should be, unfortunately your OH doesn't see that and thinks nothing of shitting all over the marriage and then has the audacity as F Jake says above, to tell you, he is grieving for her, I mean FFS!

Good luck and keep posting, you really should take on board the fact nobody thinks it's a good idea allowing yourself to be treated this way.

Thanks everyone for these very helpful posts. I forgot to acknowledge how helpful the post about dh's fundamental character flaws was - yes, you may be right and for the first time I got a seed of doubt in my head about wether or not I want to be with someone so selfish and utterly self centred. I would frequently pick him up on this behaviour before but now I feel too insecure.

I understand what everyone is saying about 'staying for the kids' - that is not the sole reason - I am very much in love with dh.

Some of the advice has made me really think - my inability to consider alternatives to this path and the reasons for that; the idea that if my marriage even stance an iota of a chance I need to get tough and that could mean separating. I think i'm starting to get it. In my mind atm I am almost certain that the minute dh got his marching orders, he would contact ow rather than mourn me.

Love aint enough OP when you are living in misery and with a man who clearly wants anther woman.

I'm glad though that you are starting to see him for what he is rather than your rose spectacles.

I don't believe it's as clear as all that Jan or I wouldn't be doing this. He's had his ultimatum and chose to stay. Nothing in his emails to ow say he wants her.

In my mind atm I am almost certain that the minute dh got his marching orders, he would contact ow rather than mourn me.

Holdtight - that contradicts what you say here then......

If you really do think that then I don't know what you are hanging about for.