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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Bad fight and I think I crossed the line

314 replies

chickieno1 · 27/06/2014 00:58

Had a very stupid argument with dh this evening. At the dinner table ridiculous about chicken! He got on his high horse about wanting to make his point and I said forget about it and he said he had to make his point. I then got up and took my plate with me and said if he really felt he couldn't leave it then I was going to finish my dinner elsewhere. He then said it was very ignorant of me to leave when he had cooked the dinner etc. I went to the kitchen and he was still going on and then said you can fuck off! Now I don't think we swear at each other and I saw red. I came back into the dining area and said what did you say and he said fuck off again. He was sitting at the table and I pushed him so hard both him and the chair fell over :(. The 9 month old baby was in the high chair next to him and the almost four year old was sitting on the sofa watching something before bath time. Dh got up went upstairs and either slammed a door really hard or hit a wall

We haven't spoken or looked at each other since. I feel really bad and don't know what to say or do :(

OP posts:
BeaverTastic · 27/06/2014 18:27

I'll offer a few things (although with there being 10 pages it now, if I were the OP, I'd be either horribly confused, or still trying to work out wheat from chaff):

  1. If you're arguing about chicken, there's more than likely a more pressing underlying issue you need to talk about. Think what it is, or try to pinpoint it with DH.

  2. Leaving an argument doesn't end it. If you want to stop an argument escalating in front of the children, then appeal to both your senses of adult-ness, and suggest you talk more once the kids are in bed.

  3. If you ask someone to repeat something, then they will - it's what you asked him to do. Men are straightforward like that. Is it reasonable that he swore at you? No, but once said, can't be unsaid and might as well be repeated if that's what you asked for in his book.

  4. Likely you didn't mean to push DH to the floor. Perhaps he was unbalanced and more than likely you caught him by surprise. You totally crossed the line, which you admit.

  5. You're not talking. Well, I would say you owe an apology. A big one. The longer you leave this, the worse it will be. I'm hoping this is the mistake you learn from. I would say that everyone deserves a 2nd chance, so I'm hoping that he agrees. Don't ever ask for a 3rd.

  6. Marriages are hard, we all say and do things we regret, big and small. I hope you have the capacity to learn, and he has the capacity to forgive. Then you'll all be OK.

Lweji · 27/06/2014 18:35

I would only ask ask if someone shares their story with you, hear it.

quite. We heard this woman's story and we are telling her that what she did is very wrong.
It's not about the wider problem of dv or abuse. It's about this case. And in this case the woman was violent and shouldn't have. We are responding gender neutrally because it does not matter who is abusive or violent. It matters the behaviours.

That the children witnessed it makes it even worse.
They may or may not remember, but they are affected.

And at people minimising it because he will survive or it's no big deal, as a woman who separated due to dv of similar gravity (only twice, not just once), I say shame on you. And I'm sure all the women, and men, who have gone through similar first events, will say the same. If not addressed properly this opens the door to more violence, on both sides!
I wonder if you are this violent as well, or have been putting up with it, in which case get out.

Etah · 27/06/2014 18:42

It is a shame that the OP is not coming back, because I really want to know why they were arguing about the chicken...was it undercooked? overcooked? not seasoned properly?

Shesparkles · 27/06/2014 18:52

I would confirm what redglitter has said about people being jailed for domestic assaults/disagreements.

In Scotland, the police force operates an absolute zero tolerance approach to domestic issues. It doesn't matter if it's a domestic assault or breach of the peace, the perpetrator WILL be jailed for court, on the next available day.

Bail conditions are ALWAYS set which are for the perpetrator to stay away from the victim, no matter the gender. In the time between that court appearance, and the perpetrator appearing for sentencing, police will visit the perpetrator AT LEAST 3 times to make sure the bail conditions are being kept to, and to drive home that domestic abuse of any kind, verbal, physical, emotional etc, will NOT be tolerated.

Bear in mind this is in Scotland, and when I go in to nightshift tonight, I will be despatch ing officers to carry out these visits to perpetrators. That's how it is

Redglitter · 27/06/2014 19:01

Thank you shesparkles for that. I was getting a bit fed up being told I was so totally wrong when I wasn't lol

Hope you're night shifts a non busy one I wonder how many crews ill be short on the morning finishing up tonight's domestics

lunar1 · 27/06/2014 19:06

Some great victim blaming going on, the op should have left and got herself some anger management arranged. It's not surprising violence against men is often not reported.

chocolatedrops31 · 27/06/2014 19:07

You pushed him and he fell? Ohh dear like my 3years old love to say

Call the UN! The army! Someone please!!!

Elleann · 27/06/2014 19:08

Thing is I was pushed to the floor and had a door battered against me. I phoned the police and they just said lock your doors and if we find him we will tell him to stay away. This was in Scotland. They didn't find him and my ex took all the keys so I couldn't lock the doors.

chocolatedrops31 · 27/06/2014 19:10

Sorry my DH wrote that previous post without me seeing it Hmm

Shesparkles · 27/06/2014 19:12

Elleann, what I'm referring to has been policy since the inception of police Scotland on 01/04/13. Previously things weren't dealt with so robustly by all the individual forces, I'm sorry you had the experience that you did

Devora · 27/06/2014 19:23

I feel like I've fallen down a rabbithole. This thread is about the maddest thing I've ever read on MN. And I've been here 10 years.

fifi669 · 27/06/2014 19:25

In which way?

CurtWild · 27/06/2014 19:38

shesparkles red ..the police in my area (not scotland) basically told me to leave with 3 babies in tow if I was frightened. Visited the next day and told him not to push me again. That was it. Oh, I got a letter offering advice on how to deal with any further abuse. This was about a year ago. So yeah, obviously I don't know where OP lives but if it's anywhere near me they won't do more than slap her hand.

Next time I phoned them for him smashing stuff up in front of our DC, they took him away for 2 hours to calm down for breaching the peace. That was it.

The police officer once again told me to leave. It was evident to me they saw it as my responsibility to leave rather than my stbxh's.

So I left.

It seems this is a one off incident so OP's husband may decide against taking it further. Or it may have crossed a boundary he's not willing to compromise on. Either way I find it unlikely OP will return to her thread, although I hope she does.

Honestly? If my stbxh had 'seen red' once, I would probably have moved on with caution. But there were already nasty events running up to him pushing me and after..so no, it was yet another straw on the camel's back.

AnonyMuse · 27/06/2014 19:46

OK. I have a question for those of you who maintain that any level of physical aggression, no matter how minor, and no matter what the circumstances, constitutes DV.

In December I discovered, just after it had ended, that my DH had had a 3 month affair. I decided against immediate separation and to establish whether we could repair our marriage. I concluded (a few weeks on) that I needed to know precisely when he had seen the OW and what had happened between them on each occasion. I needed to know when and what lies he had told to enable him to conduct his affair, which parts of our life over that period had been a fabrication.

I insisted that we sat down and go through his diary. This took about half an hour and learning all the details of his betrayal was an excruciatingly painful experience. I confess that, in my agony and fury, I kicked him. On his foot. I was wearing light slipper-type shoes and he was wearing heavy solid shoes. It didn't hurt him at all. Though had he been barefoot I'm sure I would still have done it. I am far slighter and smaller than he is and I doubt he was in the slightest bit fearful for his physical safety.

Do those of you who consider that there should be a zero tolerance policy to acts of physical aggression really think that constituted DV??

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/06/2014 19:51

I am far slighter and smaller than he is and I doubt he was in the slightest bit fearful for his physical safety.

Why do you feel the need to justify it by saying this

Boudica1990 · 27/06/2014 19:53

shesparkles and red I can say that Wales have a very similar zero tolerance policy

AnonyMuse · 27/06/2014 19:57

Because there was absolutely no chance of him being intimidated. Had I been the 6'2" solidly built ex-serviceman and him the 5'8" and slight woman, then even in the circumstances of extreme provocation which I have described it would have constituted an abuse of physical power.

So, Boney, do you think my DH should have called the police and I should have been charged with assault?

Anone · 27/06/2014 19:57

Don't want to derail but can a parent so easily walk out on a child who is guilty of DV? It seems unlikely

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25850554

EarthWindFire · 27/06/2014 20:02

do you think my DH should have called the police and I should have been charged with assault?

Not Boney, but personally if you assault someone, then you should be charged as such, what has size and height got yo do with it.

By your analogy, no woman should be charged as they will in the majority of cases be smaller than men. Does that give women the right to go and do whatever they want then?

Anone · 27/06/2014 20:06

"what has size and height got yo do with it"

Unless they are a minor.....

AnonyMuse · 27/06/2014 20:09

No, EarthWind, I am certainly not saying that the smaller and slighter partner should be at liberty to "do whatever they want". That would be ridiculous.

But what I am saying is that I don't believe that every tiny act of physical aggression (a slight push, a light kick on a fully shod foot) should be taken to constitute DV, justifying the full force of the law. Clearly if someone is actually hurt, or is actually intimidated, that is different. And I am also saying that I think the circumstances in which it happened are relevant (though nothing can ever justify actual harm or actual intimidation).

MrsWolowitz · 27/06/2014 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Redglitter · 27/06/2014 20:12

That's the thing though with Forces having a zero tolerance policy now if someone's assaulted by their partner in a Force operating like that then whether it results in actually injuries or not then they WILL be arrested for domestic assault.

Shesparkles · 27/06/2014 20:18

Again, echoing Redglitter it's the act of violence the person is jailed for! not the consequences. The theory being that if police go in hard line at the beginning, perpetrators may think twice before they do it again.
We regularly have BOTH parties being jailed if there's a screaming argument or one party assaults the other who then retaliates.

There are no exceptions

Redglitter · 27/06/2014 20:19

You don't get a fraction of those options here Mrsw

Any charges regardless of previous convictions etc will mean the perpetrator being held in custody until they appear in court as shesparkles outlined further back