Week from hell. I think DH has lost the plot.

[Fideliney]

He seems to be saying today that he would rather divorce than curb his hoard, but he's flip-flopping a lot.

Any hoarding widows about who can help me decode this escalating mess?

The background is a shit year of ill health and various stresses. The hoarding has been spiralling. Exhausted and at a bit of a loss

I'm sorry, Longtall but in my experience, if you try that with a hoarder they'll just freeze in panic - sort of curl up like a hedgehog under threat. It's not productive.

Fair enough x

And put photographs of the hoards on the note.

Read through this yesterday... but can't remember if he's still paying £500 pm for storage. If he is, can you assert that you'd like £500pm as well over and above the family income pool to spend on your hobbies / indulgences? That's only fair.

It's not so much that hoarding is no longer classified as OCD in DSM V, it's that within the chapter on 'obsessive compulsive and related disorders', hoarding is given a unique diagnosis to address the specifics of the condition.

It used to be seen purely as a symptom of OCD, whereas now it's a defined as a disorder in its own right. It has some aspects in common with OCD and some aspects that are different.

That does make sense as it clearly has an obsessive compulsive aspect to it. I think that what makes it different could be that it's less to do with intrusive thoughts and rituals etc which I gather are prevalent with OCD but aren't necessarily present with most hoarders.

Maryz, Sometimes people need time and support to stop accepting it. Above all they need to understand it thoroughly so that if they do leave there is no regret.

Yes I agree he isn't managing the illness itself well at all. And I completely agree that Fideliney has been the driving force behind the management of the hoard. What I meant is, he is not typical in that usually there is mess everywhere, absolute carnage and the hoard itself is only one aspect of what's usually a completely avoidant personality. So there will be no cleaning, no organisation, no doing of anything. He seems to clean and tidy and actually does work in the house.

I'm not discussing OCD vs other disorders as an attempt at diagnosing or anything specific to this situation, I am just interested in it and like discussing it.

My initial advice to the OP still stands. I think she should put herself and her children first. I don't think she should try to fix this.

If it were me (so easy to say when it's not you) I would be moving out, or getting all the rubbish moved out and stored elsewhere for him to deal with (or not, as the case may be). We would not be living together.

A discussion about hoarding and OCD is perfectly relevant at this stage. OP is not a child that needs telling what to do!

It's so hard, isn't it. I always say if we could all trade issues and sort each other's problems out, everyone's life would be perfect. It's not so easy when it's your life and someone you love.

Good luck, OP. I think it's telling that you are nostalgic for a time when it was just you and your children. Sometimes relationships run their course and that's ok, even if it is painful.

it's ALL supportive. a range of views is supportive.

Is there significance in the fact that he chose to put all his work paperwork into YOUR antique filing cabinet? I'm afraid I still see some of this as attempting to punish you.

I find it interesting he can be away from home/away from the hoard for such long periods of time. I don't know if that's usual?

Interestingly the person I know with this condition also worked away a lot in a very prestigious media job and no one had a clue. She felt like she loved and needed the stuff :(

If he's confident that hoard is sitting there waiting for him, I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem - he can arrive back and everything in his life is complete. A perfect return in fact.

I should imagine it would be a different story if he thought things might 'disappear' when he was gone.

i do see that filing cabinet as a sort of colonisation. i'm beginning to feel alarm bells but could just be me.

Good luck - I agree that in one sense it can become a bit redundant and futile to find a label to put on people - one psychologist said, which I think is brilliant: don't worry about the label, what is the behaviour. What problems does the behaviour cause and what can be done to help change or regulate the behaviour?

Sadly, looking at my experiences with my dad, it seems likely that you will have to take serious measures in order to get through to him that this is serious and this is incompatible with the relationship continuing - well that would be my view, I don't think you can keep on living with a hoarder if it is causing you massive rage.

As an outsider looking in - I'm so, so sorry Fide. He's never going to change. You are going to be posting the same stuff here every couple of months possibly for years until you reach your own mental breaking point and initiate divorce proceedings. He is ill, and he is addicted. He does love his stuff more than you. You can't change that. Only he can, and right now, he doesn't want to. I'm so sorry. Without professional help that he is willing to engage with, he never will. And the chances of him engaging are zero in reality. I have no doubt that you know that deep down, but you have to come to terms with it in your own way and time.

Me too.
I can see no way out of this that doesn't involve him either leaving or you leaving.
I think the pp idea of waiting til he is gone in a trip, putting it all in storage and changing the locks is a plan.
Also take photos of the hoard, then get yourself to a solicitor.
Easy to say of course.
Must be so hard for you...hoarders aren't bad or evil or nasty...but they have MH issues and need help and the the vast majority (imho) will never agree to that.
The hoard comes before everything else..family, friends....:(

I agree with Maryz and Holger. You can't make him change, OP. I do believe very strongly that hoarding is a mental illness and I feel very sorry for your DH, but no way do I think that the fact that it's an illness means you're obligated to accommodate it. No way should you feel like you have to put up with it because "he can't help it." I think that if you forced him to make a straightforward choice between his family and his stuff, he would very likely choose his stuff (and indignantly rather than regretfully - he'd cast you as the unreasonable, controlling bad guy who "just doesn't understand. ") He's showing no signs of accepting that he has a problem, is he? I think you may need to walk away, I'm afraid.

I'm packing to go away with the DC for the weekend. I will read properly later.

Have been reflecting on the timescales a bit.

We have been together 4 years, married almost exactly 2, but he was so busy with work he didn't put his flat on the market until our first wedding anniversary rolled around and when it was snapped up immediately he seemed taken aback/panicked.

So it is just under a year since we actually finally moved into together in the sense that we combined the two households of 'stuff' and when you consider he is only here 2 weeks in every 8 and I have been ill, it has been mere weeks. So this is the moving in with a hoarder crisis really, much delayed.

And when I was angry I felt that the despondent plan to go and live in a camper was manipulation, a way of shutting down discussion, which is indeed the EFFECT but it is delivered like the curling hedgehog someone describes.

I feel like I have captured a lesser spotted eccentric bachelor and tried to force it to live in captivity, but he concealed all this perfectly until post-wedding.

I'm hoping this break will clear my head.