Week from hell. I think DH has lost the plot.

[Fideliney]

He seems to be saying today that he would rather divorce than curb his hoard, but he's flip-flopping a lot.

Any hoarding widows about who can help me decode this escalating mess?

The background is a shit year of ill health and various stresses. The hoarding has been spiralling. Exhausted and at a bit of a loss

Has he ever really dealt with his father's suicide do you think?
Apart from the implication that there may be inherited mental health issues here, if he never really processed his father's death, that may play a part in his disordered behaviour now.

He won't even see GP to discuss possible depression. He often needs to be insured to work foreign contracts and he has some fear of besmirching his medical records. He is a workaholic and often works away from home in 6-8 week stints so he is constantly on the move and doesn't have to face things. We do.

He also has an annoying habit recently of pointing to all his work success as some kind of proof that he is functional. Fucking cheeky when I o longer have a study to do my work from and I am the one left here feelin oppressed by it all.

Not sure what my point is really.

He's off doing a work prep thing now thankfully.

I'm not sure Twink. He doesn't 'do' graves - fair enough. He's never read the note that was left, I know that. So I suppose that's a no.

It sounds cruel but I'd enlist your DC while he's away and just blitz the place. I recognise that this may not be a good/fair/nice option but I couldn't live like that. Hope it gets better OP.

He needs to read that note, he needs to go to see the grave.

I would insist on it, nothing will get better if he lives his life in denial.

My mother hoards and I've also been involved, tangentially, with helping other people who hoard in the past.

Sometimes people can be wanting to 'lose' difficult things.emotions and so on, sometimes even objects which remind them of this, in all the clutter. Which means that the idea of clearing the clutter is really saying to them, now you have to face up to this terrible thing that is so awful and terrifying that you have avoided it for xx years. Which is where some of the extreme reactions/irrationality can come in. But ignore this if it doesn't feel relevant to you.

Do you think that he was hoarding more while you were ill? Or has it come on again more recently?

If he refuses treatment then you don't really have an option but to split.

Whereabouts are your kids at sixth form, could you consider somewhere on the mainline into London?

I would be cautious about forcing him to deal with issues around his father without professional guidance, as it could exacerbate the behaviours.

That's interesting tender buttons, not something I've heard before but makes a lot of sense. It's avoidance.

I was reared with hoarders and it really affected my confidence. I was too embarrassed to bring friends in because of the mess. It was an unhappy home with lots of arguments due to the chaos in which we lived. All my siblings would say it affected us and we all left home as soon as we possibly could.

Your DH has suffered terribly because of his father and it is very sad. You and your DC do however deserve to live in a decent environment. Obviously moving is maybe too drastic but it's only fair to insist that you have some space which is habitable. I hope things improve for you.

Next time he is away with work I would just clear the house, your children deserve a normal home.

Where does he get the stuff from? How does a whole wall of boxes just suddenly appear?

The approach to dealing with hoarding is so different from how other addictions etc are approached. With a gambler you'd have no hesitation taking away access to money, with an alcoholic the same - and yet with hoarders a softly softly attitude which basically allows them to carry on as they are is what seem to happen.

I don't have any answers, I'm just musing, but it is clear that your primary concern should be your children, not your husband.

Oh it is Alibaba but paradoxically I think that's causing some of the problem. They have already experienced their parents' divorce, witnessed their fathers aggression and attempts to break into our home etc, now have no contact with him, two of them have SN yadda yadda.

I am so insanely keen to protect them for further disruption/upset/trauma, I am in danger of not thinking clearly.

Out of interest - what would you be doing now if he had an alcohol or drug addiction which was affecting you and your children?

Was your last relationship abusive? Not saying that DH is, but thinking about why you are trying to not rock the boat.

Alcoholism doesn't have this stealth element.

Not in any ongoing way unreal. ExH became violent when I was pregnant with DD and had a toddler and that was the end of that really, but the legal wrangles and threats etc dragged on for years. ExH was always confident etc but turned out to be a complete bully, thief, liar, arch manipulator. Every sign of sociopathy going.

They couldn't be more different. DH is very quiet, self effacing, nerdy, techy. When not obsessing over the hoard he is considerate, thoughtful, hardworking, generous. No complaints at all. DC really like him. (Although raise their eyebroys when new boxes and sheds appear and seem a bit pissed off recently)

But both addicts apparently

Need to go out now. Thanks everyone will come back and read properly later with clearer head.

Hmm i can see you are really torn.

I really would be inclined to just get a man and a skip and chuck the lot, and then when he kicks off you can tell him that how he feels now is how you've felt for years with your living space compromised and the lack of a peaceful home.

If he genuinely wants to change then that will be the catalyst. Alternatively it will be the end of your marriage, but at least you'll already have cleared the house.

I know I'm sounding very harsh, but cozie is right - you wouldn't tolerate a drink or drug addiction to continue in your home and affect your children, and this should be no different.

.... When not obsessing over the hoard he is.....

As with all addicts, I think you have to consider how much of him you really know and also where his primary loyalty lies/relationship is. In that regard, your ..... He also has an annoying habit recently of pointing to all his work success as some kind of proof that he is functional .... is interesting. It sounds as though he's starting to become defensive - and that means he's trying to protect something. I doubt whether it's you.

If you and the DCs were his primary concern, would he not have actually listened to you before now? It sounds right now as if he's doing what he does to keep you off his back. That doesn't give me grounds for optimism.

Anyway - enough. I think you have some long thinking to do.

I hope you get a few hours out in the fresh air this afternoon.

but you wouldn't necessarily just get rid of the booze with an alcoholic. you'd realise that wasnt addressing the actual issue as alcohol is easily accessible. same with this really. if the dh doesn't change himself then the op's role is to decide whether she can live with it or not.

Wow I'm not surprised you are at your wit's end. I am afraid I would probably react in the way Alibaba suggests. It will force his hand, either by accelerating the end of your marriage or making him realise you are serious about it and he needs help. You are being crippled by his hoarding problem and refusal to deal with it.

I'm going to be a bit tough here ... My father was a hoarder. He was actually an antique dealer and he hoarded stock. We had a big, six storey house and every bit of it was stacked up with 'stock'. Even the stairs - had about six inches of visible tread in the middle, with 'stuff' each side. When he ran out of space (even used the damp cellar) he actually buried stuff in the garden! In my bedroom, I had to edge my way through stacks of 'stuff' to get to my bed. And avoid tripping over the huge astronomical telescope set up in the room too! When he died, in 1995, unopened boxes full of stuff he'd bought in auction from 1950s were found. My siblings' and my childhood was totally miserable.

More recently, a distant relative by marriage had a huge hoarding problem. He too kept just about every bloody thing that had ever come his way. Plus half a dozen or so old cars kept in the garden, and the garage full of big ,obsolete and totally valueless machines from his various businesses. Every birthday, Christmas presents that had come into the house was opened, looked at, then put away. God forbid anyone should eat the chocolates, biscuits, drink the booze.

His wife lived in utter misery but was too cowed and ground down to do anything about it. When he died, she wouldn't agree to junking anything, so at her insistence, it all went into storage, where it's still there, at a huge monthly rental!

You have been warned. It won't get any better. It really won't.

I wasn't going to share this as I didn't want to upset the op further but I was best friends with a girl at school whose mother was a hoarder.
It was awful :(
Her childhood was utterly blighted by it.
She couldn't ask friends back, boyfriends, anyone.
I was trusted simply because we had known each other so long...
After Xmas her mother would even refuse to get rid of the wrapping a paper...it was kept, in piles, in the corner of the room "for the dog to play in" until it totally disintegrated (about May time)
I am sure she was mentally ill.
She was widowed when pg her second child, and never really got over it, despite going on to have my friend.
Very, very sad.
But you cannot help him if he won't engage or admit he has a problem.
You need to do some damage control and protect you and your dc.
X

I really would be inclined to just get a man and a skip and chuck the lot, and then when he kicks off you can tell him that how he feels now is how you've felt for years with your living space compromised and the lack of a peaceful home.

I probably haven't described him well. I can't imagine him kicking off. Ever.

I'm trying to imagine what he would do as it is a empting practical option that I have considered/threatened before and might yet choose.

The FEAR is that he would be so upset he would do himself some form of harm. He would be very upset. He is not a shouter or ranter. He is a sulker is anything.