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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dating thread 76

999 replies

LoisPuddingLane · 11/06/2014 10:57

As we were saying...

OP posts:
SingleSock · 09/07/2014 20:28

Hi, may I join this thread too please?

I've posted a couple of threads about having a FWB. I did find someone on POF but he appears to have lost interest now so I'm deciding what to do. Up until now I haven't considered having a relationship but I really enjoyed the excitement of a FWB and so I'm thinking 'sod it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained' so might just go on some dates and see where it takes me without overthinking it like I always do.

Could anyone talk me through my concerns though please?

  1. I'm a bit put off by the whole online thing. I know so many people do it these days but is there still a stigma attached? I have laughed at tag lines that say 'if anyone asks, we met in a club' Grin so I'm thinking people are still a bit uncomfortable about it?
  1. Worrying that my H will find out. We've been separated a year nearly after his numerous affairs. He still wants me back though and I don't want to anger/upset him. He will rip the piss mercilessly too. For this reason I don't want to put a photo on. Considering keeping my profile hidden and approaching guys myself. Will this work?
  1. Not really knowing what I want. I've put dating - nothing serious for now because that seems most apt.
  1. Not having a clue what to put on my profile. I have hobbies but they sound really shit. I hate talking about myself as well. Most of my time is spent working, with the kids or out with friends. I don't do very much besides which makes me sound boring Sad. My sense of humour is quite dry so doesn't translate well in writing I don't think. I've read quite a few articles about writing profiles but I still feel stumped.
  1. I'm quite shy so worry about meeting people face to face (despite doing that for a job but that's work so it's different).
  1. Wondering if anybody will want me. I have three DC and I think most men are looking for childless women. Not to mention the fact that I'm technically still married?
  1. I do not photograph well at all.

I think that's it for now. This thread has been good to read though as it sounds like others have had some good dates etc.

BeforeAndAfter · 09/07/2014 22:01

Singlesock I'm by no means an guru on this stuff but to respond to a couple of your points.

Stigma - my step-daughter met her boyfriend on-line. She's beautiful, funny and 23 years old. She works hard and has no time to go out to meet fellas of an evening. All her young gorgeous friends do OLD, it's quite the thing apparently - who knew?? I think the stigma-vibes emanate from the smug-marrieds, some of whom will have their bums bitten one day when their perfect H's turn out to be wankers just like ours were...

It's fine not to display your photo and approach guys. I've had a lot of success like this but you need to be in the right frame of mind. On POF I have a photo but it's private. This means the men can see there's a photo so if they like the profile they'll contact me and ask to see the photo. At least if I get a message then I know they've read my profile!

If all you want is an FWB have you tried the NSA sites? They're taboo to talk about but I've had great fun from them. You both want sex, no ties, no lies, no hassle. Again, I don't put a photo up and you do need to 'gird your loins' in terms of the photos some these guys have but it is honest... and if you haven't fainted in shock at my suggestion it's food for thought! Come to think of it my best dates have been NSA site ones.

SingleSock · 09/07/2014 22:10

Grin thanks Before. I did have a quick look at the NSA sites but I was almost immediately put off by the photos and the names. Are they all looking for a one off or a more regular arrangement? I'm not really into ONSs and wouldn't want to get with an absolute tosser.

I wish I knew what I wanted...

BeforeAndAfter · 09/07/2014 22:24

I landed a lovely one! Very intelligent, regular dinner and regular sex. Handsome, separated, 10 years younger... Both of us knew we weren't looking for a relationship. We saw each other on and off for a few months. He had very young kids (under 5) that I had absolutely no interest in and we were at very different stages in our lives so I knew I would never grow attached. He suddenly met someone he wanted a relationship with so we called it a day quite amicably. The deal worked well on both sides. You have to be seriously hard nosed about it though.

And to think that three years ago (almost to the day) when I left my XH I didn't even know what NSA meant... I'd read it on here, googled it, reached for the smelling salts, bleached my eyes and then thought "oh fuck it..."

ladygoingGaga · 09/07/2014 22:55

Well second date with mr Finance today, lunch and a lovely walk. Had a lovely time, the time flew by. We have so much in common, have a similar outlook on life.
I actually feel excited, and just warm and fuzzy. At the end of the walk there was a short kiss, and then he asked me out for dinner next week Grin
Why do I want to pinch myself

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 06:56

Hello. Me again... This is quite long. Once again, I'm writing more to get it all down and off my chest, rather than because I expect 'the answer' or any answers, as such...

I know I've asked this sort of question before, but it's something that keeps rearing its ugly head for me and I can't ever get to a point where I truly understand the answer or feel I've accepted it, rather I just feel I can't question it anymore because everyone is saying the same thing and I would just sound churlish to continue... and I might even believe it for a day or two... but then it returns... and worsens... until I reach the point I'm at now, again...

So...

My boyfriend behaves very much as though he loves me. And I think I believe that he does. He says some very lovely things, but they're not gushing, they're more steady and constant. So he tells me that he loves me and can't imagine not having me in his life now; he talks about having a happy and more mature relationship, one without the pain and anxiety that many of his previous loves have been characterised by - he's never blamed any of his exes but said that he was insecure at times and worried about who they were with and talking to. He has told me things that have suggested he didn't try and restrict them (and he's certainly not done that to me either), but I think the inner turmoil ate him up. He took a break from relationships for a while but was dating. He has said he knew from the first time he met me that this had the potential to be special because he could see something in me that intrigued him and I was different to the other women he's met. And that he hadn't gone into it intending to fall in love, but that he had. I think he's struggled with it as much as I have at times... And I don't think he meant I was different in that 'red flag' way, I think I probably am different to the sort of woman he usually goes for - put it like this, his exes have been all bikinis, pool parties and backpacking; I'm more camping and cakes...

When I told him I felt a little insecure at times the other night, he was so lovely and reassured me so well. I don't really feel I have any reason to doubt him.

But I still don't feel good enough...

Words he uses to describe me are: beautiful; pretty; lovely; sweet. He loves the fact that I'm kind and thoughtful and he said I am hugely generous and that people see a quality in me that means they know they can trust me and reach out to me (he's said that a couple of times recently in response to interactions I've had with complete strangers). But he also says he knows he can trust me himself... The other morning he cuddled up to me in bed kissed me and told me he loved me. And then he said, "mm, you're so warm and soft". And this last line has killed me..!

My mother (her again...) told me I was the sort of girl men 'settled for' rather than fell in love with.
I had a friend when I was younger who was very 'sexual' in her whole being. She oozed sexuality in a way that I, even with a corset, big boots and backcombed hair, still oozed wholesomeness and innocent charm. I have always been told I have a 'mischevousness' about me. But I'm not sexy. Anyway, a friend of ours told me not to worry, that she was the sort of girl men want to fuck, I'm the sort they want to marry.
Both of those things have left me feeling like a bit of a plain jane. Tbh.

I am probably a stone heavier than I'd really like, but without it, I'd just be a stone less 'soft' I wouldn't be toned or gorgeous or sexy... and from what he has said about previous exes, that's the sort he goes for. And he could probably get them too. I think he's gorgeous and he has a fantastic body! I could just look at him all day long...

Sorry, this is long Sad

And this is what I just can't get past. The fact is, I'm not sexy. I am lovely and sweet. I am reasonably attractive. My boyfriend seems happy enough to be seen with me in public - we hold hands all the time and it's a conscious hand holding (IYKWIM). He kisses me in public, strokes my hair and is generally phsysically affectionate in public...

But there's still the thought that - what if part of my attraction is that he doesn't feel as insecure with me because he doesn't think I'll be as attractive to other men as his exes were; or perhaps he's made a conscious effort to go for someone very different from his past loves..? And in very different he means, 'less sexy'; or 'less attractive'? What if he's attracted to my personality rather than my looks? He said that he's interested in more than my 'physical attributes' but that feels like I've failed.

I said I wondered how he could be content with me and only seeing each other fortnightly when he must be surrounded by young and beautiful women at work and socially all the time and he could surely meet someone there (he is, I've seen photos of his work colleagues...). He said that there are some good looking women at work, but do I really think that is going to change how he feels about me?

And then he's just so lovely and kind to me that I feel I have no right to be with him and that he deserves one of these beautiful, sexy young women. He's done nothing to deserve having to settle for 'soft' and warm and lovely. If I say anything about losing any weight, he just looks a bit puzzled and asks me why, and tells me he loves me just as I am...

I just feel like a complete fraud.

And I wish I was sexy and gorgeous. Not because he makes me feel like I'm not good enough, but because I believe that I am, objectively, not.

And I really should lose that stone...

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 07:26

Just to clarify... I'm nearly 40; 5'3; about 10 stone. I'm at the hourglass end of pear shaped; I have boobs, a waist and a bum; I have a soft squishy tummy. I'm... marshmallowy... I suppose.

I look quite good (but not slim) in clothes, but you wouldn't want to see me in artificial light or a bikini...

There was a post on here a while ago from one of the men who said that when they were younger looks were the only thing that mattered, but now they were older they looked beyond that and looked at the 'whole person'. I know that's the mature way and how it should be, but at the same time, I think I'd hate to be with someone who looked at me and thought they wouldn't have been interested in me 20 years ago on looks alone, but now, with personality and slightly lower expectations thrown in, I'm more appealling.

I don't think I'm hideous (which, tbf, is a massive improvement!) but I find it upsetting to think that his friends and family might have met me and thought that he's lowered his standards a bit... Sad

dippinmytoe · 10/07/2014 08:12

folk stop panicking !! if your boyfriend wanted one of these 'beautiful' women , I'm sure he could have one... but he doesn't !! none of the relationships with beautiful women has lasted!! Your boyfriend sees your beauty , even if you don't! !I am 5 ft 9, a bit too heavy, but I am of a large build , I will never be size zero or nice and petite , I have boobs , a waist and 2 c sections and I'm told by lots of guys I'm stunning ( I don't quite believe this) but it is good for an ego boost ... All men can't get together and say .. tell that one that she is stunning ;-) My ex shattered my confidence, even a few weeks ago he said to me ' look at the state of you , no wonder you are single !!' , i now rise above his crap and am slowly beginning to believe I am not hideous like he suggests!! Believe in yourself folk your boyfriend obviously does :-(

dippinmytoe · 10/07/2014 08:13

That was meant to be a smiley face :-)

mariposaazul · 10/07/2014 09:10

Folk I'm sure yr bf meant that as a compliment & to show how at ease he feels with you...
I guess this is yr lack of confidence(?) & would imagine his family would most want him to be with someone kind (the highest accolade to me) rather than only good looking which has no necessary correlation with being a good person....what do you want to be?

Minime85 · 10/07/2014 13:22

Oh folk.i can completely see where you are coming from.it sounds though as what he said was just so genuinely warm and lovely about you he completely meant it in a lovely way about being soft. And to be fundamentally seen as someone who can be trusted is very important in my opinion. I would love to be seen in that way.
I hope you are feeling better having got it all down here. I think we sound very similar in looks and I've been poorly recently and lost some weight. It hasn't made me any happier and my boobs have definitely shrunk Hmm

Try and see your inner and outer beauty and it comes over in abundance on here. Honestly it does Thanks

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 16:35

Thank you...

dippin I've been told recently that I'm 'pretty' (I sort of feel a bit too old to be described as pretty now!) and I do get told that I'm 'lovely' a lot. But I suppose I just want him to look at me and want to describe me as 'sexy' and not 'soft'. That's why I think I've failed... I think. I had a pretty much sexless marriage with my exH who had some funny ideas about women and sex. Proper madonna/whore stuff and he told me early on that he thought I was too good to have that 'done' to me. I think that's probably left it's mark and I'm not sexy. And I'm really conscious of it.

mariposa You'd think wouldn't you. But he told me that the first thing his mother ever asks when he has a new girlfriend is, "Is she pretty?" He said she never asks if they're kind or make him happy. And his mum and sister are both very slim and his mother was beautiful when she was younger; proper take your breath away beautiful. Sad

Mini That's why I'm holding off losing the stone, tbh. I'm currently a 34E. If I lose weight from my boobs, and they're about the only thing I've got going for me, physically. I don't have nice legs or a nice arse. And he is a boob man, I suppose... but then there are so many boobs that are better than mine. I really don't have anything going for me at all...

dippinmytoe · 10/07/2014 16:50

Well folk why don't you go shopping for some tarty stuff!! just because others have said it's not you, doesn't mean you can't be sexy!! change your make up a bit and voila dita von tesse!!

MadeMan · 10/07/2014 17:18

ladygoingGaga - Sounds good so far. Smile

louby44 · 10/07/2014 17:43

Date #2 with Mr Keen who, to be fair isn't as full on keen - which is good!

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 17:45

That' the thing, dippin. I used to be a SuperGoth - lots of lace, backcombed hair, sexy make up, stiletto boots, PVC, the works...

But I was disappointingly wholesome and sweet... Hmm

I don't want to be 'tarty'. I just want to have that effortless sexiness of someone who just is

I'm pale and a bit freckly. I like my make up to be quite natural nowadays. I wouldn't have a clue where to start in making myself 'sexy'.

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 17:48

In fact, I think I'd feel a bit ridiculous... And I'd feel worried in case in thought I was ridiculous.

BeforeAndAfter · 10/07/2014 17:51

Folk if I came on here and said I'm described as beautiful, pretty, lovely, sweet, kind, thoughtful, generous, trustworthy, warm and soft I bet you would envy me and tell me how lucky I was to have a man who saw (and articulated) so many wonderful things in me. The fact is I don't; YOU do.

I think being described as warm and soft is lovely - it's your translation tool in your brain that needs resetting here. For me warm and soft is feminine, it says Titian, it says a wonderful smell that means you can be you, it says so many positive things about the best of being in a couple. It says intimate. A man will look at a woman in a bar and describe her as sexy, he would not describe her as warm and soft; it's deliciously intimate and I think it's something that's only said when a man feels secure and safe. It does not say overweight marshmallow! If a man snuggled into me and said that I was warm and soft I'd feel very happy and very secure.

Besides, if you do want to be a sex goddess then why not buy some fabulous underwear and rock it? I bet you would!

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 17:54

Lady That certainly sounds like it's going well then... It doesn't sound like you need to pinch yourself.

single In response to your points... Smile

1 - I don't think their is a stigma attached to OD anymore. I treated it like a bit of a hobby and was lucky to meet someone nice. I think if you go into it Husband Hunting, then you might well be disappointed. I agree, the stigma is really only held by the 'smug marrieds' and those otherwise protected in their ivory towers. I told everyone I was doing it. I wasn't ashamed in the slightest Smile

2 - I always approached men. In fact, I didn't very often reply to men who approached me. I searched extensively and if someone caught my eye I messaged them.

I don't think you need to worry about having children either.

mariposaazul · 10/07/2014 18:02

Folk - before is right...do think about what you consider to be good traits in a person...presumably "being pretty" isn't one of them!
His mother sounds a bit silly if that's all she wants to know...though could be how she approaches the topic - and whoever says their gf isn't pretty/attractive anyway?!

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 18:09

Before You know, you're right. I would envy that. And I think I agree - it is feminine... I suppose the issue for me is exactly what you said in your second paragraph, A man will look at a woman in a bar and describe her as sexy.

I suppose I think that if he walked in to a bar and saw a woman and would describe her as sexy, would me being warm and soft and lovely be able to stand against that? Would he still choose me over that?

I know that if I were to read all that about someone else, I'd think it sounded perfect, but because it's me, it sounds like it's just describing something substandard.

And as far as 'fabulous underwear' goes, I wouldn't have a clue where to start...

I'm sorry, I must sound like such a whingebag. I would just rather let my insecurities out on here that in RL with him.

mariposaazul · 10/07/2014 18:09

Singlesock - I think anyone who has ventured into OLD has worried about these things..I must have taken 20+ photos that I couldn't bear to use(!) ... you have to give it a go & mostly learn from experience & you decide what is acceptable or not for you...these people exist in the real world too so I don't think we should worry too much about online etiquette - people are still versions of themselves, perhaps a bit more uninhibited online(?) Or a bit nastier than they would dare to one's face...
And agree with others the stigma is gone though many people remain reluctant to say it's how they met...

FolkGirl · 10/07/2014 18:14

I know, I know, mariposa. I suppose I just think that if he has the opportunity to cheat on me with someone else, the only thing that would influence whether he did or not was whether she was prettier and sexier than me or not.

I sort of know that's not how it works... but the messages I got growing up that being pretty is all that counts, and you're not and no one's ever going to love you were pretty strong and it all feels very transient. Like he could forget really quickly that he loves me and I could be replaced really easily.

mariposaazul · 10/07/2014 18:19

Folk that's so sad....I still think you need to think in terms of what attributes you value in others...
We all have insecurities but need to summon up all our courage & dare to love despite it being a risky business...& I can still say this who has been completely unlucky in love! I'd say you are actually rather better at relationships than me so do try not to imagine the worst...

BeforeAndAfter · 10/07/2014 18:24

My point about the woman in the bar is it's not much better than a bloke looking at Page 3 really. It's abstract, it's objective, it's out of context. If he started talking to Miss Sexy and she turned out to be everything he didn't like he'd stop thinking she was sexy really quickly. I bet your man thinks you're sexy, he just sees and emotionally feels the whole you and is describing the whole you. Your man wants to make love to you because you're soft and warm and all of those other lovely words. I think that's wonderful.

I'm quite happy to engage in NSA sex when I'm described as hot or sexy. I'd never be assigned the adjectives you've mentioned when engaged in NSA sex and, to be honest, I wouldn't want to - it would be weird.

As for underwear - go classy. A beautiful camisole with matching knickers might appeal to you. I love French knickers as I'm not a big fan of the tops of my legs and I think French knickers are much more alluring than skimpy G-strings on me. The stupid thing is the underwear comes off pretty quickly and that's the real measure of how sexy you are. I've found there's a reverse correlation between the length of time underwear stays on and depth & intimacy of the relationship. NSA/arm's length relationships tend to result in underwear remaining in place a lot of the time. The more intimate and close the relationship the quicker the underwear is removed!