DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

I haven't read all the replies to your update, but you should not have to explain in such detail to someone that his violent behaviour is abusive.
And although you could give him the benefit of the doubt, make sure he works on himself away from you. You should be and feel safe and not walking on eggshells.
Even if he realises this behaviour is abusive, I worry that he'll just find other ways of abusing you, more subtle and more difficult to get away from.
You are about to get married and possibly having children.

This is not someone you want to trust your future with!

Sapphire you're wasting your time writing this down for him. Really you are. My ex ignored emails like this. He did eventually go to a psychotherapist after I'd found the details of a decent one for him and left him. It lasted one session before she a annoyed him by answering the phone in his presence.

Someone above mentioned bpd. There may be something in that, but it is a very difficult diagnosis and almost impossible to treat - requires real willingness to do so.

By all means write it down. I found it useful if only as a timed, dated record of each incident. I eventually wrote emails to my parents/best mate each and every time he he threw a wobbly. These days, although quite shocking, am amused at his ridiculousness.

Please don't feel you've invested so much in the relationship that your only path is sticking with it and trying to fix him. There is nothing shameful about walking away from abusive behaviour. And you will never be able to fix him.

I once wrote a long letter to my husband about problems we had, because I could not reach to him by talking. It was fairly long, and written in a way to consider his feelings and reassure him that he was loved.
He glanced at it and he tore it up.
I should have left him there and then, but I kept the pieces to remind me of it. They were in my drawer for years.
He is now an ex and it ended in DV. :(

You are already in the middle of DV. There is no excuse and your safety and of your unborn children are paramount.

I am still so worried for you as I can see you going back and wasting the next 20 years with this bully.

You are scared to talk to him. THAT is enough to leave never mind all the other stuff he has put you through.

OP I agree with the others. The letter is a desire to make him see he is being unreasonable and I imagine you hope that he will see things from a new perspective and he will change.

The problem is, you can't make him change. He might be able to change his behaviour, but it's so ingrained, it would take years of therapy.

He blames you, says you made him act like that. Do you see how far from reasonable he is?

Think how difficult you're finding it to consider walking away now. Imagine how hard it would be if you were financially dependent on him with a newborn. Imagine your children terrified as he rips off his clothes and screams, holding them or you down.

I'm glad you've seen that this is abusive, but you need to think very very carefully about what kind of future you want.

Another thing, I found that once I stopped becoming upset at the behaviour and distanced myself from it (basically once I'd actually decided to leave and was resolutely hardened), things miraculously improved. Of course by then it was too late.

I'd challenge him with 'You look utterly ridiculous' when he was doing the head slapping wall banging routine.

Or 'Sort yourself out' during the ranting/pacing bit (and actually walk off.

I'd leave the house/car when he kicked off and refuse to answer my phone.

Laugh at him and tell him he's being pathetic.

When you do the above rather than cry and appear frightened and upset it means he's lost his mechanism of control over you. Just be careful in case it has the effect of him ramping up the violence though.

Honestly op, don't engage with his histrionics and just make plans to leave. I spent seven years of my twenties with a 'man' like that. They don't change. My dd (7) takes a pragmatic approach on her monthly contact - when he starts the headbanging and kicking of inanimate objects, she just rolls her eyes, goes and sits somewhere else and waits for him to finish. She shouldn't have to be exposed to this I know, but the fact that she can tell us about it and had my wonderful, calm, kind, patient dh as a model for how a normal man behaves means that hopefully she'll avoid being drawn into the drama.

Agree with the others most of it is a waste of time.

He has prevented you leaving before. He says it is outside his control. He accepts no responsibility doesn't think he has done anything wrong so will not change.

Hi OP,

Can you stay with your friend for an extra night? Then just keep extending it. Take one day at a time.

Dont put up with any sort of abuse from this person. And dont accept him blaming you. You know you are not doing anything wrong.

Id also advise you to be open and honest to your friends and family as to what is happening. Dont be ashamed, you are not to blame for his behaviour.

Id also advise against marrying and having children with him. You dont want your children to witness or be on the end of this behaviour. To be honest, Id see no future in this relationship. Dont let him take another day. You need to spread your wings and fly away.

he'd hit the roof ? Why are you doing this then? You are scared of him. Stay away!

Let him stew/think about it for a few days, then discuss, in a public place or with witnesses with you, if you want to. But DO NOT go back to him.

I wouldn't try to engage him in what he needs to do to make it work if I were you OP, I'd just end it. You can do a lot better than him

You can't help him. Even if you were a therapist you still couldn't help him because you are emotionally involved. Writing that letter will do exactly what pp's have said so write it for yourself and keep it but do not let him see it.

Everyone who has said he will not change is right. The only thing that will make a difference is if he thinks he has a problem and he seeks out and immerses himself in the help of professionals.

I wonder if the reason you feel reluctant to walk away is the years you see invested in this relationship? If so, think about your life expectancy and work out how many more years you are willing to accept this and worse treatment.

And do you want to have children? My mother stayed in a violent marriage for 40 years and I feel that she failed me and my siblings by not protecting us from our father. I went NC before she died and delayed having my own DCs until both my parents had passed. Is that the kind of relationship you envisage when you think about getting married and having DCs?

OP this must be really scary for you - all the people on here saying all the stuff that you don't want to hear on top of all the grief you are getting from him.

Just keep posting. No matter what you do, no matter what happens, keep posting. Mumsnet is pretty good for not saying 'I told you so' if you do stay with him but need support, and just having people telling you that it is not normal, it is not a panic attack, it is not your fault is a massive life line even if not what you are wanting to hear.

Take care of yourself.

Thank you.
Feeling really teraful still and it's 36 hours later. Can't concentrate on anything.
It's so hard because the person I really want to hug me and say everything will be ok is HIM. I feel like our relationship is really good apart from this. I felt on top of the world before this and like things were going better than ever, and now i am questioning everything.
He's made an appointment for us to go to Relate tomorrow. From advice from staff at Relate and the DV helpline I know I need to manage this very carefully and make sure I disclose in the initial session. They will then say they cannot see us together and we will not go down the route of them exploring how I could be less controlling (or whatever else he says I am).
I am going to give him the letter with the 4 points on but number 1 rephrased as an ultimatum - to go to the GP and work hard at this, get proper help, tell them what's really happening rather than describing it as a panic attack. I have told him in the letter that I will leave him and cancel the wedding if he cannot do this. I desperately don't want it to come to that, it would break my heart.

I think you are taking steps in the right direction, and taking on advice so that's good.
I don't think your letter will help and I sincerely hope you get a decent counsellor who can put a stop to the session in a boundaried and helpful way.
I know you can't persuade him not to be abusive but I also know you aren't ready to end it yet so take the steps you feel you need to, keep posting here and just be careful.

In line with the excellent advice from others - please don't give him the letter, Sapphire. You'd just be providing him with more opportunity to manipulate you. A few days apart might help you see your situation as we do.

Oh Sapphire- I really hope you listen to everyone here. As much as it might break your heart to cancel the wedding it's what needs to happen. You cannot make him change, a letter detailing what happened isn't going to mean squat to him. He was there! He knows what happened.

My first marriage was very much like this- only we had a child together! I put up with it for the sake of our child until the night he hit me while I was holding my 1 yr old. That was when it was over. It took me a month of planning and preparing but I did it. I left and took our son.

He begged us to come home.. things would change, he missed me, go to counseling the whole 9 yards. Only when he realized I wouldn't he was back to his old abusive self. He's not seen his child for 10 yrs and hasn't given us a drop of child support. I have saved my boy from a live of watching his abusive father and turning out to be like him. Hard, but watching my boy grow into a lovely sensitive lad and finding a great man worth being his father and role model is all worth it.

It sounds like you have people who love you and willing to help you. Take the help. Stay out and away from him. You deserve so much better and he deserves a chance to get himself together for him, not for you.

I feel really bad about the relate thingy, can you have a strategic tummy bug and not go?

If you can't get out of it, I suggest that when you go have a written list of everything that happened in the last incident, including that it has happened before and that it seems to be escalating. Insist as much as you can that it is read first as it is the reason you are attending relate and it is the starting point.

Please, please, please have someone waiting outside for you and do not go home with him. Can you imagine his reaction of having someone listen to you and not him? It sounds like he would be incandescent. You would really get some punishment if you allowed yourself to be alone with him after that!

Are you giving him the letter as you don't think he will listen to you? Unless there is something wrong with his hearing, there is not likely to be much difference.

Sending gentle hugs, because I think you need them.

I don't think I can bear to cancel the wedding or break up with him. I have given people on here an insight to the bad bit but I feel the rest of our relationship is great. I know even with a tiny bit of bad though, that is not good enough.

Thank you all for your advice but I don't understand why everyone is saying don't give him the letter? Surely an ultimatum to get help from the GP is good?

Sapphire the way things are you cannot marry this man. These 'attacks' of his started once you moved in together? How did he behave before you were living together?

Many people on this thread sharing some sad but helpful stories. Please listen to what they have to say.

It's great that there is an attempt to get counselling but there is nothing that you're doing that is wrong. He is the one that needs help, not you.

Please, please don't give him the letter. Everything you have written will be twisted and somehow be your fault.

NO, no, no to the letter.

You say you said :

when you have behaved like this previously we agreed that you would not show any ‘menacing behaviour’ (your description of it) towards me. I need you to keep that promise.

He has NOT kept that promise. You MUST follow through now.

If you must write a letter, try this:

"You have physically abused me again.

When you behaved like this previously we agreed that you would not show any 'menacing behaviour' towards me.

You have broken that promise.

You have left me with no choice but to live elsewhere and postpone our wedding until you have proven to me that you will never abuse me again. This will likely take several months."

Unless he is a moron with no access to the internet, he can easily find out everything you state in points 1-3. You found it out because you care about his behaviour. If he cares about his behaviour he can find it out for himself in one evening with Google. He is probably aware of the existence of GPs and that they can help with medical and psychiatric problems. You don't need to tell him.

Read up on co-dependency and don't live it!

Sapphire - have you ever been in a high pressure sales meeting? The salesmen are trained to see an objection and attack it, work around it, explain it away and get the deal closed (married to one who is actually very reasonable). Your abuser is going to seize on any loophole, any advantage, twist it round and use it to beat you with. Any weakness shown in it will be used. If you are being sold to, never ever explain.

He needs to understand what he did was wrong, and any solution needs to come from him. If it doesn't come from him it won't work. The stress management course didn't stop the recent attack on you (it was an attack). In his eyes it wasn't meant to. It was meant to make sure that you didn't leave.

Why don't you postpone the wedding. If it all works out then you can go ahead later.

Please listen to the domestic violence team. This really is that serious.

lots of hugs

I just don't know if I can bear to do that. I desperately want him to change things and am hoping that if I get him to go to the GP that will happen. Perhaps Relate is a good start - for them to recognise the abuse and advise him of this too, or a wake up call that the problem is him not me. I just want everything to be ok. I know I have made him out to be a complete monster on here but everything other than this aspect is great and I am really happy with him, I know that sounds ridiculous.