DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

I would be so so upset to break the news to everyone that we were postponing the wedding. Everything is booked including flights, honeymoon, absolutely everything. I know this sounds utterly ridiculous as a reason but I am just HOPING we can sort this and then it'd be stupid to call it all off. I can't bear to tell everyone I know, it's all just too awful.

'I don't think I can bear to cancel the wedding or break up with him.'

My heart bleeds for you but I hope to GOD that you do. Otherwise - well, to learn the script for your life (and that of your poor children), just read a few of the threads on here.

They usually start: 'Things were never 100% right, he's always been a drinker/gambler/unfaithful/prone to violent rages, but I loved him and I believe still that he loves me and he promised so many times, in tears, that he could change/that it was my fault too/that he was ill, not violent...'

Read the threads. There are literally hundreds of them. They all loved their man, just as you do.

YOUR problem IS you. You cannot change him. You can only change your reaction to him. You seem unwilling to do that. Get yourself to your own individual counselling!

Btw, you are right, he is great except when he abuses you, does sound ridiculous. Because it is and you know it is.

What if instead of an ultimatum I ask HIM what he's going to do. His number 1 answer will be we go to Relate. Could I suggest GP too? I am torn how to present an ultimatum to him without getting caught out. I was to do everything I can to get him to put measures in place to work at this. I desperately don't want to call things off or for my life to fall apart as it feels like it is.

It's ok. Take your time. Your embedded emotions are just coming up to the surface, and this is why we asked you to be with a friend so that you do not feel alone in this situation right now.

It does not matter about the letter. He is possibly also as confused too. What he needs is clarity also, and I am sure that the time apart also allow him to clear his mind too. But it also does not mean that it can take a simple 24 or a 36 hours to turn things around. It does not work like that. It has become such a bad habit already. The thing is that, whether this is a panic attack or not is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Don't write the conditional clause of "you need to change or else I will cancel the wedding". This is and can appear as an emotional blackmail. I know that you want it to be such a way, but what if he cannot do it ? What will you do then ? You just need to focus on getting yourself back to a happier place first.

I desperately don't want it to come to that, it would break my heart.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "If you love someone, then let them go. If they are meant to be with you, then they will come back." This phrase means, we cannot want another to be other than anything but themselves. If they have found themselves and can be true to themselves while they are with us, they will want to return to us on their own accord. If we do not let them to find freedom and their true self, no matter what we do, or say, we will suppress the kind of person that they are. You need to let him go and see if he can figure out his own part in the situation.

A man that makes your heart joyful and laugh is the right man. The man that makes your heart aches, and it suffers is not the right man. A lot of people say that a man who can make a woman laugh is indeed a good man. He needs to be away from you to figure out what he needs to make it to be with a woman. Because whatever it is that he thinks he is doing, it truly is not cutting it. No.

It will be worse to tell everyone about the divorce.
And the financial loss and the solicitor fees (although you'll probably be entitled to legal aid because of the DV).

If you are like this now, imagine when you have a joint house, children to consider and so on.

Now is the time.

Sapphire,

You are clutching at straws here and you're also kidding yourself that everything else is great other than this. His behaviours overshadow all the supposed good bits. Also abusers are not nasty all the time; they can be nice sometimes but the nice/nasty is a continuous cycle.

If you want everything to be okay you are going to have to separate from this man. You chose the wrong man here to have a relationship but that is no reflection on you. You also come across in your posts as being codependent (basically putting his needs above all else including your own) and you learnt that from somewhere as well, perhaps your own parents.

Changing even one aspect of your own behaviour is hard enough, asking/begging enough person to change theirs as you are now is an exercise in futility. This is no reflection on you but you need to stop trying to rescue and or save him now otherwise you will be further dragged down with him. Enough is enough.

Do not waste any more of your precious time on this individual.

The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is NONE.

I know you say that the rest of the relationship is good.. However look at it this way:

You have a really nice cup of coffee but there is just a drop of poison or maybe to be less dramatic.. A drop of poo. It's just a drop. You could drink it and survive. It's just not very nice. You still want to drink it?

What you are describing is DV. It is. Great that 95% of the time things are lovely but is it worth living with the 5% that's so bad you are literally in fear of your partner? He needs to get help on his own. Not because you give him the ultimatum. If you are that dead set on sticking it out- at least separate until he's gotten himself together. For your safety.

You can meet him and ask him what he wants to say. Then decide.
He knows you feel you have a lot to lose right now and don't want to break up with him. My guess is that he'll try to blame you, offer token suggestions of how you two can forget about it and possibly joint counselling. Neither is a good answer.
He should offer to postpone the wedding and work on himself while you are safe.

Safety should be the word in your mind all the time.

Sapphire you deserve so much more than him. I don't know if you have already mentioned this, but how old are you? I ask this because I get the impression you are reasonably young - you could easily meet someone else, someone perfect who will treat you in the way that you deserve to be treated, someone who you have a great relationship with in ALL aspects and without any bad bits at all. A half life, treading on egg shells, waiting for the next blow up, is no life at all. Be kind to yourself, stop thinking about him and his needs and think about you and your needs. You need to have a life free from being scared, free from waiting for him to hit the roof, free from the bad bits. Don't go back to him. He will NEVER EVER change. The only thing that will change is the level of abuse - it WILL get worse! How long before he hits you? How long before he puts you in hospital? How long before you become another statistic? You've already taken the hardest step - leaving - Don't go back! Leave him permanently and go on to meet a wonderful man, marry him and have a fantastic and happy life. You deserve it.

It may be hard to tell people about cancelling the wedding but it'll be a hell of a lot harder telling them about your re-injured leg/black eye/dislocated shoulder/broken fingers.

Sapphire, by writing the letter you are trying to regain control. You can't ever win at control games with an abuser, because control is their raison d'etre and they will always be prepared to go to further lengths than you to stay on top. He might be able to keep a lid on his urge to control long enough to lull you into a sense of safety until you are married/pregnant, but sooner or later the control will come out again.

Imagine being pregnant or having a newborn and walking on eggshells for fear of setting him off. (That is the most common time for abuse to begin in a relationship, when you are at your most vulnerable).

Imagine raising children in an atmosphere of fear, where they watch you and then act out the abuser/abused roles in their own adult relationships.

Of course lots of abusers are really nice a lot of the time. If they weren't, nobody would get into an abusive relationship in the first place, would they? But it doesn't make up for the abuse.

If you think cancelling a wedding is hard, think how hard and humiliating it would be to leave once you had children, once your lives were totally entwined together. Think what it would be like having to explain to people that you knew he was abusive since before you married, but you went ahead with it anyway. Think what it would be like if the first thing anyone knows of this is when you get seriously physically injured, or if SS intervene to take your children out of an abusive household. Cancelling a wedding doesn't reflect on you in any way. This is all down to him.

You have to remember in this that he is not your friend. He doesn't see you in that way. He sees you as a possession with no right to have needs or wants of your own.

Sillylass, that is a very compassionate post.

Op, based on statistics, there is a strong likelihood that this abuse will get worse once you have got married.

I know it's embarrassing to postpone or cancel the wedding. But you can't live with abuse out of embarrassment - honestly, it's a terrible reason.

You say it would be hard to tell others if you cancel the wedding, but if any one of them could see his performance, they would understand completely.

SmashleyHop - that is such a powerful metaphor.

Sapphire - please think about Smashley's cup of coffee-with-a-drop-of-poo, and ask yourself,if the cup,of coffee is really good enough to be worth drinking that drop of poo. I have had some wonderful cups of coffee, but none good enough to make it worth drinking poo.

And bear in mind that, in all likelihood, the drop of poo in the coffee of your relationship is going to grow. If you think the 5% of bad isn't sufficient to justify calling off the marriage, you need to consider what percentage of poo would be worth divorcing over. I suspect, once married, it would take a much higher percentage of poo to push you to deal with unravelling the emotional, financial and practical commitments of a marriage.

Oh Sapphire.

He's a fully grown man who has paddies like a toddler and blames you for them.

You can't argue someone out of that. You are not in control of this. HE is. You've already MADE him promise not to do this again, and he did it again.

It's over love. If you go back into the fray and just make him promise again not to hurt or threaten you, what do you think you'd be saying to him? You'd be saying "this is how it's going to go: you're going to abuse me and all you have to do to make amends is promise not to do it again. but you can do it again, don't worry. i'll always take you back. you just have to say the right words."

You can't have children with this man. Never. You can't have pets, he'll use them against you eventually.

PLEASE love, please just think this through. You want to marry someone who is desperately unsuitable for marriage, who is scary and abusive and will not keep very simple promises not to assault and frighten you.

ALL abusers are nice sometimes. ALL of them have good points, are loving and tender and charming, even most of the time. But they're still abusive, scary, unstable and untrustworthy. If you marry him, you will live in constant fear of this. If you have children with him they will be irreparably damaged. You'll be alone with him, isolated and embarrassed, all your life.

This is not OK and it never will be. Please please please just walk away.

I love my DH and there is no dv etc in my relationship byt when we have had a new baby and he did not pull his weight and I had it out with him to the point of saying I felt like a single parent and I was on the edge of leaving I was not afraid to say anything.

Put yourself in the situation of married, no sleep so utter exhaustion and having to do everything yourself and also give him attention instead of the baby because you are scared of him doing the aggressive behaviour to you or your child.

It's hard enough with a good relationship - what if he lost control with a baby or tantrumming toddler?

"Could I suggest GP too? I am torn how to present an ultimatum to him without getting caught out. I was to do everything I can to get him to put measures in place to work at this. I desperately don't want to call things off or for my life to fall apart as it feels like it is."

What do you mean by caught out?

Sapphire - no matter what measures you put in place, you can not help this man! Only he can help himself. If he genuinely wanted to change he'd be seeking help from his GP, not expecting you to sort it out for him.

I know you don't want to postpone your wedding - it must be a heartbreaking thought - but if you do your life will not fall apart. It will be painful, but you sound like a strong person, you will cope. If you do marry him your life will fall apart, and so will the lives of any children you have.

Please don't rush into anything, spend some time away from him and think about what you really want. I have a feeling that with a bit of breathing space it won't be this man. In fact, I go as far as to say that once you get used to not walking on eggshells and 'mothering' a grown man you'll actually find the prospect of marriage to him somewhat less appealing.

This thread has been such a wake up call - 244 messages from people all saying the same things. I have said I will meet him tonight, and that I will go to Relate tomorrow with him. I feel sick and panicky about calling it off tonight. I wonder if I should wait until the Relate session? My head is just spinning, I can't believe I am considering ending the relationship. I love him so much, I can't help feeling sorry for him at the thought of breaking up with him.

"ALL abusers are nice sometimes. ALL of them have good points, are loving and tender and charming, even most of the time. But they're still abusive, scary, unstable and untrustworthy. "

^ This is very true. If abusers displayed their true colours all the time no one would ever want to get involved with them.

I just don't know if I can bear to do that. I desperately want him to change things and am hoping that if I get him to go to the GP that will happen. Perhaps Relate is a good start - for them to recognise the abuse and advise him of this too, or a wake up call that the problem is him not me. I just want everything to be ok. I know I have made him out to be a complete monster on here but everything other than this aspect is great and I am really happy with him, I know that sounds ridiculous.

If you let go, you will find the strength. You maybe stronger than you think and realise. Listen to your own gut instinct. Not listening to your head, but listen to your heart. You told us here that you cried. That you were teary. This your heart trying to tell you something is wrong. Identify those emotions and what it means to you. Whether they are sentimental feelings only or that it is just sadness at a loss. Because with the right man, you will feel JOYFUL. Like your heart will be about to burst.

What if he does not want to change ? We told you that he already hinted at you for not taking him seriously that he said he may not be able to do what you asked of him. Did you accepted this ? But you still went and wrote that letter? But ask yourself "why" you did that. Because you should not. He showed you a red flag. You ignored him and repeated the same mistake that you did before. Then he showed you the red flag again. Then you did the same again.. Do you see what we are seeing here now ?? Take today off, and wipe everything clear, and re-read this thread again for yourself. Try to understand where we are coming from. Cos you are also embedded into this bad pattern that you have with him. This cycle needs to break. That is why we asked you to move and stay with a friend as a first step to break this cycle.

I will be honest now, the problem is BOTH of you. It is not just him and him alone, (even though the ladies here have been kind and tried to protect your heart here) but it is also you, responding back in the exact same way as before to him. I know that a lot of ladies here are trying to protect your heart here, but you need to think clearly and see the patterns that are forming. For your own sake. You may not have intentionally did it deliberately to hurt him, but there is a part of both of your interaction that he feeds off, and this cycle continues and continues. Just take a step backwards. Then re-read this thread. Clear your mind.

If he wants to go to the GP then he will go himself. Not because you want him to go. At the moment, he does not even know what he did wrong. He just know he did wrong and he apologises for it. But you also do not realised that he is a grown man, and he can indeed be okay, but it has to be on his terms, and not on your terms. At the moment you keep asking him to please you. "Do this and I will be happy." "Do that, and I will be okay, and things will be okay (from my eyes)." But he does not want to. There is a part of him that rejects it, and rebels against what you ask of him. (For some odd reason.) Don't you realise that ?

The ladies here are a tad wiser than you think we are. We are not giving you the advice based on that one single bad comment, and we have indeed taken into consideration the buildup. The number of years, and when things happened, and how often, and how you also now respond back to us, and your feelings and attachment towards him still even though he had harmed you. And you also do not see him for him as well. You've also checked out of your own relationship. Cos you do not see him as a person in his own right. It reads to us that you do not respect him, and his role in the relationship as well. Most women in a relationship will politely "ask" for help, and not "demand" for help and conditions. This is emotional blackmail, and this is why we asked you not to provoke him further by sending this kind of letter towards him !

Does he feel sorry for you?

Hugs

My suggestions (just suggestions)

Write everything down you want to say - and stick to it. Do not change anything. Do not waver. Do not compromise. If you are asked to commit to anything ask for time to consider. If he really cared about you then he would allow you time. This is a tough ask, but it means that it is harder for him to twist things so that you find yourself taking all the blame and agreeing to do whatever it takes to make him happy.

Try and get as much space for yourself as you can.

Know and believe that you are allowed to change your mind. If you agree to something you are allowed to say, 'actually, it doesn't work for me, I'm not going to do it after all.'

Be kind to yourself.

Keep posting.

Seriously - as you are worried about how upset he is and would be at the thought of splitting, please consider how much he worried about your fear and distress when he wouldn't let you leave the room. I suggest you give him the same amount of concern.

More hugs.

Rarely is there full agreement on these relationship threads but there is full agreement on this one and that should tell you a great deal.

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

I do not think he feels sorry for you at all, I do not think he feels anything for you other than feeling you are inferior to him.

You can still change your mind re meeting him tonight and the Relate session tomorrow you know. Say no, you have decided not to meet him after all, the relationship is over. Both a face to face meeting and Relate are extremely bad ideas and will only serve to make you feel a damn sight worse than you already do. If you're having to go to Relate already prior to a wedding then your relationship is in very serious trouble.

You don't love him so much as wanting to rescue and or save him from his own self. That is his issue alone though, you were not put on this earth to rescue and or save others from themselves. Being a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship are two approaches that simply do not work. He has abused you more than enough and he does not at heart think he has or is doing anything wrong with regards to you here.