DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

Sapphire - you are very brave. I was going to say that the panic attack and mental health issues are red herrings. It doesn't matter what it's called or what problems the person has, you should never be treated like how you described in your OP.

The only advice I have is to ask what you would say to your daughter, mother or friend who lived like this, then take that advice yourself. It is no way to live. It's hard because you have invested a nber of years in this person, but it's better to cut your losses now before it's too late.

Good luck!

And panic attacks don't "just happen" they can seem to come on suddenly as mine do to the casual onlooker, or they can unfold slowly, but they are triggered by something and it's not hearing a person you claim to love refusing to be bullied by you.

I echo the other posters. These aren't panic attacks.

This man is a nasty, manipulative bully. Please - do yourself a favour and leave him. Xx

I suspect he will play the 'I love you soooooooo much, I can't help myself, I'm sooooooooooo afraid of losing you....' That is not love, that is control.

Another thing that jumped out at me from your OP ; I am [...] a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another. Hmm. What do you think you might say to him? That in fact you are frightened of him? Or he is controlling and abusive? What would he say to you?

There is obviously something in your relationship that you do not want brought into the light. Why? Why are you in this relationship if it is not what you want?

I hope you managed to share your problem with your friend.
I hope you managed to actually get away for the night.
I know you won't have slept much after all the revelations on this thread.
But I do hope you take on board all the good advice.
Don't meet him until YOU are good and ready.
He doesn't get to control you anymore. Time to take control back.
Well done.

Gosh. I read some of this last night just after I'd posted about my own experiences with an abusive partner who I'd decided to leave. Mine self-diagnosed with Borderline Personality but (apart from any physical abuse towards me) could be the same person as yours! The sudden explosions that seem to come from nowhere. The self-abuse in my/my kids' presence, ripping clothes off, threats and accusations, smashing doors. Having read this, kept me awake all night thinking about it. I wasn't able to read all the way through so don't know if anyone mentioned BPD but it might be worth looking into as it could ring some bells - especially the walking on eggshells bit.
I have put up with this for a good three years and although things are much better now, the fear is still there, more than 6 months since the last outburst. I don't know if it will ever go away.
Good luck with the moves you're making and I really hope that you find peace.

Thank you everyone for your messages. He was extremely shocked and panicked when I told him on the phone I was going to my friend's overnight. I spent the whole night wondering if I should go back, trying not to feel sorry for him etc. I am dreading the conversation tonight as I feel I've made a huge statement by going away.

I was thinking of writing out my experience of the situation on Sunday night (like the explanation I started this thread with). I was also thinking of giving him the following 4 points I need him to commit to. I am dreading doing this, I think he's going to hit the roof. What do you think?:

1.Accept that your behaviour towards me on Sunday night was abusive.

Physical abuse does not have to involve hitting. By holding onto my legs and preventing me from leaving the room you were being abusive. When you ignored my repeated requests to let me go, I resorted to pinching you and hitting you to try to escape. The domestic violence helpline I spoke to has told me this is ‘reasonable force’ and the law would find your actions to be abusive and mine to be in self defence.

If you feel that your behaviour was acceptable, ask yourself this; if a Police Officer had been in my place, with you physically restraining them and preventing them from leaving the room, would there have been any repercussions for your actions; would they have been considered unacceptable and have had a consequence?

What would you think of the situation if it were one of your sisters with their boyfriend, would you think he was treating her fairly?

2.Accept responsibility for your actions - don’t blame it on a panic attack

As an adult you have control over your actions and can choose not to behave in an abusive way - such as restraining me, preventing me from leaving the room, throwing yourself around the room, writhing on the floor, ripping your clothes off in anger, banging your head on the floor, screaming at me etc.

You may be feeling out of control and panicked when you behave like this, however your actions are not a panic attack and it is unacceptable to blame it on this; your behaviour is your choice. The following are panic attack symptoms and do not include any abusive / aggressive behaviour towards others:
• a sensation that your heart is beating irregularly (palpitations)
• sweating
• trembling
• hot flushes
• chills
• shortness of breath
• a choking sensation
• chest pain
• nausea
• dizziness
• feeling faint
• numbness, or pins and needles
• dry mouth
• a need to go to the toilet
• ringing in your ears

• a feeling of dread, or a fear of dying
• a churning stomach
• a tingling sensation in fingers
• shivering
• shaking

3.Promise you will never again be physically abusive

You held my legs so I couldn’t move, pinned me down on the bed, and trapped me in the room against my will. You continued this despite the fact that I:

• Made my frequent attempts to escape from you
• Made repeated requests for you to let go of me
• Told you that you were hurting my knee
• Told you that you were scaring me

I was not doing anything wrong. I was trying to calmly end a conversation and get ready for bed.

You have told me that such behaviour cannot be prevented, it just happens. You also made an analogy between my bike accident and the behaviour – saying these things sometimes just happen; there’s nothing you can do to control it. It is not acceptable to have a relationship based on the assumption that abuse is unpreventable and could happen. The fact you have said this is extremely concerning to me and I am going to be frank: I will not marry someone who cannot guarantee they will never be abusive or violent towards me.

This is not just about the physical actions: when you have behaved like this previously we agreed that you would not show any ‘menacing behaviour’ (your description of it) towards me. I need you to keep that promise.

4.Go to the GP and get professional help for the anger and abusive behaviour you have displayed towards me.

Relate is for couples to have counselling about problems they share in their relationship, i.e. situations where they both need to modify their behaviour. The problem here is caused solely by you. Even if you would rather I didn’t leave the room, the way you behave or respond to the situation is your responsibility, and what you did was not at all acceptable.

I sincerely think you need to go to the GP and get some help with this. I need a guarantee from you that you are going to address this problem, not just say sorry and you’ll try not to let it happen again. I need to know you are taking active steps to make a change. I know it is not a quick fix or an instant solution, but knowing that you understand this needs to change, and that you are getting help to work on it will help me to feel I can safely stay in our relationship.

the noly point to make to him is number 4.
the rest he will argue, make excuses, make promises.

keep it short and to the point.

you will be separated for now.
the only way forward for his own sake is point 4.

4.Go to the GP and get professional help

Hugs

You are going to have lots of people shouting 'Nooooo!!!!!' now, but while they are likely to be direct, it is well meant. Please listen.

He managed to put his awful behaviour on hold for a bit before when he thought you would leave and he did the stress management course. However he went back to it, and it is getting worse.

I don't see if he did that last time it will do anything more this time. He will probably make every promise under the sun, cool off for a bit and then he will go back to his behaviours. His abuse gets him what he wants - you paying attention to him.

Others with more knowledge will come back and advise, but my instinct is that if you look like you will get away then he has no reason to not hurt you and every reason to punish you. I think if you go back he will punish you in some way.

My suggestion is call off the wedding, stay somewhere else while he gets help and until you are really, really, really sure only meet him with witnesses and/or in a public place.

Just, no, love

You cannot educate an abuser that they are abusive. You are wasting your time, and risking your own mental health (as well as physical safety)

I can see you are determined to try and change him. It won't work

I can also see you are on this path of destruction and what we are saying to you is going to have very little impact.

You went and stayed with a friend for a night. And yet..you are frightened of the "huge impact" of this totally justifiable reaction to hs abuse of you.

he won't "get it" love, no matter how many different ways you try to show him...why would he ?

I suggest you phone the Domestic abuse phone line again and get more advice.

I think you need to stay away from him. For two reasons 1) he would need to really prove a long term change before you are in any way safe with him, you don't live with people that you are unsafe with.
2)For him to change he will need to get away from potential triggers. To be honest you are a trigger, he has been able to abuse you, your presence will mean he is more likely to "drift" back into abuse.

But to be honest - he may try to fake he is changing, and how much he fakes or gives in to your demands depends on how much he thinks you are checking up (we have had exHs here who have faked attending months of "anger management"). However if the actions to change his behaviour do not come from him - his behaviour will not change long term You cannot change this.
The other alternative is that he will become violent - when you dare to "tell him what to do" or have a mind of your own.

Personally I think the best thing you can do is say nothing. At all. Keep quite and listen and watch and stop fixing and telling.

Listen to what he has to say. I suspect it will be "me me me / minimising/ but you did x "

Then go away and think.

Life is hard enough as is it just getting through jobs, babies, inevitable crisis - don't shackle yourself to someone who makes it harder.

When a person shows you who they are, believe them.

Keep quiet obvs - sorry for typos.

you seem to be offering him a way back in. telling him what you need form him to make it work.
step back. it WONT work unless he follows thru on point 4.

even then it wont work.
change takes years if so ingrained.

he can make loads of promises you will be back in til the next incident which might leave you harmed or worse -even by "accident" - a physical swipe or hold gone wrong...

honestly talking and going on with options wont work with these people, be blunt and to the point and repeat using broken record technique no negotiation -

4.Go to the GP and get professional help

he is calling them panic attacks - so let him get a professional diagnosis and medication/therapy.

you simply cannot save or fix him by anything you do or don't do.

I think you need to spend longer away for him to truly reflect and you to get your head together, rest and feel strong enough to deal with it. There is no harm in suggesting he goes to the gp in this time before your return.
I went for a week (to start with) and literally just slept that entire time. I was mentally exhausted (used to wait until bed time for a ruck too) and physically.
Good luck, you are doing so well. Don't forget if he gets help it's helping him as well as yourself. His behaviour is not healthy for either of you

If you think he is going to hit the roof then you already know he isn't going to accept any of the points on your list and will continue to state it is all you. However it may be that even knowing this you feel you need to do it to satisfy in your own mind that you have pointed out his behaviour as plainly as you can and can do no more.

If you want to issue conditions issue them for results not promises, state he has to have sought help and be making progress.

Do not go alone. Either take someone with you who can either stay there or wait in another room that would be within ear shot of raised voices, or arrange to have someone meet you at a set time and make it clear they will come looking if you don't meet and will ring the police if you are uncontactable.

For my own part I would not bother with the meeting and would stay away. You already know what the reaction will be. You know he can control himself in front of others and just chooses to be like this with you. Therefore he is using it as a tool to get his way.

He is escalating, duration between events is shortening and the physicality has intensified.

He blames you and refuses to see his part in any of this.

It is abusive.

You know that's not a panic attack but uncontrolled rage more akin to a toddler tantrum. Incidentally toddlers only react this way when they too have completely lost control of themselves.

I think, with the greatest respect, it's a mistake to treat him as a reasonable person that simply doesn't realise what he's doing rather than being a deliberately manipulative and abusive individual. As a result you think that if he understands better and acknowledges the implications of his behaviour then the scales will fall from his eyes and he will be transformed. You then give him the opportunity to promise to change and get some help.... which is all well and good but which I am afraid puts you at a massive risk if you are planning to still be around him while it happens.

If you really want to go this route please do it from a place of safety and do not go back to him. Make your return to the relationship conditional on him getting all of the help, making the promises and showing a real commitment to change for several months. This will give you some real time to think about what you want from life and experience the calm of not living on eggshells. You are not obliged to stay by his side.

the best thing you can do is stay away for a few weeks.
tell him " I will be away now and out of contact until July. please don't contact me. You can go talk to the GP"

and follow through.
give yourself time to really think away from him.
and talk thru with people who have experience.

he will rant, rave, turn up at your friend (call police) get aggressive, cry...
ignore

You need spend a month apart - no contact, no meetings. A decent break to clear your head.

You also seem quite co-dependent - wanting to fix him & solve this. You can't. It's not fair on either of you actually and very unhealthy to put your energy into someone else's problems and to give them a list of rules so life is fixed. It just shouldn't work this way.

Take a break. Like any addictive set of circumstances - relationships, dramas etc, the best thing to do is separate for a while.

If he is the person you hope he is he'll sort himself out in that time.

Do you think his behaviour is abusive?

Because if you do, that's really all you need to know, and to act upon. It doesn't matter whether or not he agrees with you. There isn't really a negotiation to be had in an abusive situation, I feel.

If you do have the meeting (I hope you don't), I rather agree you should say little, and promise nothing. Listen to what he says, then reflect on it and respond later.

Sapphire, glad you're OK.

The sad truth is that it's almost impossible for men like this to change, and you'll be putting yourself in great danger if you resume the relationship. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, or next week, but sometime eventually you won't be able to manage him and he'll slip back into being emotionally abusive, probably physically abusive given the past history here.

Because that's what you're still trying to do here. By giving him this sort of letter you're trying to manage his behaviour instead of having him seeking help for himself - and you're making it more dangerous for yourself, because he'll realise that you've finally figured his abuse out and seen it for what it is. And he'll realise you've been talking to other people about it. The loss of control over you will enrage him.

Anger is not his problem however. His problem is that he has a very deep-seated need to totally control women, because he sees them as inferior beings without needs of their own. He would need to do years and years of heavy duty therapy in a specialist abusers program to break this totally ingrained belief - not anger management, or relationships counselling. And it would most certainly not be safe for you to be in a relationship with him while he was doing this - the success rate of these programs is very low anyway.

Given that as pps have said the intensity of these cycles of abuse is increasing and the physicality is increasing, he is very dangerous indeed and you can expect further physical attacks if you stay.

For God's sake don't confront him on this when you are alone.

Sapphire, you are being way too rational about this and are looking to fix it.

Try thinking about if it was your daughter or sister, what would you advise....

Sometimes you have to accept that you are just not good together, however much you love him. with his reactions like this, you need to leave.

I spent the whole night wondering if I should go back, trying not to feel sorry for him etc. I am dreading the conversation tonight as I feel I've made a huge statement by going away.
It is perfectly natural to ponder continually and wondering "what", or "why", or "what ifs" now that you are away from him. But these thoughts will go away eventually. What the ladies here are saying that, these thoughts and you fearing for him should not exist to this great extent. He is a grown man, and he can indeed take care of himself. You do not need to worry so much, and put yourself in his shoes to this great extent.

You have made a great statement by going away. But the posters here are trying to tell you that, do not make this just as a statement and then you go back. We want you to leave him, so that he can fend for himself, and he can start to reflect on his own actions. Without you to help him along. Because we can also only really figure things out for himself, when you have leave him. Many of us make mistakes in our lives, but until that person or that something is gone. We won't appreciate or to learn why things happen the way it does. If something does not work, then it is okay to walk away and not cause other parties to suffer also too. This is what being humane is all about.

You made the first move now. Continue the journey to leave him. He hurt you. You cannot go back to him.

I was thinking of writing out my experience of the situation on Sunday night (like the explanation I started this thread with). I was also thinking of giving him the following 4 points I need him to commit to. I am dreading doing this, I think he's going to hit the roof. What do you think?:

I think writing down all your thoughts is a good idea. But do it for yourself only. Do not share your private thoughts with him. He needs to figure his own way out of this. Without you needing to tell him so.

I think you guys should break up. If you want then write him a closure letter of some kind, then do that instead.

You cannot "counsel" him, which is what your post come across to me as. You cannot play this role in his life. You got to not send that information to him. Plus, if you feel quite out of sorts about this meeting, and is worried about the meeting. Then do not go. You need to get yourself back to a place where you feel happy about things in life. If something makes you scared, then don't do it. Just because the meeting exists does not mean you have to attend it. Protect your feelings and your anxiety. If going will make you anxious, then do not go. It is that simple.

I can tell you straight off that he is not likely to "commit" to what you say. He is a grown man, and he will have his own perception as to what he thinks happened too. Something like what just happened takes time to sink in, and it takes a long time for it to recover. Sometimes a clean break is the only way to move things forward. It's gone beyond what you think some counselling can do. It does not work that way. I hope that you can see the situation as clearly as where we are sitting right now as bystanders.