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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Lweji · 09/06/2014 19:06

If you have the conversation, please make sure it's in a public place and one that you can leave easily. Better safe than sorry.
Take care and come back any time you need to.

stinkingbishop · 09/06/2014 19:11

Well done OP. That took real guts. You've done the right thing.

And, you know what, even if it turns out he genuinely does have panic attacks and gets help for it and it never happens again, A NICE, NORMAL, LOVING MAN would never blame you for running. They would just feel so sad that they'd made you scared, the person they love.

But I have a funny feeling that's not what will happen.

IthoughtATMwasacashpoint · 09/06/2014 19:13

Sapphire, if you are worried about the conversation tomorrow then either delay it or have it by phone. Please don't put yourself in a position where he could hurt you.

SauceForTheGander · 09/06/2014 19:20

If he threatens to hurt himself or claims he can't live without you - be clear that these are methods of control and abuse.

Itsfab · 09/06/2014 19:23

WELL DONE and thank goodness.

He is scared because everyone will know what an abusing twat he is. Not scared about losing you.

Do NOT tell him where you are.

If he threatens suicide call 101 and tell them. A sharp word for wasting time should nip that in the bud.

Lweji · 09/06/2014 19:24

What's important is that you can't live with him.
It's not safe for you, and you can't fix him.

If he really loves you that much, he will let you go. Anything else is selfishness at best.

mistlethrush · 09/06/2014 19:26

Well done for telling a friend in RL and getting out tonight - I hope that you can make that permanent in time and find somewhere to live etc.

I echo what's already been said: he has said that its YOUR fault that he's like this. Whether or not that is the case, the solution to the problem - which will (if he's right) make his panic attacks go away, is to stop the relationship.

Lancelottie · 09/06/2014 19:30

Was that to me, Anyfucker? If so, I'm not suggesting OP should excuse his behaviour at all. It sounds awful and she should not live with it.

But DS's (near-identical) behaviour is not manipulative. It's wrong, it's scary, it's damaging to him and others. But DS genuinely can't help it (yet. We're trying).

Helpys · 09/06/2014 19:32

Good luck. You're doing the right thing.

AnyFucker · 09/06/2014 19:36

Yes, Lottie, it was to you. I think you are projecting your son's behaviour onto this terrifying abuser and that it is not helpful.

myroomisatip · 09/06/2014 19:41

It is very telling that a conversation can induce so much fear.

It should not be that way.

You do not have to have any conversation until you feel strong enough.

I have been there. Honestly, take as much time as you need. And do not engage.

You have every right to end this relationship and you do not have to explain yourself to him any more than 'this is not working for me'.

What shows him up to be abusive is that he is only ever like this with you.
Panic attacks are non negotiable, they come whenever, not just when it is convenient.

Lweji · 09/06/2014 19:46

BTW, of course he doesn't care who is around. You have been putting up with it for years. So far he had no reason to think it would matter who saw it. He was entitled to it.
But he didn't do it to anyone else.

FairPhyllis · 09/06/2014 19:49

I am really happy you will be safe tonight. Don't tell him where you are going. And WELL DONE.

And the conversation tomorrow? Well actually, you don't have to do that if you don't want to. You don't owe him a conversation tomorrow, or ever. But if you do do it, make sure it is in a public place, or you have someone with you.

I advise you contact Women's Aid to get some advice on your next step particularly if you are going to need housing.

Sadly his next move will probably be to say he is having a breakdown or threaten to harm himself - call an ambulance for him if this happens. It will be amazing how quickly he will recover. It's another way to try to regain control over you.

And DON'T go back to him. He will try to make you feel sorry for him, will promise that he will be able to change, that he'll do all kinds of things - but he won't change. He won't be able to. It is vanishingly rare for an abuser to be able to unlearn their abusive tendencies and would take genuine willingness to change and years of heavy duty therapy.

limeadefizz · 09/06/2014 19:56

My ex husband used to do the same thing: I felt like you OP at times.

Funnily enough, after I left him, despite all the angst and panic attacks, he couldn't get the "new wife" in place fast enough Hmm

It wasn't a case of us having a special connection, or me being the only one who could mend him, he was just desperate for ANYONE to pay him attention and mother him when he wanted to behave like a shouty toddler to get his own way.

This kind of man is a revolting piece of work: they want you to turn into Super Mother figure to solve their rage and sort out their bottomless need for attention, and when they aren't appeased, they'll take it out on you.

SauceForTheGander · 09/06/2014 20:02

Yes Lime that was my observation too - very good at sorting themselves out for long enough to find someone else.

Maisie0 · 09/06/2014 20:04

You can let the emotions come through when you are safe in your friend's place. You have to remind yourself that you cannot be his entire everything. Sometimes our first love is the hardest relationship to let go off. If you have grown apart, then you have grown apart. If you are uncertain about whether both of you are good for one another. Then letting go is also okay too. There is no time pressure for everything. He may feel hurt and you may feel hurt too, but that is to be expected. But after the hurt subsided, you got to ask yourself with clarity whether you guys will make one another happy or not. Cos what happened cannot go on.

I think I let go of my first love too. As well as some of my old uni friendships. When I can see that I am not the best fit towards my friend, we drifted apart. This is okay. Because at the end of the day, everybody should be happy with their own chosen friends, or their own chosen partner.

If the idea of the conversation is making you scared, then do not talk. As another poster said. Take as much time as you want. Taking timeout of a relationship sometimes is the mature thing to do. If we do miss someone, we should feel a yearning. It shouldn't feel fearful of losing the other person, and you shouldn't need to think and feel his feelings. That's too much.

As for the conversation tomorrow. You do not have to go to the appointment if you do not wish to do so. It is your perogative. Listen to your own gut instinct. If you feel relieved, then I dare say that must be the desire from your own heart.

AdoraBell · 09/06/2014 20:20

Just seen this.

Saphire well done for calling your friend. You've had some really good advice on here and I can't add anything different, but definetley only meet him in a public place like a coffee shop or restaurant.

Don't feel sorry for him, he is an adult and can deal with his emotions, unless he genuinely has MH issues.

I also very much doubt that he's having panick attacks.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 09/06/2014 20:33

This kind of man is a revolting piece of work: they want you to turn into Super Mother figure to solve their rage and sort out their bottomless need for attention, and when they aren't appeased, they'll take it out on you.

^^This.

Well done OP on getting out - at least for now. Please as a matter of urgency find a way to at least postpone the wedding. And come here for support.

KERALA1 · 09/06/2014 20:43

I was with a long term boyfriend when I was your age who had volcanic rages - he would shout and scream abuse at me, but it would only happen every few months when he was drunk and the rest of the time he was my "soulmate" or so I thought. I remember the walking on eggshells thing - I could see the rage coming. It was very hard as I wanted to be with him but felt he was like two people, he had a horrid father blah blah.

What worked for me was imagining myself as a child - was this the sort of man I imagined myself building a life with? Also I am lucky enough to have a loving supportive background. Still it was hard to break up with him I only managed it by moving cities. I met DH a year later. He is amazing and every day I am more relieved than I can say that I dumped my ex. I would be in a Womens Refuge or something now instead of with my gorgeous kind and fun husband and lovely children. Move on.

Paq · 09/06/2014 20:46

Sapphire Thanks look after yourself, you have been very brave.

SignoraStronza · 09/06/2014 21:03

Have been following this thread and just wish to reiterate that this is the behaviour of an abusive, controlling man child.
I had a child with a man whose tantrums sound very similar - I finally left after one of the projectiles he hurled during his headbanging, foot stamping strops sent our toddler flying.
His father was also a nasty, belligerent, controlling little man (who used to beat him from an early age) and I didn't want to become a husk of a woman like his mother.
Don't spend a lifetime treading on eggshells.
Funnily enough, these 'men' usually manage to keep a lid on it in the workplace.

pinkhairgal · 09/06/2014 21:15

I hope you're ok and have time and space away from your partner to think and feel safe.

My friend is married to someone like your fiance, I can't see it ending well, he has already tried to strangle her during one of his 'episodes', it's no way to live.

AnnieLobeseder · 09/06/2014 22:38

OP, you've been given some very sensible advice on this thread. I'm sure it's a lot for you to take in and you must be feeling overwhelmed so I'll keep this short. I agree with everyone who has said that you cannot feel any responsibility to "fix" him; only he can fix himself, and at this stage, he won't even acknowledge that he has a problem, and is instead blaming you.

It appears that these "panic attacks" are entitely self-diagnosed, so it would be perfectly reasonable for you to suggest that he seeks medical advice on how to avoid them. If he refuses, and keeps putting all the blame on you, then you have your answer. He doesn't want to change, and nothing will change as long as you stay and enable his behaviour.

If nothing else, please at least postpone the wedding. It would be a terrible idea to marry him at this stage. Firstly, I'm sure your family and friends would be supportive rather than judgemental. And secondly, even if anyone does judge, why on earth would you risk committing yourself to a lifetime of misery just to keep up appearances with people who aren't even involved in the relationship?

Good luck!

sykadelic · 09/06/2014 23:12

Well done OP on taking some time away to think. His behaviour at this time should be telling as well.

NettleTea · 09/06/2014 23:45

He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else!

I think its interesting that he calls these episodes 'panic attacks' when these are something that you have suffered from. I suspect that he uses that term specifically because you dont want to pull someone up on something that happens to you, as would feel hypocritical. And also it encourages you to emphasise with him.