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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
crustyweetabix · 13/06/2014 23:38

Sapphire, all the advice on here is invaluable & accurate & everything you should listen to but from your responses I can almost hear you thinking ' but my partner is different because he hates himself for what does & really wants to change'

I also imagine all the stuff about him manipulating you and keeping you just where he wants you seems at odds with your experience in that you feel there is no premeditated thought in these rages, no great controlling plan, they just happen.

The problem is that it doesn't matter if he doesn't mean for them to happen or not. It doesn't matter that he feels bad that they happen & never wants it to happen again. That might well be an absolutely genuine feeling from him. They do happen. That's the point. They will happen again. He is damaged. He has told you he cannot control himself. This has nothing job to do with you.

god forbid if you then bring children into a relationship. They are a joy but them put a bomb under your partnership. They temporarily bring out the worst of you both.the worst of him is dangerous . Even if he 'behaves well' for a while will you ever be sure he can cope with life's enormous stressors.

More fool you if you ever bring children in to this. Good luck & be brave xx

oikopolis · 14/06/2014 00:26

Thinking of you love

Sapphire18 · 14/06/2014 08:08

Thank you all so much. Just a quick msg to say im doing ok, think we're both making progress in terms of recognizing What's going on and what needs to be done.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/06/2014 08:13

"think we're both making progress in terms of recognizing What's going on and what needs to be done".

That's the most worrying bit of your message; that to me says you are still deep in denial here.

Sapphire18 · 14/06/2014 08:22

We've talked at every opportunity over the last three days. I know people will say I'm naive but I can tell he's totally remorseful, and recognises what he's been doing. He acknowledges it was abuse, not panic or anger or stress. He talks about how he could have handled it differently. Has talked to his friends and enrolled on the course. I've recognised it is not my responsibility to change him; only he can do that. He is aware of this too.

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/06/2014 08:30

Does he agree that a wedding is out of the cards until you are confident about his behaviour?
Has that been discussed?

Sillylass79 · 14/06/2014 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FunkyBoldRibena · 14/06/2014 09:11

He talks about how he could have handled it differently

Hmm...yes of course he could have. But he didn't. He petrified you and he decided to keep up the pressure. I mean, come on! How much more do you need to make you realise that this is not going to end well.

How many times have we seen women who knew what their partners were like but still married and had kids with them. And they spend the rest of their lives regretting it.

magoria · 14/06/2014 09:12

Have you both recognised that the wedding needs to be postponed? Not just suggesting it is? You are reluctant to do this yourself and of course he sees that.

This is one of the things you need to do.

Funny now he has got exactly what his actions were after. You committing every spare moment to him.

Don't lose yourself in this.

Sillylass79 · 14/06/2014 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Littletigers · 14/06/2014 09:18

He talked about how he could have handled it differently? That still suggests you did something wrong OP. The fact is, there was nothing to handle in the first place. he was patronising you and you didn't appreciate it. you handled that maturely and assertively and that's what he couldn't handle.
Not being flippant but it reminds me of the Smiths song:
He was a sweet and tender hooligan
And he swore that he'd never ever do it again
And of course he won't
No, not until the next time
Postpone the wedding until after he's finished his course.
Tell all your family today what he has done.
Protect yourself

meiisme · 14/06/2014 09:21

My very damaged and very abusive ex would feel really remorseful (when he thought I might leave) and could discuss very well what he did and why (and would lap up the appreciation I showed at those times, and let me take on more responsibility/tasks because he needed his energy for working on himself). Both parts were genuinly him and your P sounds much the same. If you want to know if he's really changing, stop focussing so much on his problems, go about your own business, expect mutual support like you would in a loving relationship and see if he is still interested in changing himself.

Sillylass79 · 14/06/2014 09:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lioninthesun · 14/06/2014 09:36

OP I think you are staying with him and will get married as it is the easier thing to do.

Please do not feel ashamed to come back when he does this again, probably very close to the wedding day itself I imagine (the stress of maintaining this pretence he did something worse than you will be eating him up). I don't want to predict doom and gloom but sadly that is how I see it. I really hope you are speaking to your mum at least about it this weekend and he hasn't talked you out of the best support you could ever have.

BravePotato · 14/06/2014 09:44

OP.,sillylass speaks a lot of sense, read her posts with attention.

BravePotato · 14/06/2014 09:51

I have a friend who is like you. She is lovely.

Her DH is problematic with anger issues (rage!) and depression and moments of remorse and even one attempted suicide.

She is worn out.

They have a daughter who is gentle but a very very anxious child.

Whenever she had a normal toddler tantrum, he would either yell, run away or even on occasion raise his fist as if to beat her, only just managing to stop himself.

This was in public, fuck knows how he behaves inside his own house.

It is unbearably painful for me to watch my friend allowing this man to ruin her life, and her daughter's.

The girl is 8 now and a bundle of nerves, and now has anger issues too (surprise surprise).

My friend recently asked me why her daughter was such an angry person, I was gobsmacked.

To her this relationship and his behaviour is normal.

I have told her to LTB, on the many occasions she has cried her heart out at my kitchen table.

She says she is the only one who understands him and she can't leave him as he would harm himself.

This could be your future...

TheDishwasherFairy · 14/06/2014 10:05

He'll be violent towards you again.

But he'll say it's a blip on his road to recovery.

And you'll believe him because you're too ashamed to confront the truth: that this man is abusive.

Ad infinitum.

It's a long old life OP. Is this really how you want to spend yours?

Is a violent relationship that orbits around his needs really the best you can do for yourself and your future children?

Lioninthesun · 14/06/2014 10:09

Yes, that is all in store, the feelings of guilt that you have let them down if you get out. Exp tried every trick in the book, from anger, constant texting hot/cold messages, Court so he could stop paying maintenance for DD and finally turning up on my doorstep uninvited (with a weekend bag mind!) and announcing he had chronic liver failure because of me - yes, he was going to die because MY BEHAVIOUR was forcing him to drink. Luckily I was detached enough at this point to merely apologise turn him around and beg him not to go off and drink on his way home. It still annoys me how he elicited that kind response from me after everything else he had done to us! I have moved just to ensure he can't do that to me again, or worse. He is not stable and you would be a fool to think he can change so quickly, if ever.

Glastokitty · 14/06/2014 10:16

I'm so sad for you. We are all rooting for you, screaming at you not to marry this man, but I can see you're going to, and that makes me scared for you. But we will all be here when you are ready.

Mini05 · 14/06/2014 10:25

All I can say is, that's exactly what an abuser does sorry for this sorry for that!
I must say he as very soon got on a course! Not that means anything
I'd defo put the wedding back, sod face your more important.

He is panicking thinking he is going to lose you, who else can he give the me me me out to.

Please don't marry him yet, not until he as shown a massive change in himself ( not 3 days)
Put if off, just change the date for say a years time. Money is nothing compared to a life of abuse. You will end up with MH issues living with him.

CookieMonsterIsHot · 14/06/2014 10:33

Ok, he's going to change, it'll all be fine.

I hope so.

If not, do you have a plan B? It doesn't have to be the nuclear option of cancel the wedding and/or dump him.

You could have a series of consequences you set for slip ups during his recovery.

You moving out seems to have affected him more than anything else you've ever tried.

You could help your future self by writing down a contract to yourself.

I don't know where your line is but here are some suggestions:

  • if he traps me in a room against my will, I will move out immediately for at least one week and have no contact with him in that week.
  • if he stops doing the DV course, I will move out for one week without contact.
  • if he excessively patronises me, I will spend the following evening out somewhere without him.
  • if he hits me, I will call the police, tell our families and move out for at least one month (hopefully this will never happen now he is on the road to recovery).
  • I will not get pregnant until he has been tantrum-free for two years.
  • I will see my friends independently of him once a week. If he does anything to try to get me to cancel (complains, sulks, feigns illness, tantrums) then I will spend one night away without contact.

Then stick to the contract with yourself no matter what.

Parents often do this with children. It helps because in the heat of the moment, as a loving parent, you find yourself making excuses for little Johnny's behaviour and find yourself inclined to let him off because he was tired / hungry / you hadn't handled his obvious bad mood very well / you know the supermarket is a trigger / you are really busy and could really do without a naughty step situation and the resulting tantrum and sulking / he has promised he really won't do it again and he really doesn't want to sit on the naughty step for 5 whole minutes and his angelic little face is so contrite as he weeps mummy mummy I'll be good.

The contract in your head is there to help you be strong because you know it is in the child's best interests in the long run.

Foodylicious · 14/06/2014 11:06

Hi OP

One thing that is worrying it that it almost does not matter (right now) that he is acknowledging he has a problem.

At the moment you are still living together and are still st risk.
He has to start, never mind successfully complete the course.
He does not yet have alternative coping mechanisms/strategies to deal with his anger and controling feelings/behaviours towards you.

Please, please give both of yourselves some time apart.

The fellings and emotions he is going to have to get through during the vourse will be intense and hard for him to deal with. During this time you are much greatertisk as he I going to feel and given the opportunity, behave much worse thst he roes now.

this is the readon thst people dealing with anger, dv are advised to do it on their own.

how is he going to react if a session goes badly?
will he try to hold you responsible? Saying its because you cant cope with him that he is having to go through this?

if you really have found your life-long partner and soulmate ( does it really feel like it, because it should),
Then postponing the wedding and living seperately will be hard but it should be something that he is more than prepared to do for you both.

Right now it reslly does sound like he is manipulating uou to get whst he wants with very little actual effort or hardship on his part. So far he has promised he eont do it sgsin and has digned up for a course. Sorry to say it, but apart from hurting his pride that reslly is not very much.
he is however choosing to put you at risk everyday by staying and insisting you work it out his way.

He really is still calling the shots whilst trying to make you think you are.

this pattern of behaviour is going to take a long time to break and unfortunately the course, if he does complete it, may not work if he simply attends and goes through the motions without engaging with it fully.

He may be prepared to take this risk but you shouldn't.

also many people do 'relapse'.

Please think very carefully and maybe call womens aid again for a chat and get their perspective.

This must be bloody awful but you need to get it sorted before marriage. If that is his motivation to get help now, what will it be afterwards?

please talk to your mum too x

CookieMonsterIsHot · 14/06/2014 11:27

Sapphire If you did that contract thing then that might make it easier to tell your mum without her automatically telling you to chuck him or hating him forever (which I know you are afraid of).

You could tell her about how troubled he is. How this mental health problem manifests itself towards you every few months. How moving out for one night caused him to get help. How you really think he can learn to control his behaviour. How you want to help him stay on the straight and narrow. How you can't imagine leaving him for good over a little relapse during recovery, which let's face it is bound to happen. How you've decided to set some boundaries and consequences for crossing them. That you need her help if he crosses the boundaries. That you would like to come to stay with her for a few nights at almost zero notice if he crosses one of the boundaries. That you'd like her to help you not contact him or respond to him when you are enforcing the consequences of his behaviour for the night / week whatever.

Could you imagine doing that?

Fairenuff · 14/06/2014 12:24

It looks like you are going to go ahead with the wedding. You do seem to think it's inevitable, too late to stop. Too much time has passed, too much money has been committed, too much planning to throw it all away.

You are banking on him being one of the 30% of abusers who change, rather than the majority of 70% who don't. But maybe you will be right. Maybe your gamble will pay off.

In any case, if it doesn't you can always divorce. Not in the first year of marriage though as that would probably still be considered such a waste of all that money, time and planning. And you would want to give it a good year, just to prove to yourself that you didn't give up on your marriage and did everything you could to save it.

Of course, if you become pregnant in that year, that would not be a good time to leave. It's only fair to try and work on the relationship for the sake of the child and give him a chance to adapt to all those pregnancy hormones. And he would have a good nine months to change before the baby came.

But if he hasn't changed by then, you could leave him couldn't you. Or would it be more complicated with a child between you? Would you be happy leaving a baby in his care when it was his turn to have them for the weekend. Would it be better to wait until the child was older and could do more for themselves. They would be less likely to trigger him then. And they would be able to talk and tell you if there was a problem.

Better give it a good four years then, if he hasn't changed by then, you could leave. Unless you had another child during that time. But four to six years tops...

NettleTea · 14/06/2014 12:54

If you only read one thing, please read THIS
This is Lundy Bancroft. He has worked with abusive men from every walk of life for years, he runs programmes for women too, he is the author of the oft mentioned 'Why Does he Do That'
He is possibly the top man in his field

If you wont listen to us, please please listen to this experience specialist professional