Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
captainmummy · 13/06/2014 08:28

Saphire - I bet you are reading this and thinking; that is not him, They don't know him, They are all blowing it up out of all proportion, I know him and I dont think he is like that, and who'd know, after all? We don't know him, but we know the type, and we know the red flags, and we know how it will end. He IS like that, he IS the type. Try thinking like that, for a bit.

You thought you'd found a lovely man, (he isn't), your soulmate, your best friend (a friend wouldn't do that), you had a wedding to plan, (so exciting!), a life plan. Once you can see that in fact all this is wrong, it is not going to happen like that (because of him) then the scales will fall from your eyes.

You explained the reasons for maybe postponing the wedding? And luckily he agreed, otherwise you would have had to think about cancelling? And now you are going to sleep on it?

FGS, postpone it! Take the pressure off! It's nearly 3 months away - the venue will probably be able to rebook, so you will get money back. The flights can be changed or the dates/names changed, so it is then a nice holiday. The accom ditto. People are really not so invested in your wedding that they will care for more than 5 minutes, whether they have a wedding to go to or not. They will care about you.

You cannot marry a man you are afraid of.

You cannot marry a man who is doing a DV course (against you)

You cannot marry a man who is controlling, minimising, victim-blaming and subjugating your wishes .

neverthebride · 13/06/2014 08:41

I started a thread on here a while ago about my friend seeking out contact with her ex who'd previously gone to prison for serious violence against her. Among the many incidents -broken bones, the bruises, the spitting in her face etc was one occasion which was described in Court as an act of torture.

His violence towards her started with similar outbursts to your DP accompanied by the self-hatred and the tears. She felt sorry for him and I knew him before she did and I feel sorry for him. He is a deeply troubled and unhappy man - in no small part due to growing up with an abusive Father. If he tried to stop his Dad hitting his Mum Dad would beat her twice as hard to punish them both for 'trying to gang up to make him feel bad'. He used to lie in bed at night listening to his Mum being raped knowing he couldn't stop it.But he can be sweet and funny and clever and loving and seem very vulnerable and my friend so desperately wanted to 'love him better'.

He did every perpetrator class going in prison and he genuinely does not want to be an abuser. He hates himself for it.

So my friend sought him out (damn Facebook!) and they've got back together and of course it's starting to creep in again. He can't change, he just can't. And it'll get worse. And worse. He nearly killed her last time. This time he might. I'm not even being dramatic - the MARAC people who dealt with her dv case said it was likely he'd kill her.

It always starts small. And they're always sorry. And there are always reasons why they do it and reasons to love them in spite of it.

Please don't put yourself in danger and please, please don't bring children into a situation where they see or overhear violence. It seriously fucks their heads up.

teaandthorazine · 13/06/2014 09:17

It always starts small. And they're always sorry. And there are always reasons why they do it and reasons to love them in spite of it.

This. A thousand times, this.

OP, I know this is horrifying for you, I honestly do.

I just want to say one thing. Every single woman who's told their story here thought they and their partner were different. Every single one of us thought that we would be the ones who made it through.

If we could just love them enough, if we could just show them how wonderful life together was, if we could just avoid those little flash points, if we got married, had a baby, moved house, moved countries, if we stopped being annoying or nagging - if we just kept loving them and forgiving them, one day it would all work out right.

Every single one of us was wrong.

Can you tell me why you believe you and he are any different?

CharlotteCollins · 13/06/2014 09:58

neverthebride :( That is horrendous.

HazelBite · 13/06/2014 10:19

Saphire, just tell your Mum that your Dp has to have his own way, and when he doesn't get it he can't control himself. It is the truth and I'm sure she will be able to read between the lines of the situation.

You will be surprised, you are probably not aware that many others around you are aware of his character flaws.

I have been reading this thread since Monday and veer between wanting to give you a hug and wanting to shake you and scream "wake up and realise this will only get worse!"

9 years is a long time, and he has been a part of your life for all that time, it is incredibly difficult to break away from that.

I think that you will be surprised at the reaction of those around you, and the support your family and friends will give you.

I know that you are hoping that the DV course will be the answer and that he will change, but deep down I think he believes there is nothing wrong with him, he may be agreeing to do this course just to appease you, and make a gesture (he's done this before) He has no incentive to try and change either for you or himself if he knows that you will ultimately marry him and be with him, for him to control.

This is all too much for you, you are young, you have the best years of your life ahead of you, don't ruin it by feeling obligated to him because life with him is all you've known for the last 9 years.

MrsCosmopilite · 13/06/2014 10:21

neverthebride I have gone cold.

I worked with someone who was in what appeared to be an emotionally abusive relationship. Her boyfriend was a control freak. Everything around the house had to be laid out his way. To the point of receipts clipped inside CD cases, with the discs aligned a certain way in relation to the inner sleeve, and the whole lot arranged a certain way on the shelf. One day she bought a new CD and put it out on the table. He went ballistic and smashed up the CD shelves and all her ornaments.

Did it put her off? No, they're now married with a child. I hate to think what her life is like now.

Lioninthesun · 13/06/2014 10:27

I agree tea, there is also little nagging feeling that if you let them go, someone else will come along and it will work with them. They will have had more patience/didn't give up as easily/was more tolerant or whatever. When I look back on my ex I think this at times. Then I make myself remember all of the crazy - nearly setting the house on fire deciding to sweep out the fire drunk/breaking glasses by the side of the bed drunk/getting deliberately lairy to group of thugs in town (drunk again) to get beaten up and ending up escorted home in a panda car when DD was 2 weeks old... It doesn't take much to remind me how unsafe I felt and why, no matter how charming, funny and entertaining he could be, I KNOW we are better without him. If the next woman wants to bust a gut to 'save' him I just pray she doesn't have children. Not only is it shit for the child (he managed to walk away from DD completely at 6mo and hasn't even sent a card, despite all of the self hatred - somehow I imagined the self hatred meant he had a heart!) but it escalates their feelings of powerlessness over you as I said before, him or baby. It is no way to live and honestly, no one can live like that. You are not being weak by getting yourself nicer life.

Paddlingduck · 13/06/2014 10:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

neverthebride · 13/06/2014 10:47

I did a d/v course as part of my work a few years ago and it is was led by specific d/v workers.

I was shocked to hear they were working with several women in their 60s and one in her 70s. I had stupidly thought that the violence would burn itself out over time or the men would mellow with age or something. I'm quite embarrassed I thought that now.

It doesn't stop.

PlantsAndFlowers · 13/06/2014 12:19

I'm glad he agrees it is sensible because if he hadn't I'd have really had to think of saying it's off altogether then.

He sensed that and promised just as much as he needed to.

SmashleyHop · 13/06/2014 12:38

I do wonder Sapphire if you hadn't gone to stay at a friends and told him that you contacted the DV hotline if the DV course would have come up at all. Seems like he only really reacted when you left.

Can I ask when he plans to start this program? Does he have the dates booked?

Also I would just beg you again to please let your parents know what's going on. You need them in your corner and as a previous poster said I bet he would be far more likely to attend and stick to the DV program if someone close to you knows he's going and why. Look at it like taking insurance out on his recovery.

Itsfab · 13/06/2014 13:05

My blood just runs cold when I read your posts OP.

You are going to marry this man, I just know it and you are running the biggest risk of you life. MN will be here when you need support but honestly, please please please please stop thinking you can fix this man, that this is the only person for you and that you can make him be the man you want. And as for him agreeing to postpone the wedding, he has no choice in the matter if that is what you want!!!!

Itsfab · 13/06/2014 13:11

I suspect he sees you staying just living with him while putting up with him abusing you so being married to you will be even better as you will be even less likely to leave him so he can freely up the abuse.

MrsCosmopilite · 13/06/2014 13:15

OP at the start, you said:
Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t.

You also said:
I am wondering if this can be overcome

The majority of posters on this thread have said, categorically, that it cannot in the current situation.

Most worryingly you are still defending him. Please, please, please reread everything. Ask yourself what you would be telling a friend who came to you with a story like this.

Lancelottie · 13/06/2014 13:41

Dear Sapphire, he has a big problem with or without you. You can't solve it for him and may be making it worse.

You, on the other hand, can be just fine without him (unless the missing bit from your op is that you hurl crockery and bite people when annoyed).

Why commit two of you to misery?

Lioninthesun · 13/06/2014 13:54

Thing is as well OP I am aware of people 'judging' when I write my posts. That when I write exp deliberately goaded the yobs until he got beaten up in town I feel people are imagining him to look/be a certain way. When I was in your position and came on here with my worries I wanted to say "but he wears 3 piece suits and is so charming and handsome with a lovely smile! He's really good at his job and gets flown around the world - not at all like one of those men who wear a vest and sit at home drinking cans all day!" I wanted to defend him as he is a whole person, and you always feel you are only giving one side on here. However that IS part of that person, and no matter what wrapper they come in they still have that as an ingredient. I understand how a thread full of people telling you to run for the hills can be overwhelming, but don't let it freeze you into not dealing with this.

captainmummy · 13/06/2014 14:00

I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, [for counselling] and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another. you said this in your OP, and I asked you about it before, but you haven;t answered. What are you scared to bring into the light?

You know he is abusive. You've called him abusive before, and he has disregarded it, and minimised your feelings. He cannot promise that the abuse will never happen again.

He is an abuser. you KNOW this.

Vintagecakeisstillnice · 13/06/2014 14:05

Dear Sapphire18, I'm writing to you as the friend of someone who was in an abusive relationship.

When the relationship started we were all so happy for her, she'd not long come out of a bad relationship, not abusive bad just normal/regular unhappy.

It was a whirlwind romance; he treated her so well, fancy gifts, surprise romantic holidays, constant comments about how wonderful she was, how crap he was, how he didn't deserve her.
Sounds nice and it was at first but after a very short time it became uncomfortable.
We'd see her jump, literally jump, to reassure him, build him up.
And then even my emotional obtuse OH started to pick up on the way she acted around him, because I was questioning myself, I'd heard so much about how fab and great and wonderful he was.

I started to notice little things about her change, and then bigger things. She parroted his opinions, she deferred to him constantly, when I brought it up I was told it was easier and of course he's right/he knows best.

As random as it sounds she'd always hated coffee, he loved it. I'm one of those weirdos who don't like hot drinks unless its mulled wine, OH is a tea monster, every time we visited we'd be offered a drink. He'd leap to be the good host, I'd ask for water and get it, OH, tea and get it, she'd ask for tea and get coffee. . .

Her every opinion and choice was quietly and manneredly eroded.

Following advice from here and Women's Aid, we gave quiet support and let her know we would always be there for her, while worrying like shit, terrified to say anything in case we were the next in line to get cut off , because so many people didn't 'get' him, so many didn't 'understand' him, and never spoken or about again

And gradually it started to come out the emotional abuse, the financial abuse, all prefaced with the- Oh this is funny but. . . or Oh poor boyfriend, this has happened and we've had to pay out thousand's (we meaning her).

We suspected the abuse had become physical, but knew from raising concerns earlier that any question/comment would be dismissed and there would be coldness/ lack of communication after. We kept our mouths shut for fear that she'd think she had no one to call if the worst came to it

Then we got a call at 2 am from the police.

Thankfully, it was only to ask if we'd take her in, she didn't want him to be taken in to custody/ be homeless for a night. She 'only' spent 3 days in the hospital from that 'panic attack' and from the attitudes of the AE staff this was not the first time they'd seen her. (They were great BTW)

When I answered the phone heard it was the police and her name I assumed she was dead.

You will be surprised and maybe shocked at how many of your family/friends are like us.

They'll have read the advice, and be waiting in the background, grinding their teeth, hating hating hating the thought that it looks like they are seeing your relationship as normal.

But all will be expecting and terrified of that call in the middle of the night.

You can tell yourself you're different, your relationship is different, he's different, he really wants to change, be different.

It isn't
He isn't

Itsfab · 13/06/2014 14:23

When I left the man who hit me people told me how much they hated what he did to me and how they could see he wasn't right for me, or anyone frankly.

True friends would tell you your man is a prick but they would also be worried you would shoot the messenger and they wouldn't be around to support you when he hurts you again.

AnyFucker · 13/06/2014 16:33

vintage what a great friend you are

CaptChaos · 13/06/2014 17:41

I just want to reiterate what I and others have said.

Your family and your friends, the ones you have left, will know.

They will have seen the tiny tiny changes which add up to a different you over time.

They will have been waiting for you to open up to them.

vintage you are amazing.

DocMcStuffinsBigBookOfOuches · 13/06/2014 19:39

Sapphire, I know all this must seem incredibly overwhelming, but people are telling you their stories in the hopes of saving you further pain and abuse in the future.

You know how people often say "if only I could go back and tell 14 year old me..."?

Well I often think "if I could go back and tell 17 year old me not to get engaged"; and then "if only I could go back and tell 18 year old me not to go through with the wedding"; and then maybe "if only I could tell 19 year old pregnant me to leave him".

All of us who have been down the path of abusive marriages wish we could go back and change our pasts, but we can't. All we can do is hope that sharing some of our stories will be enough to prevent you being another one of us wishing we could go back and tell ourselves not to do it.

But if you do go through with it, we will always offer you a listening Ear, a hand to hold, and a shoulder to cry on.

We don't want you to be one of us, but if you do end up as one of us, we look out for our own.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 13/06/2014 20:41

There's so much I've wanted to say on this thread but I don't know where to start.

Except to say - they're all right, OP. Over six hundred of them are right.

I was just reading some of the 'silly tales of the abusive ex' thread. This reminded me of your situation:

I abhorred my ex's behaviour. It just took me a long time to realise that that behaviour was not what he did occasionally it was who he is. Eventually reality conquered hope and I saw it for what it was.

Don't marry him, OP. Just don't fucking marry him.

FairPhyllis · 13/06/2014 21:41

Sapphire, if it's tomorrow you're seeing your mum, please tell her. She already knows.

Littletigers · 13/06/2014 21:54

sapphire are you ok today?