DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

[Sapphire18]

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

If he really wants to change, then he'll leave and postpone the wedding.

That's the biggest indicator that he is determined to fix this. Words are meaningless. He needs to prove it, and he can, by doing this.

If he won't, then he's continuing to hide behind what he wants and get frustrated when you don't comply.

I've just seen that he doesn't want To post pone the wedding.

Of course he doesn't. He doesn't want you getting loose from his grip.

My ex insisted I should stop taking the contraceptivo pill on the basis that he was probably infertile. There was no reason for him to think he was infertile, he was just trying to tie me To him permantly.

Sapphire - Apologies: this is probably repeated all over the place, but I only read your posts and not the whole thread. A few points:

1. He is abusive. Many abusers have themselves been abused, so when he turns on you, it is probable that at that point he is back in the past. He regresses. This doesn't absolve him of the responsibility; not at all. In fact, he is the only one who can be responsible for his current behaviour - not you, not his family, no-one from the past. This feels primal and deep, and it needs therapy that goes deep - and there really needs to be a strong desire on his part to change, because abusive behaviour is entrenched, self-serving (he gets to play his 'story' out time and again with you) and highly addictive.

1. Cancel the wedding. Don't postpone it. You can always reinstate it later, although I think that unlikely unless he is willing to commit to some serious work, which in itself is disruptive: it is designed to break patterns, and that often breaks other things around it, including relationships. And necessarily so.

1. Not telling your family the whole truth: is that, perhaps, a way of controlling the full force of the truth for yourself? That by not telling them everything, you can perpetuate the denial? Because, really, if you do tell them what has been happening, you, too, will have to face the stark reality of your words to them. There is no minimising it. The abuse is then out in the open for all to see. And that's the only way to move forward.

Best of luck to you.

Calling it a flaw is seriously downplaying what he does to you.

Say you bought a car. It's a cute car, comfy seats, quite stylish and usually fun to drive. Every few months, it veers out of control and crashes into a tree, leaving you feeling scared and shaken. Would you keep that car after it had done that more than once because you liked being seen in it, or would you become afraid of driving it and get rid, before it really hurt you?

Paq it's a powerful story.

Sapphire, the TED talk speaker also thought she was with her soulmate. :(

Let's look at how your partner is behaving now. He says he's utterly determined to change. But he seems utterly determined to have his own way. Do you see that he's not listening to you, or respecting your point of view? He still thinks you should get married.

" I can't seem to make him understand"; but he does understand. He just doesn't want to hear. Same as he didn't when you asked to postpone the DIY discussion. He's determined that you'll do what he wants.

Well, because I see beyond this behaviour
This is your biggest mistake.
You need to actually see this behaviour.
This behaviour is your future!!
You don't see it yet.
Please re-read some of the stories on your thread of others who have been where you are and gone through with it.
Of course he is nice and you love him but it doesn't stop him being abusive and manipulative.
He's still doing it to you, you just can't see it.

My partner doesn't think we need to postpone the wedding
Here we go again - HIM!!

he says what good will it do
OH and again

he is utterly determined to change
Not proving it so far now is he???
Again HIM!!!
Arrrggghhhh....................

We are raging here for you looking at how he is still treating you, which is why you are still getting so many responses and advice.

What about YOU????
Stop thinking about his wants and needs.
I think you are so conditioned by him and doing what the wants that you don't even know what you want.

I have absolutely no doubt that along with the violence, there is also a lot of emotional abuse that you haven't even realised.

Step away. Stop contacting him and speaking to him.
Get some distance.
Let him sort himself out.

I would bet money that if you called a halt to the relationship and wedding and ended things properly he wouldn't carry on with this DV course.
It's all lip service.

Oh you poor thing

But re the wedding, you simply CANNOT marry someone who is in the middle of a domestic violence course. You just can't. Say it out loud. See how it sounds? Lunacy.

And your parents probably will think less of him, at least for a bit. But it really really doesn't matter. If he does change then they'll come around. And if he doesn't - well you've had a lucky escape.

Imagine you standing up there at the altar saying your marriage vows in 2 months time with all this swirling around your head. I can tell you, it will feel hollow. You won't find the emotional peace you're looking for on your wedding day, because it's just a mirror of where you are as a couple - it's not magic.

If it was me, right now at this second in your shoes.....I would drop all talk of his "changing" and let him get on with it. Make no decisions yet about the wedding, I'd say 2 weeks and either the mask of his "recovery" will slip or he'll get his head down and really work at it.

You don't need to decide this today or tomorrow. Time will tell if he is for real or all talk. Give him 2 weeks and the truth will out.

If you find yourself having to check what you say or do in his presence to control how he reacts to you, well you have your answer.

Good luck Sapphire.

For what its worth I don't think for a second you should marry him. The reason all the joy has been taken out of the planning saying the vows etc. is because deep down you know this can't happen. For your own safety and the safety of any potential children this can't happen with this man.

@Zucker- that could be a very good idea. I don't know how I will know in 2 weeks though. It feels like the clock is ticking.

But I do think you need to get away from him during those two weeks to clear your head.

@Zucker - you're right, the joy has gone out of it. If it was just an argument, even a major one, 4 days later I'd have recovered and be hardly thinking about it, cheering myself up with the planning and enjoying it all again.

As it is I can barely think about the wedding. I am dreading this weekend, it's the first time I have seen all my family since getting engaged and I know there'll be so many questions. My grandma has already told me she has plans for us to have a bottle of wine and a good natter about ALL the plans. I was so looking forward to everything.

One of my siblings hates him

Why? Hate is a really strong word for most people, why does your sibling feel so strongly about your DP that they have told you that they hate him?

What did he do to you or them that is hateful?

@MothershipG - I know it sounds awful but it's my sister's own issues, it's totally irrational and unrelated to this. I know people will start saying I am being deluded but honestly it is unrelated.

Of course you can see beyond it, to the nice guy he is the rest of the time. And I wasn't trying to sound unsympathetic. What I was getting at is that you can have this with someone else. Someone who is kind and nice and your soulmate 100 percent of the time. It probably doesn't seem like it from where you're standing. But there are 7 billion people on this planet. Even if he is that compatible with you, there are plenty of others who are just as compatible, ones that won't treat you the way he has treated you.

Of course he doesn't see the benefit of cancelling the wedding. There is no benefit for him. Only losses. You are the one who stands to gain everything from postponing the wedding. From his perspective if there's no wedding there's no extra level of control. It's harder to leave when you're married and he knows it.

I can't remember who said it up thread, but it's seems to be true that people will read about others being abused and think "well, mines not that bad." But those abusers didn't start off being that way. It grew and developed over time. I bet if you were able to look in at your relationship from the outside you'd see a start point and see how it has steadily got worse over the years. It's not so easy when you're in the situation.

I do really feel for you and I think it's been great of you to keep coming back to the thread because in all honesty I'm not sure I would have in your shoes, with everyone pointing out something you really don't want to see.

Whatever happens (and by that I really mean I desperately hope you postpone/cancel the wedding), I hope you make the right decision for you. Not for him, not for your parents, not for your family (who will be on your side anyway) but for you.

Is there any possibility you may want children some time in the future? If so, you could think about the fact that you are choosing a dad for them not just a husband for yourself. Someone who needs a DV course isn't the best choice of dad for them.

You could still gather around a bottle of wine and make plans for you to leave.
And plan the holiday with your parents.

Men to avoid marrying
-alcoholics
-perpetrators of domestic abuse

The chances of them changing are very slim.
If you were dying of cancer at some point would you opt for the treatment with 30% cure rate?
Get yourself some better odds

And your sister has rumbled him

So he's already back tracking!! Wasn't he saying that it would be a good idea to postpone the wedding before? Now he's saying no?? Oh Sapphire! Can't you see?? Please- It's already starting!

Pretty soon it will be "Oh Sapphire- I can't possibly start that program before the wedding, there is just too much to do and all the stress is just making it worse." Then it will be "Well we are married now, and I haven't done anything to you abusive (oh except all that emotional manipulation I've just done to get out of postponing the wedding and doing the DV program) so why do I need to do it? I've changed all by myself!" Then is starts all over again. Only you have to stay married for a year before you can actually divorce and may or may not have a child.

As far as telling your parents- Make him tell your parents. The first step to recovery is getting over the denial. If he really wants to marry you, fix things like he said, he should march straight to your parents and tell them what's been going on. That would speak volumes to me- and make him accountable to not only his victim and a few strangers. This is NOT a flaw... Do you think child abusers have flaws? It's exactly the same- I'm sure kids really love their parents even though they may abuse them emotionally and physically. But it doesn't mean they need to be in the same house as them.

Are you back in the home with him Sapphire?

Saphire

How many friends do you have who treat you and make you feel the way he does? I ask because you said he is your best friend.

My last post may have sounded a bit harsh- I just see so much of myself in you! I never told my parents about my ex's behavior because they disliked him already and I didn't want them to have extra reasons too. It wasn't till I called my dad up after he had finally hit me that I fessed up to all the other abuses I had been living with... My dad was heart broken I hadn't told me. Yours will be heart broken you haven't told them.

Can you imagine sitting with your Nan having a glass of wine and pretending to be excited about a wedding you know in your heart shouldn't be happening?? Knowing if you told her everything you've told us she would want to scoop you up in her arms and never let you return to this abusive man! I can't imagine that would be fun at all.

Plenty of good advice here but a few things that stand out to me in your last posts, OP

• why does he need a wedding as an incentive to change? His incentive to change should be that he doesn't want to abuse his partner. He shouldn't need a "reward" to decide to change.

• his comments about being panicky and not going to work are all about "poor him". It still isn't about you. He has just been told he is abusive and he has abused you. If you were in his position would you be talking about how sad you are feeling for yourself, or would you be absolutely horrified and be focusing all your energy on the person who has been your victim? I certainly wouldn't be telling my victim how sorry I feel for myself.

• both these points make me pretty certain he is going to be in the 70% who fail, because he is still focused on himself and he still doesn't really get that he has abused you and you are his victim.

10 weeks is much, much too short a time to change. He can make all the promises he likes, but the only thing that matters is what he does, and he doesn't have enough time to make the changes for this wedding.

I guarantee you your family would rather lose the money 100 times over than watch you marry an abusive man. I think you should tell them what he has done. You need their support. As another poster said, if he turns it around in years to come and becomes a great guy, then in time they will see that he has changed.

That you feel you absolutely can't tell them is a major sign to me that this is very, very wrong. When I started dating many years ago, my mum told me that if any man ever did anything to me that I felt ashamed to tell other people, then that was a sign that it was wrong. I think that is a good rule to live by.

I find it utterly heartbreaking that your view is now so warped that you consider his abuse of you a "flaw" when in fact he is showing you an integral part of his nature

That desperate hope is a terribly powerful thing, denial can be so cruel.

I truly, truly hope you can find your way out of the fog before you are even more hurt by this man.

The time for change was when you asked him to do it the first time
You are now many more times down this cycle and each time you go round it , the chances of change get less and less.
You only get one life, take your chances of happiness and run from this man

De-lurking here to say that I think the only possible wake-up call he will get is if you cancel the wedding and leave.

And you can consider that you are doing it for his benefit as his only hope of salvation.

You are so embarrassed about cancelling the wedding, how much more embarrassed are you going to be if you have to separate shortly afterwards? Well that embarrassment mean that you have to stay in an abusive demoralising relationship?

I also think you need more friends. You say he is your best friend, I think you need other best friends, whom you can confide in. Have you become isolated from your old friends? Because that is another part of an abusive relationship.