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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Paq · 12/06/2014 15:44

Lweji's wording is good.

When my DSS called off his wedding 2 years ago he used very similar wording - something like "DF has some difficulties to work through so we have decided to postpone the wedding. We know that our friends and family will support us in making the right decision.

Not ONE person reacted with anything but sympathy and understanding. Most people just responded vaguely positively and didn't pry into what was obviously deeply personal.

FWIW he and his fiancee separated for 6 months - very little contact. She worked out her problems independently and then they got back together. There is now a much healthier dynamic in their relationship and they are very happy now (with a baby and a re-scheduled wedding).

No one even comments on the past. Stuff happens, life moves on.

hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2014 15:45

Lweji Suggestion is a good one.
Something along those lines.
It's then not an out and out lie either so you won't feel so guilty.

HatieKokpins · 12/06/2014 15:46

You just need to say that you think it's not the right time, that you both have some things to work out, and that it'll happen when it is the right time. And mention that you hope that they'll understand that it has been an extremely difficult decision and that you'd like their support.

You do need some help and support though, lovely. You really do - have you considered seeing a counsellor yourself?

Paq · 12/06/2014 15:47

And we now LOVE my DSS's fiancee (and believe me - she caused some right shitstorms in the past). We always loved her but we knew she had problems to resolve before it was right for them to get married.

People have capacity for forgiveness and understanding. Smile

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 15:52

I just can't see me getting away with saying those things without some questions, at least from my parents and siblings. One of my siblings hates him anyway so that won't be met with much support.

I am dreading it. My partner doesn't think we need to postpone the wedding, he says what good will it do when he is utterly determined to change. A part of me thinks it's true - if he changes what will we have gained by postponing, other than a lot of gossip and worry and expense? I can't seem to make him understand the reasons. I feel like the wedding is an INCENTIVE for him to change (I know that's stupid) and like what's the point in staying living together, can we do that if we call off the wedding? A huge amount of trust and happiness has been lost.

I am seeing all my extended family this weekend and even more of them (40-50 people) next month. All are excited about the wedding and I know I'll be asked loads about it.

OP posts:
Zone2mum · 12/06/2014 15:53

A friend of mine cancelled her wedding with only a few weeks to go. She had qualms. They split up, and went their separate ways. After a couple of years, they rekindled their relationship again. They got married 2 years or so later. There was no DV or abuse involved, she just wasn't able to commit to a lifetime together at that point, even though they'd been together for a number of years and had bought a home together. She did the right thing. As her friends we supported her (and didn't need to know the details). And he, because he loved her, let her go. It so happened in that case that they did eventually marry and 10 years later are still happy. But if they'd stayed apart, it would still have been the right decision.

The people who care for you will not want you to marry when your relationship is abusive. Cancel the wedding. If he really cares for you, he will understand why this is necessary. Your guests don't need to know anything other than it's not the right time. Your family and close friends will be much happier that you live a happy, safe life rather than this egg-shell treading existence. Please don't marry him.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/06/2014 15:56

"I don't want to talk about it any more - please can we change the subject" - broken record. Repeat until they get the message.

I think you are doing the right thing, and you are awesome for making these really tough decisions.

kalidanger · 12/06/2014 15:57

Sapphire Weddings are a big deal (obvs) but what's happening in your relationship is a big deal too. If it was me the only way I'd really be comfortable getting through the experience of cancelling it would be to stick as closely to the truth as possible. Don't tangle yourself up lying to your family :( You need them, and they love you, and your sibling who hates him will be relieved and delighted. That's what you need - let your family be there for you Thanks

BalloonSlayer · 12/06/2014 15:58

"My partner doesn't think we need to postpone the wedding, he says what good will it do when he is utterly determined to change."

Can't you just tell the truth? "The good it will do is that if you do NOT change then I won't have wasted my time marrying you."

Paq · 12/06/2014 16:00

  1. Call your Mum or whoever your closest family member is. Tell her that you are postponing the wedding, and ask her to tell everyone else. That way you don't have to do it repeatedly, in person, over the weekend.
  1. Practice a short, general explanation for wider family and friends, and use SDTG's broken record technique.
  1. Confide the WHOLE TRUTH to your closest allies - family and friends. They will surprise you at how understanding they will be.

If he changes what will we have gained by postponing, other than a lot of gossip and worry and expense?

An eventually happy wedding day? Rather than one overshadowed by fear and foreboding Sad

Lweji · 12/06/2014 16:01

If he was really committed, he'd be the first one to make sure you were safe.
If he really meant it, he should just go along with what you want.
He is showing he doesn't care about YOUR feelings.

cestlavielife · 12/06/2014 16:01

you cant expect him to really change in two months - that is why you have to postpone/cancel the wedding.

he has been like this on and off for years. it will take ages to really change.

it would be better you don't live together for few months.

look even kate and wills had a split. tell them you doing a kate and wills thing.

being utterly determined to change. is not the same as changing.

you will only know for sure he has changed in several months. given how he behaved towards you it isn't worth the risk of jumping to a wedding. take the pressure off him. and you.

OTheHugeManatee · 12/06/2014 16:03

DP (now DH) and I had a terrible time a few years back. He had a nervous breakdown due to work stress and went through some terrible times. One of the symptoms was that he would dissociate and be a massive arse to me: shouty, unreasonable, critical, moody, controlling, aggressive. He would then be massively contrite afterwards.

After this happened a few times I told him I couldn't be with him until he sorted his own stuff out, so could he please go and do that and in the meantime I would keep my distance. I moved out, lived my own life while he did so and eventually he did sort himself out. Fast-forward a few years and we are how blissfully happy in our marriage. But he needed me to leave - properly leave, not just threaten to leave - to get how serious it was and to take real action.

If I'd stayed I would have become more and more resentful of his moods and unreasonable demands. We no doubt would have gone through escalating arguments and it would have culminated in my leaving for good, angry and bitter and feeling like we'd wrecked the best thing ever.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is to take your space and to force the other person to do the same. The resulting clarity gives you a far stronger position from which to decide what's really in both your best interests.

OTheHugeManatee · 12/06/2014 16:03

All of which to say that speaking as a person rather than a shrink, I say you must postpone the wedding. And move out, and live your own life for a bit, and see how things pan out. But DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN IN TWO MONTHS.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2014 16:04

"My partner doesn't think we need to postpone the wedding, he says what good will it do when he is utterly determined to change".

He actually thinks that getting married whilst he is in the midst of a domestic violence perp course is a good idea?. More fool him and you for even wanting to even believe a word of this. Why do you cling on so, is it the thought of "throwing away 9 years on him". You forget that the damage has already been done.

Well he says that now but he has not even begun the course yet. Again I feel he is telling you only what you want to hear.

Its all about him still really and what he wants. He can further control you when he's married to you. He has never ever considered what you want because its really all about his entitlement to abuse you.

Abuse thrives on secrecy and you've suffered more than enough - start talking to your family and open up to them properly. Your sibling has likely sussed him and wonder why you are still with him at all. You should not cover for this person at all.

AdoraBell · 12/06/2014 16:06

Saphire you asked what can you tell your parents?

My DDs are almost 13 yr old. What I want To hear from them is the truth. I want to know if they feel afraid, if they are being pressured into doing something that will be bad for them. And if I'd paid for flights and hotels for a wedding that shouldn't happen I would either go and support them in their decisión To cancel the wedding, or treat it as a holiday for them to relax after cancelling the wedding.

I was lucky, I have a strong defiant streak that prevented me from marrying my abuser after growing up with an abusive father. Despite my self esteem being on the floor when I met him I could still think "fuck you". A lot of people don't have that, most people don't grow up angry. Please don't let politeness and a lack of anger lead you into a marriage that will be damaging for you.

BeCool · 12/06/2014 16:06

I can't seem to make him understand the reasons.
he doesn't want to understand the reasons and he doesn't want to understand you. He wants you to do what HE wants, without fuss and when he wants it.

He's under a lot of pressure right now and he's trying to hold it all together. You are not doing what he wants.

Are you currently spending time with him? I'm thinking perhaps he could be quite volatile this weekend if so.

DeputyPecksBentBeak · 12/06/2014 16:09

I don't have a lot to add other than I have never, ever, not once seen or heard someone say that they regretted leaving a relationship like this. Never. Every post I have ever seen on this, and there are countless on this thread alone, say how much of a positive change it was and how they wished they'd done it sooner.

I think you're keeping the wedding in mind and haven't told anyone in rl because it "makes it real" then. But it's already real, and happening to you.

Why would you choose to spend your life with a man who has not only abused you, but will continue to abuse you in the future? Even if he doesn't (which is remote) you will forever wonder if the dp of 2014 will ever return, and you'll modify your behaviour accordingly. When you could spend your time and share your life with a man who would never do this to you? They do exist atop, and you do deserve better

MrsCosmopilite · 12/06/2014 16:15

Sapphire why does your sibling dislike him?

You seem to feel that you owe people your time/explanations when none are necessary. Yes, if your parents are investing money in the wedding then they need some explanation but the 'working through MH issues' is a perfectly acceptable answer.

I am concerned by his sudden change of demeanour and his insistence on going ahead with the wedding. Like many other posters, I think that if he honestly wanted to change then he would be suggesting a temporary separation and cancellation/postponement of the wedding until a more suitable time.

Without knowing you or your DP personally it's hard to know exactly how controlling he is, but that is what he sounds like to me. You're walking on eggshells not wanting to 'rock the boat'. You believe he will change because he appears remorseful. He has agreed to counselling to appease you.

You need time. Time for him to commit to making a change. Time for him to enrol on the course and undertake it. You need time apart for you to recharge.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 16:15

@DeputyPecksBentBeak Why would I choose to spend my life with him? Well, because I see beyond this behaviour, to the man I love, to someone who is my best friend, who apart from this flaw is my soulmate. If he can suceed at the programme I want him in my future.

Isn't success at this programme a possibility?

I am not trying to be defiant or stop you all sending your very much appreciated messages, it's just I am trying to explain WHY I am going through this and wanting to give him a chance.

OP posts:
BeCool · 12/06/2014 16:17

"I'm thinking perhaps he could be quite volatile this weekend if so."
Sorry I should clarify this. Whenever XP & I had "thrashed things out" etc XP would be very apologetic and almost overly nice for a while - but tension was always bubbling underneath.

Add in some pressure (like your P is currently under) and he would not deal with it well. How dare I do this to him?

And very soon enough he would explode. It's just too much for his ego to deal with.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 16:17

And it's interesting that your brother hates him.
I bet other people do too, only they don't tell you.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 16:17

Oh, sibling. It could be a sister. :)

BeCool · 12/06/2014 16:19

Would you treat your soulmate like this?

How can you be his soulmate if he feels it's OK to abuse you?

This "flaw" is a massive integral part of him, how he views you and expresses what he thinks of you.

ouryve · 12/06/2014 16:26

You know, he probably could make a very good go of being a changed man for the next 2 or 3 months. You said his worst rages were less frequent than that, anyhow.

If you got married, what impetus would he have to keep up the Mr Kindandconsiderate facade? He's got you by that point. He no longer has any need to try to win you over and can sit back and revert to what works for him.

It's going to take a lot more than 80 days of consciously not over-reacting to minor disagreements and stresses and taking it out on you for him to demonstrate that he's really changed.