Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Wadingthroughsoup · 12/06/2014 14:32

Please, please cancel the wedding.

What you want from this relationship is not at all unreasonable, but unfortunately, your fantasy is not realistic, and it is making you naïve and blinkered.

For two days now, he has been saying that he understands he is an abuser and wants to change. (2 days is nothing, in the context of your whole relationship). These are just words, and are proof of nothing. These words are easy for him to conjure up, and easy to say. They don't prove he wants to change, they don't prove he will change. All they prove is that he knows what you want to hear.

The proof will be in his actions, not his meaningless words.

processblue · 12/06/2014 14:34

Thank you BeCool - and I'm sorry for your experiences too Thanks

I'm crying at my desk which is not a good look TBH so am off to do some more work now!

Best wishes to everyone who unfortunately knows what they are talking about re abusive partners.

Sapphire, please listen to everyone, we are trying to help you and save you from pain.

bibliomania · 12/06/2014 14:36

There are some very powerful stories here, and I hope I'm not being disrespectful of them if I take a different tack. No disrespect is intended.

When you hear stories about how bad things can get, it is very easy to think "That's an extreme. My situation isn't that bad". If you think about someone being badly beaten, then you getting a violent push can seem such a minor thing in comparison.

So here's another view: people are allowed to call off weddings for trivial reasons too. Frankly, so what? I honestly wouldn't think twice if I was invited to one and it then got cancelled. I'd probably be privately relieved that I didn't have to fork out for a fancy new dress.

Given them notice fairly soon and people can change their tickets if they can't get a refund. Nobody enjoys weddings so much that they can't figure out another way to enjoy themselves that weekend. If your parents can't change their tickets, they can come and support you instead. Seriously, it's not a big deal to cancel a wedding.

I know you've got hope about your DP. I'm not going to tell you to abandon all hope. But my dear, you have to watch and wait, watch and wait. You need to buy yourself lots and lots more time. There is too much at stake now.

Wadingthroughsoup · 12/06/2014 14:37

And, just to add, even if he HAS genuinely been suddenly enlightened, has realised how abusive he is, has realised he needs to change, wants to change...None of that means he will actually be able to do it. Neither of you can know, at this point, whether it's remotely possible.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/06/2014 14:40

That doesn't sound disrespectful at all, bibliomania - it sounds very sensible and balanced - and a very useful contribution to the discussion.

If I were invited to a wedding that was called off, I would not be hurt or cross or offended in any way. I would hope that the people involved were OK, and I would offer my support.

Wadingthroughsoup · 12/06/2014 14:52

I would not be hurt or cross or offended in any way. I would hope that the people involved were OK, and I would offer my support.

Exactly this^

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 14:55

I have just spoken to Respect which is the charity for DV and particularly abusers (although they told me it was the place for me to ring too).

We spoke a lot about the success of men who do the DV programme and the woman i spoke to, who'd worked with abusers for 15 years, said the main factor in the success is the person's genuine motivation to change. She said approx. a third change, a third stop being violent but continue to abuse in other ways, and a third have no change at all. I'd be putting my faith in that one third which is something to think about.

She also told me - I didn't realise this - that I could be involved because the programme would talk to me (if I wanted to) about his programme and behaviour when he's away from it. She also advised me on pre-nup arrangements to equip me to get out should I need it.

I must admit the thought of the wedding vows and all that joy is losing its appeal. I don't feel affectionate towards him, or like it's my responsibility to help him, but I do have occasional pangs of sympathy, like this morning when he told me he was so anxious he thought he shouldn't go to work; or last night when he said he was so scared and lying awake all night. I can't bring myself to say 'I love you' but I do love him deep down. My thinking on the wedding is what if we postpone it while he works on this; and he suceeds, and then we want to put the wedding back on with EVERYONE KNOWING and having judged him by then.

OP posts:
OxfordBags · 12/06/2014 15:01

Why not postpone or cancel for vague reasons, then? Stop making excuses.

He won't change.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 15:03

You don't have to tell people why you are postponing it.
You could mention his MH problems and that the wedding is making him too stressed.

BTW, his stress and angst seems a ploy, frankly. And I think that is why you are not feeling sympathetic.
You are supposed to feel sorry for him and mother him.

It sort of reminds me of the time my now exH asked me to make him coffee (I never did) after being abusive to me. I just looked in disbelief.
But they just want to know that they can still control you.
In this case, he's attempting emotional control. Not too dissimilar to threatening to commit suicide (the ultimate emotional abuse).
So, don't feel bad for him.

mistlethrush · 12/06/2014 15:04

Sapphire - but you don't need to tell everyone that 'I'm postponing it because he's abusing me' . In fact, you don't need to say why you're postponing it at all, just present it as a matter of fact - I bet most people won't ask why, and if they do you can say that you need to work some things out between you before you get married or that there are financial reasons why you need to delay matters. I would tell your immediate family, but explain that you do not want this to go any further.

I don't know how you could agree to 'proper' marriage vows at the present time, or think that his were properly meant, until he has done the course and demonstrated clearly that he's turned over a new leaf.

I still think that it is very convenient 'suddenly' seeing the light and agreeing to courses etc. But then he agreed to an anger management course last time didn't he to keep you with him, so perhaps its just par for the course.

bibliomania · 12/06/2014 15:05

But you don't have to tell everyone that this is the reason for postponing - as a pp said, you can say it was for financial reasons or some other logistical t hing.

You feel pangs of sympathy for him because he's playing on your harpstrings "Poor me....oh woe is me.....life is so hard...poor me". Self-pity isn't a particularly attractive trait. What would happen if you laughed and made a joke about the world's tiniest violin? That's the kind of thing you can do with a normal partner.

Wadingthroughsoup · 12/06/2014 15:09

I'm sorry but I think your thinking is still a bit awry (and no wonder- you've been abused for a long time).

Which is the worst out of these two scenarios:

  1. You marry a man who is abusive, who has a small chance of being able to change. He is unable/unwilling to change and continues to abuse you. Maybe his abuse escalates. You continue to feel afraid in your own home. Maybe children will come along, who will also be afraid.
  1. You call off a wedding to a man who does indeed subsequently manage to change. In a year's time, you decide to get married to the changed man. Your family and friends are apprehensive for you because of this man's past behaviour, they don't support the wedding. Maybe they don't even come to the wedding. That is hurtful, but you are still able to marry the man you love. And over the years, your family and friends come to see that your abuser has indeed reformed, and they grow to like him again.

If these are the two 'worst case scenarios', I know which I'd choose.

And of course, you are pinning your hope on the 'best case scenario' (you get married, he changes). But with only a 30% chance (if that) of this happening, it would feel too much of a gamble for me, and I hope it will for you too.

Miggsie · 12/06/2014 15:10

You sound like you feel sorry for him, but no real affection or shared joy.

The wedding needs to be called off because you don't have affection for him - that is your reason right there.

And you have lost affection for him because he treats you badly. Everything he says is designed to make you feel sorry for him and obligate you to stay. That's not love, that's a life sentence.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 15:10

Would you jump off a bridge if there was only 1/3 chance of surviving?

cestlavielife · 12/06/2014 15:11

what if you don't postpone, and you marry him while all this is going on and he lashes out and hurts you. bruises, damage, broken bones.. what will people think then?

hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2014 15:14

he was so anxious
HE - it's all about him!

he shouldn't go to work
Again HE!

he was so scared and lying awake all night
HE!!

Deary me - he hasn't changed one little bit.
It's still all ME ME ME isn't it!
Trying to manipulate you to feel sorry for him.

This really saddens me that you just can't see this.

So... the DV people are telling you that nearly 70% of abusers remain abusers and you think you man will turn out to be the minority 30% that miraculously recovers? Sad

Mandatorymongoose · 12/06/2014 15:16

I was just about to mention you being involved in the dvpp Sapphire a good one should be talking to you. I'm going to stress again how important it is for you to do some work on you. Living with abuse does odd things to your self esteem and perception and you need to work through that before you marry anyone.

Honestly, postpone the wedding - make an excuse if you don't want to tell everyone the real reason. Say the stress of it all is too much and you need to step back for a while and work on the relationship. No one will question it other than to check you're ok. No one will care for more than 5 minutes. I was invited to a wedding that got cancelled once and I can't even remember whose it was!

Then if things do work out you can say your vows knowing you mean them, spend the day full of joy like you should be on your wedding day. Everyone will just be pleased for you that you're happy and made it down the aisle.

If they don't work out it's much easier to walk away and people will say 'good job you cancelled the wedding! '. That's all.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 15:17

Yes, next he'll be blaming you or the therapy and use the anxiety as a getaway card.

Or get so bad that he loses his job and you won't be able to leave him because you feel sorry for him.

We can all see the car crash unraveling in slow motion.

MrsCosmopilite · 12/06/2014 15:17

Sapphire if you cancel the wedding/postpone the wedding nobody needs to know why. Nobody will make any judgements.
If things work out, then that's fine. If they don't then you won't be having to go through a divorce.

Process - very sad. May I offer you Thanks

Incidentally I have 'chatted' on here to a poster whose DP had 'outbursts' - no violence, but strange behaviour. They're currently getting divorced. (I would write more but I don't want to 'out' the person).

Lweji good point!

Lioninthesun · 12/06/2014 15:26

Don't stay with him because you feel sorry for him. That won't help either of you. He is trying to be the victim and minimise his behaviour and if you stay you are showing him this is acceptable.
He is a grown up, as are you. You need to know he will not be another child in the house to look after if you go on to have real children. How much help do you think he would be if you did have kids? I think you know the answer - it would be too much stress and the anxiety would flare up time and again. You would be run ragged. Please do think how you want life with your future kids to be. With my ex he made it clear going to the beach and park with DD were no fun for him; he opted out and thought family life was mundane/dull/beneath him. I realised he would never really be happy if all of the attention wasn't on him.

kalidanger · 12/06/2014 15:28

I want to say something that doesn't get said often (though OxfordBags has mentioned it). I don't think it gets said because it's not very nice and very dismissive of people with MH issues and I wouldn't want anyone to think that I am an uncaring person.

I have talked about this with my friend when I was in an abusive relationship and out of all the swirling, confusing madness of racing around trying to fix the unfixable it struck home and helped me see clearly; some people are broken. Whether it's nature or nurture or cunning or spite or whatever some people just aren't right. They are creatures. They won't change. They can't change. They are not like you and me. They won't run around trying to fix things, they will just duck and swerve and unsheath their claws deep into the flesh of the next angle to get their own way. They might have their good points and it's a shame they can't have lives like normal human beings have and all that blah blah but bottom line is that they don't get to marry me you.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 15:30

Please please help me with what I say to my parents and my wider family if I do postpone the wedding. I am seeing them all this weekend and can't find the words. I know with people less close it's fine to be vague but my relationship with my parents is one where we talk openly about problems, feelings etc. I cannot find the words. I know I couldn't fob them off with a vague reason, they'd know it was a huge U-turn and be really concerned. I don't want their opinion of him permanently damaged if everything is sorted out by the programme and we decide to go ahead in say a year's time.

OP posts:
Lweji · 12/06/2014 15:35

Your OH has developed MH problems, which have got worse due to the pressure of the wedding. He's being treated, but it was recommended that you didn't marry at this time.
Meanwhile, you have decided it would be less stressful for him if you lived apart. (you might as well go for it)

BeCool · 12/06/2014 15:35

I don't want their opinion of him permanently damaged
I kept the abuse a secret because of this too - it's really a mess isn't it?
Everyone was shocked when we split because no one knew what he was like - I protected him.

You have also protected your P all these years, while he was hurting you..

Lioninthesun · 12/06/2014 15:37

I was very honest with everyone as I knew they were my support and hiding things just meant I had even more to juggle. Honesty was the easiest and best way for me I found. There was a lot of anger at exp as he had duped everyone and made promises, but I was surprised how many people had seen it coming. They could see him clearer than I could when I was wrapped up in it. You may well be shocked at people who will step forward and say they are glad!

It is up to you what you say/how much, but these people are here for you and always will be.

Swipe left for the next trending thread