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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
FairPhyllis · 12/06/2014 13:00

You're playing a very high stakes game, Sapphire.

You are gambling that he will change on the basis of - what? A bit of contrition for a couple of days. When you already know that he's made attempts to change and then slipped back into being abusive? When you know that he has minimised his abuse of you for years? When you know that the chances of an abuser truly changing, even after one of these programmes, is incredibly low?

I notice you haven't responded to any of the comments about children, so I presume that means you are planning to have kids. In which case, if you lose the gamble, you end up scarring your children emotionally from the trauma of seeing their mother being abused (don't think you can hide it from them!), and perpetuating a cycle of abuse across the generations in which your sons feel justified in abusing their partners and your daughters expect nothing better than to be abused.

Fine if you're only throwing your own life and happiness away, but when kids are involved this shit gets serious. And pregnancy and having small children are well-documented trigger points for domestic abuse to begin or resume.

And if you lose the gamble badly enough, you end up dead. Don't think it can't happen to you.

The fact that the stakes are so high here would induce any person thinking rationally to say, 'Actually, the risks of this relationship are just too great. I could have a perfectly good relationship with some other man without taking on all these horrendously dangerous risks. My future happiness does not depend solely on this one person.'

SauceForTheGander · 12/06/2014 13:02

DocMcStuffin Flowers

(And I love your username)

cestlavielife · 12/06/2014 13:05

you have to get married because your parents have paid for their flights

you have to get married because he has promised to do a DV course - and if you cancel the wedding he wont do it

you have to get married because you are worried if you don't do it now the chance will have gone for ever

you have to get married now because your fiancé has told you that if you don't no one else will have you - no one loves you like he does

you have to get married because only you can save your fiancé from himself. he has told you that you are the only person who understands him.

you have to get married because you are scared of how he will react if you don't

you have to get married because he will be even more panicked if you don't

you have to get married because it might stop him having these outbursts

you have to get married because even though you are scared of him and his outbursts, you are more scared of being alone; and anyway he is going to be cured right? so by the time of the wedding he will be fantastic

you have to get married because if you don't then in a year's time when fiancé has improved and you get back with him no one will believe he is ok now

you have to get married to prove to your friends that he is a great guy,, really

you have to get married because you want to start making babies

none of the above makes sense.
none of the above is a reason to marry him or to stay with him.

if he truly is going to address his personality and issues with you (with women?) then he needs a lot of time alone.

HayDayQueen · 12/06/2014 13:05

Stop talking about what you owe him. What does he owe you?

He owes it to you go GET HIS SHIT TOGETHER. Not just TALK about it, not just RECOGNISE that there's a problem, but actually DO something about it, for the long haul.

crazyboots · 12/06/2014 13:08

Ok putting aside the abuse, it sounds like you are swept along by being in a relationship without really thinking about whether this particular relationship is actually what you want. If you were 20 again would this be the relationship you would choose? Being pinned to a bed over DIY? Choosing to spend your life with a man who curls himself up in a ball and needing you to treat him like a toddler? Highly unlikely but the good news is you can choose not to be in it now. You haven't wasted those years, they are part of life's experience.

You're not even 30. Many people haven't met the person they will plan to spend the rest of their life with yet.

You are talking like if you can solve this one (albeit enormous) problem that it will all be fine but how do you imagine your life and your future with him? Do you really think managing to retrain the physically abusive side of him will be it? Will he then be the supportive, empowering partner you deserve. Will you face life's challenges head on together as a truly equal partnership ? Can he really meet the demands of your imagination or are you condemning you both to a truly miserable existence for the sake of making a really hard decision now?

Think think think and look ahead more than the next few months to reach your decision.

DenzelWashington · 12/06/2014 13:11

Sapphire you sound to me as though you're just too scared to move.
Is there no one you can talk it over with in RL? Can you go back to your counsellor?

wyrdyBird · 12/06/2014 13:12

I know planning a wedding is exciting, joyful even, and it's so hard to suddenly stop it in its tracks. But consider this. A wedding is just a few days in your life. A few days. Then the money's spent, everyone's gone home, it's over. What now?

Your relationship is all that remains after the wedding. That's it.

I know someone who had a huge wedding - receptions, overseas ceremony, honeymoon, and lots of money spent by family and guests. The marriage lasted a matter of weeks. The show of the wedding had crowded out the reality of the relationship.

A cancellation would have been much better. It would have attracted five minutes' attention from the guests, and then everyone could have got on with their lives.

  • If you have a moment, this TED talk might be useful for you.

This lady went ahead and married her boyfriend after he was aggressive to her.
In her words: she was in love with a deeply troubled man, who needed her help.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yW5IsnSjo

crazyboots · 12/06/2014 13:22

Someone needs to wrote a song called Love Will Not Conquer Everything.

It doesn't even scratch the surface.

Lioninthesun · 12/06/2014 13:26

Agree with all of the other advice - he isn't stable enough for Relate to work. Sadly if he doesn't do this to anyone else you may be enabling him, which means it isn't healthy for either of you to continue this pattern, especially if they are becoming more frequent than usual.

Does he drink at all? My ex used to get huge anxiety issues that were really exaggerated by alcohol. It became a huge crutch for him and he couldn't see how aggressive he got after a few drinks. The fact your partner is minimising his actions is not good at all. I agree with everyone saying panic attacks don't give you the excuse of being physically aggressive.

I hope you can find some way to help him so that you have some time to really look at why you are with him. Does anyone else think Women's Aid might have some ideas?

BeCool · 12/06/2014 13:35

He's telling you he truly motivated to sort this out, but how can you believe him? He tells you whatever he thinks you want to hear.

It's great you believe he chooses to abuse you. Now look back at every incidence of abuse and look at it with this knowledge - he was choosing to do this to you.

And he was choosing to lie to you, give bullshit panic attack excuses etc.

And then ask yourself why do you think this is love?

Paq · 12/06/2014 13:37

wyrdyBird that's a great link. Every word is true.

Itsfab · 12/06/2014 13:44

I wouldn't say you were an idiot as I wouldn't want to upset you but I am so worried about you and I don't' even know you. I stayed with someone controlling but didn't know it was at the time I thought it was loving Hmm. I apologised to HIM after he hit me. He then hit me again so I left but I went back and eventually settled in my new live in job and made the break. The next one hit me twice as well but I only left after he kicked my pet. I couldn't love someone like that. Yet I took him back. Scared of being alone. 3 weeks later I met a new man. That was 18 years ago and we are happily married and I never have to feel scared in my own home.

Itsfab · 12/06/2014 13:47

Money is NOT important. Flight tickets are NOT important. Put on your big girl pants and realise that you can not marry this man if you want to live a happy and safe life.

AreYouFeelingLucky · 12/06/2014 13:50

Gosh, this thread is scary.

Sapphire you really can't marry him. You know that, really, but you're fighting it because you're clinging on to the dream. The future that you could have had, and the 9 years that you've spent with him so far.

He has a horrifically violent reaction whenever he feels that you aren't doing what he wants you to do. He can control this around other people, but not around you. Do you see children in your future? Because they are almost certain to not behave as he wants them too all the time.

Unfortunately, these men don't change. He'll make the right noises. He might even try and change. He won't be able too, though. He chose to be like this in the first place, why would he choose differently now? He wouldn't. It makes no sense. This is how he wants to treat you, and how he always will. If you marry him, it just makes it harder to leave. You think calling off the wedding is hard? Try getting a divorce.

At first he told you that he couldn't help himself, they were panic attacks. Then they were your fault - you're not listening, you're not behaving how you should. Then you tell him that, actually, you're not putting up with this anymore. Now he's seeking help - he's letting you have that little win, so that you can stay - but it's still your fault, too. Now he'll do a course, he'll try and change.

You know it's all rubbish. He's clinging on to your need to get married, and his ability to get to you emotionally with tears and false promises.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/06/2014 13:56

Sapphire - if you were my child, I would rather you postponed the wedding, or called it off altogether, than that you went ahead and married an abusive man.

The money would not matter one jot to me. If I couldn't cancel the flights and hotel, I would come over anyway, and would spend the time with you, helping you sort things out and move ahead with your life.

TypicaLibra · 12/06/2014 14:12

Sapphire, sorry you're going through this and are now at such a crossroads. My thoughts are that I find it really striking that not a single person on here is saying 'my DP / DH used to be abusive (either EA / PA or both), really regretted it, went on a DV course, doesn't do it any more, hasn't done so for years and years, and I now completely trust him'. In all the hundreds of people posting their experiences on this thread, if there was a reasonable likelihood of that you'd expect someone to have experienced it. Very depressing but extremely illuminating.

KERALA1 · 12/06/2014 14:13

I got out because I knew I could never bring children into the relationship and I really wanted to have children. That driver was a strong one for me even though I "loved" my abusive ex who could be put on a good boyfriend act. But I got to 30 and realised he wasn't father material dumped him and had my gorgeous girls with my fantastic husband. Who has never once not once in 12 years treated me other than lovingly. If you want a family you have no choice but to bail.

TheEponymousGrub · 12/06/2014 14:14

Sapphire - please forgive me for butting in when this is none of my business, but I desperately want you to realise something:

The door is now OPEN for you to be free of an unhappy relationship. On the other side is the rest of your life - including, probably, a happy relationship with a man you deserve.

Do not get pregnant now.

MooncupGoddess · 12/06/2014 14:18

It's great that he wants to change, but it is so hard to alter one's fundamental personality and way of approaching life. Lots of people try but just can't manage it.

Honestly - can you really say your marriage vows with meaning and conviction the way you're feeling now?

AreYouFeelingLucky · 12/06/2014 14:19

One last thought -

I can't imagine abusing my DP. The thought is horrifying. If I did, though, and I'd truly "seen the light"?

I'd come clean. I'd talk to his parents and explain what was happening, and I'd ask them to look after him while I got help. I'd be honest and frank with everyone, so that he'd have a full support network while I sorted myself out.

Then I'd move out and work on myself.

It'd be difficult, because I imagine that there would be no warm welcome from his family and friends afterwards, but it'd be the best way for DP. It'd make things open, ensure he got support, and give him people to talk too.

Then if I managed to sort myself out, I'd earn back everyone's trust -his, his parents, and his friends.

Asking him to keep it to himself would be depriving him of a support network, and furthering the self-centredness and abuse.

hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2014 14:19

Oh bless you - you really are clinging onto anything to ensure you can go ahead with this wedding.

I can clearly tell from your posts that you are going to be by his side while he tries to overcome his abusive nature.

You will marry him.

But here at MN there will always be support for you. Please do not be scared to come back for more advice when you need it.

Everyone will still be here and NO-ONE will say, I told you so.
We can't. So many on here have gone through with things we shouldn't have. This is why this is such a great support for you. You are hearing 1st hand what others have been through. You CAN learn from their mistakes.
If you don't, we will still be here to help and support you, no matter what!

processblue · 12/06/2014 14:22

Hi Sapphire. I've reset my password especially to send you this message. I've been a member of mumsnet since it first started. I've had a few user names but rarely post. But I have read an awful lot over the years, and without mumsnet truly believe I would still be married to an extrmemely abusive and violent man. My XH was abusive to me before we married and I had doubts before the wedding. But I was too ashamed to cancel and believed his tears and promises that things would change. I think I wanted to believe him, he seemed so genuinely remorseful at the time - but this was a huge mistake on my part. I also posted a couple of things on mumsnet but didn't want to believe what I was told - I think I thought I was the only one who could help him change.

Anyway, he didn't change, he actually got worse and worse, and over the following years I became a shadow of myself. We had two children and he got worse after each one arrived. We lived in fear and did anything and everything we could to appease him. Most of his anger was directed at me but he bullied the children too. Threatened to kill them, break their toys, put them in hospital, throw them down stairs, called them names etc etc. And the worse he got the more nervous we all were and the better behaved we all were, not that that stopped him being nasty.

I worried every single morning what mood he would wake up in, and every single day when I got home from work I would dread opening the front door. I would be giddy with relief if everything seemed OK. I stayed because he said if I left he would hunt me down and take the children away from me and that I was the crazy one not him. I believed him, he was so scary. And I doubted my own sanity to be honest.

Anyway, we left in the end and my children were in their early teens. Far more damage has been done to them than I realised at the time - because at the time it was all about survival. And that's no way to live as a child, especially when it's your father who is frightening you. Things eventually escalated and we went to a refuge in the end. The support workers said it was one of the worst cases of abuse they'd had - and do you know what I still didn't believe it! I do now - I've ready Lundy Bancroft (XH is on every page!), done the Freedom Programme, we've all had counselling etc and we are making progress.

People tell me it's not my fault, it was his responsibility etc etc but do you know what? I knew, I bloody well knew before I married him and I was too scared to do anything about it. And every time there is an issue with one of my children because of it I look and them and I know that really it is my fault that they have been so damaged.

I wish I had posted on mumsnet before I married him - I may just have listened and 'run for the hills'!

Sapphire - please, please, please do not marry this man. It cannot and will not end well. Please do not pretend to yourself that it will or bury your head in the sand about just what's at sake here i.e. your life, your sanity, your future.

Good luck, I wish you strength, and peace.

BeCool · 12/06/2014 14:23

If you do marry him, have DC and subsequently split up you will have to had your beloved DC over to him every second weekend - possibly more.

And you will have no choice but to trust he won't have "panic attacks" at them - it's horrible. And you won't be there with them when he does.

My DC love their Dad but the worst thing I feel now if I have chosen such a horrible person to be their father forever :(

BeCool · 12/06/2014 14:26

Oh process Flowers

I'm going to move away from MN for the rest of the day. This is all starting to make me feel too angry, sad and upset.

Will be back when I get a grip

hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2014 14:27

Gosh process that brought a tear to my eye.