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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
BeCool · 12/06/2014 12:19

It still shocks me how I was involved with XP for 7 years.

Despite seeing him rage at me from very early days. I made all the excuses, I dismissed so many warning signs. After all so much of the time he was fantastic. These rages must be a blip, or because of X or Y etc.

MN Relationship threads and the amazing posters in here really opened my eyes to see what was really going on. (differ username).

I'm intelligent, university educated, have a great job, professionally well regarded etc - but I am rubbish in relationships and my self esteem is all over the place. I was poorly parented, I never felt important etc and I think all these issues contribute as to they WHY I went along with this madness.

But truthfully the WHY's are still a mystery. Maybe I will never get to the bottom of it. But I don't have to because I KNOW it is wrong, I now KNOW I deserve to be treated with respect and care. I don't have to live life of eggshells wondering when Mr Lovely/Sweet/MyPartner would next explode into a verbally hideous rage about nothing, sulk for days, ruin family days out, sleep all day, ignore me, spit in my face etc. He was slowly moving towards being physical too - I could see the truth in "it escalates".

I also know HE CHOSE TO BE LIKE THAT! Sometimes I still don't want to believe it, but deep down I know. (Thank you Lundy Bancroft, AnyFucker & the rest of MN). I think this was the most important truth. When I accepted that HE CHOSE TO BE LIKE THAT freedom and wanting to be out of the relationship quickly followed.

Sapphire maybe it would be useful for you to focus on that truth? You've been fed this 'panic attack' bullshit for so long now and you've believed it. Focus on knowing, feeling and believing that your P has a choice in this awful behaviour towards you and he actually chooses to treat you this way. It's a mind blowing powerful truth when it hits home.

We have minimal contact these days - I saw him briefly last night and he was really lovely and sweet with the girls. We have been apart 1.5 years and in some ways I still love him and feel a pull towards him. But I'll never go back there because I know it's about something inside of me projecting qualities onto him that he doesn't have. I KNOW he has major issues that I CAN'T FIX. They are his.

It still makes me sad (sometimes) that he never even tried to deal with these issues - he never sought help. Fact remains he would rather throw away our family, our relationship and what was often a lovely life, than seek help, acknowledge his problems, change and treat me as an equal and with respect. He would rather blame me. There is nothing I can do about that.

What I can control, what I can do is keep myself and my DC out of this dreadful place with him. Fix myself, build myself up again. Restore my sanity and work on a new normal. maybe one day even want to be with another person who isn't batshitcrazy with rage and violence towards me, but who can respect me and be equal with me.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 12/06/2014 12:20

And how many times have you told him it's unacceptable, abusive, hurtful etc before? And he's minimised it, blamed you and blamed his mental health? What has changed now?
If it's that he believes you to be serious for the first time then that doesn't represent a genuine shift IMO, it means he's panicking and trying a different tack to keep you there.

BravePotato · 12/06/2014 12:26

Are you going to wait for him to really hurt you properly, before you split up?

Do you feel it is your duty to rescue him? To stay with him when the rest of the world gives up on him?

Do you think you deserve to be treated like this?

DO you think this is in any way normal acceptable behaviour?

OxfordBags · 12/06/2014 12:27

So he has gone from years of abusing you, and insisting that he can't stop it and that it's all your fault, to 2 days of alleged remorse? And that proves absolutely fucking what... ?

Sweetheart, it did not take you issuing an ultimatum to get him to see the light. Part of his abuse is making you feel like you've saved him, like only you have understood him, that without you he'd never have realised this, and that he needs you to help him. BULLSHIT. It's all part of the hysterical bonding process of abuse (that's a proper term, look it up). He's just making you responsible for his behaviour in a new way, ie he can and will only behave well if you stay with him.

If he actually genuinely believed any of his words for a second, then he would end the relationship immediately. He would feel so ashamed of himself and so scared by the apparent sudden realisation (yeah, right!) that he abuses you, that he would not trust himself to be around you, and would want to protect you from him. He'd also be able to see that you and him are a toxic mix. If he wanted to change, and if he really loved you, he would stay away, even if just for the duration of the course. To paraphrase Lweji, you don't treat alcoholism by giving an alcoholic a beer with every meal.

He's gained bugger all self-awareness, because the very fact that he doesn't act like with anyone but you PROVES that he's all too aware that it's unexcusable, and that he's choosing to do it to you. What he has become aware of is that he's pushed you a bit too far and now he has to pull out the grand gestures to trick you into staying, and he's onviously motivated to keep his victim by his side.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:27

@BeCool - so sorry to hear that and glad things are better for you now. You mention ''He never even tried to deal with these issues - he never sought help. Fact remains he would rather throw away our family, our relationship and what was often a lovely life, than seek help, acknowledge his problems, change and treat me as an equal and with respect. He would rather blame me.'' The hope I am clinging to is that my partner IS now seeking help and acknowledging his problems and responsibility.

@EhricLovesTheBhrothers - yes I have told him too many times, you are right. But what's changed now is that he seems to acknowledge the truth now - it is ABUSE not PANIC or STRESS. He recognises he needs very specific help, that anger management or panic attack help is not the thing he needs. It is this shift in his thinking, which I believe to be genuine, that I am holding onto.

OP posts:
Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:29

@Oxfordbags this really struck a chord:

''He's gained bugger all self-awareness, because the very fact that he doesn't act like with anyone but you PROVES that he's all too aware that it's unexcusable, and that he's choosing to do it to you. What he has become aware of is that he's pushed you a bit too far and now he has to pull out the grand gestures to trick you into staying, and he's onviously motivated to keep his victim by his side.''

OP posts:
BeCool · 12/06/2014 12:31

@Sapphire - do YOU believe/feel/know/acknowledge he chooses to treat you the way he does?

OxfordBags · 12/06/2014 12:33

How long did you hold onto the hope the last time he said he'd realised it was unacceptable and made weak attempts to get help, then dropped it all as soon as you were sucked in again? How long did you believe it was genuine for then?

How many 'shifts of thinking' are you going to delude yourself with? How many rationalisations are you going to bullshit your future children with, until you see the damage in them? How are you going to teach them to accept and excuse their mother being abused, possibly them being abused too (certainly just the knowledge of what he is like would emotionally abuse them)?
What do you think your next lie to yourself will be, to justify being abused? He is clearly escalating, and he'll need more soon than just these fake 'panic attacks' to get his kicks from.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2014 12:34

"It is this shift in his thinking, which I believe to be genuine, that I am holding onto"

But why?. Its a slim hope isn't it. And what if you are wrong. Have you thought about that distinct possibility or is reality too damn nasty for you to really contemplate and or face. You've invested a lot emotionally into this, likely far more than he has but the damage here has already been done.

You perhaps also feel like you can barely trust you own judgment, he has made you feel that way over many years. Can you truly believe anything he says now?.

What were you like before you were unfortunate enough to hook up with this person?.

ouryve · 12/06/2014 12:34

You can un-book a wedding, even the day before.

You can't unbreak a nose. You can never completely heal the emotional scarring caused by living with someone you have good reason to be afraid of.

Even if he kept his violent "panic attacks" under control for 2, or even 5 years, what happens when, after a week of no sleep with a small baby with reflux, he can no longer control himself? What will happen when he has a toddler going through the terrible twos, breaking his things, whining, even screaming? What will he do when he has a 9 year old trying to assert their individuality? What would happen if you became physically frail, for some reason, and needed an equal partner who could care for you and take on extra household responsibilities without spitting his dummy out?

Do you really want to be spending your life worrying about these things? Never being quite sure when he will next erupt?

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:34

@BeCool yes I do. I know it is a choice he has, he keeps his self control with others and behaves abusively to me. I think he is gaining this understanding too - surely people can? - and is truly motivated to sort it out.

OP posts:
CookieMonsterIsHot · 12/06/2014 12:35

Why not cancel the wedding so you can concentrate on whether he changes or not?

Hundreds of MNers have told you why you should not marry him in 2 months 3 weeks time.

Can you explain your reasons for continuing with the wedding plans? I understand why you want to stay with him. You love him and you hope he will change. But the wedding is a totally different thing surely? Why continue with that

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:36

@ouryve - just to clarify he's no longer considering them 'panic attacks'. I truly believe that.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2014 12:37

He acts like this also because he can.

All that anger management courses will teach him (and I doubt very much he will a) attend and b) even if he does attend will attend the entire course length) is how to further cover up his future abuses of you.

There are none as blind as those who will not see.

SauceForTheGander · 12/06/2014 12:38

The bottom line is you lose nothing by waiting a year. If his love and commitment to change are as he describes you will be in an even better place in 12 months. This isn't about a wedding day. This is about marriage.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:39

@attilathemeerkat - I know there's a lot been said on here so just to clarify things have changed a bit since the anger management class idea. It is now a domestic violence perpetrator programme that he'll be doing. 3 individual sessions then group work.

OP posts:
Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 12:40

@Sauceforthegander - true! But what can I tell my parents, who have already paid for flights and accommodation? I don't want to tell them everything because if I do go through with it in a year with things improved, I don't think they'd believe me or support me.

OP posts:
Lweji · 12/06/2014 12:41

go on a holiday with your parents!

mistlethrush · 12/06/2014 12:41

What did the Counsellor say to you about this?

Can you go back to see the same Counsellor and get some more feedback?

ouryve · 12/06/2014 12:43

You tell your parents that you have realised that the relationship is toxic, he is abusive and that you don't want to marry someone who will abuse you.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 12/06/2014 12:45

Could you tell your parents that there are some issues that need working through, without going into specifics, Sapphire?

And even if you do have to tell them the whole truth, would that not be easier than telling them that you had doubts before the wedding, that your fiance was doing a domestic violence perpetrator programme because of his abusive behaviour to you, and you still went ahead and married him, but the abuse has continued, so now you are having to get a divorce?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2014 12:46

Sapphire,

Its not enough however, nowhere near enough. He may well behave for a short period of time but the underlying issues which gave him a right and entitlement to be violent towards you remain. He would have behaved the same regardless of whom he got together with.

This person needs YEARS of therapy and even then violent men do not do well in therapy. You cannot and must not be at all in his life during that time.

If you marry this man, you will be making the biggest mistake of your entire life. Many threads on Relationships show many differences of opinion in reply to the original poster; this one of yours shows a common consensus. We cannot all be wrong.

SauceForTheGander · 12/06/2014 12:49

Sapphire - when I called off my wedding I told my mum the reasons (arguments, fights, unhappy) - her response was to say disapprovingly "well life isn't like Hollywood movies you know" - which tells you all you need to know as to why I was even contemplating marrying someone who was utterly unreliable and shagging other women!

This is your life. Only you have to live it. You are the most important person in your life story. You deserve to be happy. I don't know what this wedding is like or what your parents are like but I do know there are always solutions.

You sound lovely - you're worried about rocking the boat and upsetting people but those that really matter would want you to do what's right for you.

You don't have to make a decision this minute. Do a week without talking to your fiancé. Start there. Clear your head and be your own best friend.

DenzelWashington · 12/06/2014 12:51

what can I tell my parents, who have already paid for flights and accommodation

Hand on heart, what do you think your parents would rather do: support you in this situation and lose some money; or have you bury it and deal with it alone because you don't want them to lose out on flights and accommodation?

No need to tell me on the thread, it's just something for you to consider.

DocMcStuffinsBigBookOfOuches · 12/06/2014 12:51

Sapphire, in the car, on the way to my wedding, my father took my hand and said "we can just go to the pub instead if you want". I so wish I had taken him up on that offer. Instead, I felt too guilty at how much money had been spent by other people, how much time other people had given up, what other people would think if I failed to show up for my own wedding.

I went to the wedding, married a man I shouldn't have, and endured four and a half years of abuse. All because I felt too guilty.

When I finally left him, I mentioned a little of what I had felt at the time of the wedding to my parents. Their comment was "we would happily have paid three times over to avoid you going through that".

It's nearly seventeen years since I left. I am going to counselling currently to work through some of the many issues I still have from being married, and having children with, an abusive man.

When I am sitting with my counsellor I cry a lot and ask "why did I marry a man who I already had doubts about?"

Please be kind to yourself.