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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
Sillylass79 · 12/06/2014 09:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairylea · 12/06/2014 09:07

You do realise abusers are often charmers? They charm their way back in, manipulate you into believing them and the repeat the abusive behaviour. That is what is happening here.

Would you want your child to stay in this relationship?

Toapointlordcopper · 12/06/2014 09:10

It's easy to cancel a wedding. Tell everyone it felt as if you were being swept up with events and you need to take some time out to concentrate on and strengthen your relationship and are very sorry that people have been negatively affected, and that it is probable that any future wedding will be just a small private close family matter as you both now appreciate that a wedding is about the marriage and the commitment for life, and relationships takes ongoing time and effort to work on.

Scrupulously true, and you don't need to elaborate further than this. And you can then end the relationship at a later stage, should you decide this is the right thing to do.

AllThatGlistens · 12/06/2014 09:11

If you don't cancel this wedding and tell your family, you're minimising and excusing what he's done.

You're afraid that if you tell your family then you will have to admit the severity of his actions, because they won't be in denial and you'll have to face that.

They won't want you living with someone that abuses you, and its the knowledge of that, that is so hard for you to face up to right now.

But they are right, I speak as someone with experience who thankfully escaped whilst I was still very young.

Be strong, and think carefully. Planning a wedding is a joyous thing. The stark reality of life in an abusive marriage is never, ever worth the fleeting excitement of a wedding day.

Flowers
SmashleyHop · 12/06/2014 09:15

You know why they won't want to support it though Sapphire- because it's unwise!! It is unwise to marry someone with these kinds of issues. I know because I did it. You shouldn't have to hide things about your partner to your closest family members and friends.

I would go on and say that what your wedding plans symbolize was what you imagined your future to be, not the reality. That happy future and good relationship is what you wanted, but sadly it's not what you were actually living or would have ended up with. Let that go- because once you do you can open yourself up to actually having all that for real! Not "Oh once he completes the DV program a happy life what we will have." I mean, just try saying that sentence out loud to yourself. It's sounds silly.

I think it's great if he really wants to go do the program- I think he needs to do it single. I think you'd find whoever runs this program would agree. Maybe you should call them and talk to them, not just trust his word on it.

CheeseandPickledOnion · 12/06/2014 09:27

Please cancel the wedding for the time being. I've just got out of an abusive relationship and you don't understand how much he's still controlling you. You need to take the wedding out of the picture for now.

cestlavielife · 12/06/2014 09:51

the wedding plans were just a dream. getting married wont make a good relationship no matter how much this idea is paraded.
being married does not mean he will change.
getting married wont change a thing.

stinkingbishop · 12/06/2014 09:58

Just cancel the bloomin' wedding! Honestly if you were my RL friend I would be metaphorically shaking you into waking up!

With the wedding out of the picture you can concentrate on the here and now without it clouding things. And whether he is right or wrong for you. And HE can concentrate on the DV course without the fact he's getting married regardless allowing him to minimise it to himself and his peers/facilitator (sorry I'll be off on honeymoon for 2 weeks, see I told you I wasn't a real abuser, can't be if she's waltzing up the aisle, can I).

As others have said, you're scared of telling your family because they will confirm to you what you know deep down that this is BAD. They wouldn't want you to go ahead because they love you and they can fast forward the tape in their heads to you turning up on the doorstep, half dressed, covered in bruises, with their grandchildren in the same state.

You will get married at some Sapphire. It will be the wedding of your dreams. You'll allow yourself to feel nothing but joy. The butterflies in your tummy will be excitement, not fear. You WILL wear a beautiful dress. Everyone will have a lovely time. You'll have amazing hair. The honeymoon will be bliss. But now, and not to this man. He's already ruined the build up and the day for you. If you let him, he'll ruin the marriage, and your life, too.

As soon as you say the word to one RL friend or family member, honestly, they will crowd round you like particularly loving hens. Everyone will understand. Everyone will think you brave and clear headed and just want to do everything they can to protect and soothe you.

PLEASE listen to the hundreds of us on here who are saying we made the wrong decision in the same situation. Love is not like this. It shouldn't be this difficult and painful. That's a silly romantic myth painted by films and poems and ballads. That myth is inherently juvenile; Romeo and Juliet have a lot to answer for. A loving relationship is not a trial; it's peaceful and supportive and is what gives you the strength to face the trials of the world OUTSIDE your relationship, together.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 10:05

being married does not mean he will change. Getting married wont change a thing.

Actually, it will probably change. For worst!!!

Get the hell out.

OxfordBags · 12/06/2014 10:05

You know they wouldn't support you marrying or being in a relationship with a man who abuses you BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T BE MARRYING OR IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN WHO ABUSES YOU.

You are asking the people who genuinely love and care about you to support you in being abused. Would you do that to someone you loved? What sort of freak or shitbag would give their blessing to a loved one or friend being abused?!

You must get over your wedding plan obsession and understand that you have been using it as an emotional crutch and a tool of escape: planning and focusing on the wedding is allowing you to ignore and overlook and therefore deal with, his abuse, and also letting you delude yourself that things will magically get better once the ring is on your finger. Understand this: existing abuse always gets WORSE once you marry your abuser. They feel like they really own you then.

A wedding is essentially a massive party. You are willing to allow yourself to be abused, and possibly have children who will suffer and be damaged for life, just because you're enjoying planning a big party, and it's giving you an emotional escape from abuse.

A wedding leads to a marriage: a relationship where you will grown ever more legally and situationally entangled with your abuser. What you are actually planning is a continuation and worsening of being abused.

You have been abused, you are being abused, and you will continue to be abused, all because you're clinging to a fantasy. If you remove the abuse aspect rom this scenario, the fact that you are like this means you are not actually ready to get married to anyone.

As for the 10 week course, do you really think that TEN weeks is enough to even start helping an abuser?!?! Come on now, don't be silly.

Lweji · 12/06/2014 10:11

I think you should stop talking to him, get away for a couple of weeks and reassess what you want with a clear mind and without his pressure or charm.

Distance yourself from him so that you can see the whole thing as objectively as possible.

I totally get where you are and how emotionally charged it can be. How big a blow it is to realise that your best plans of happiness are just smoke.
Sadly, I realised it as soon as the honeymoon as I almost split with him then, but I felt I had got hooked.
You do not have to suffer it. You can walk away not.

And be in no doubt that the best thing for you is to get rid of this man. You know your family would be against staying with him, we are all urging you to leave him.
More importantly, you know that you shouldn't be with him.

What on earth is making you stay?

Lweji · 12/06/2014 10:12

And you have absolutely no idea about what he has talked about with the people he has seen.
Do you even know he has been to see them?

mystifiedNanof1 · 12/06/2014 10:17

has he had his thyroid checked? My DD at 27 has Graves disease which is a dysfunctional thyroid in which she will have uncontrollable rage, she is not able to be reasoned with when she is like this, and she cannot change or alter her behaviour when in the middle of it.
Having said that, blocking you while you are attempting to leave the room is a control issue as he is larger than you and able to "herd" you where he wants to.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/06/2014 10:19

"getting married wont change a thing."

I'd qualify that by saying that, whilst getting married won't change his behaviour, it will change your status. Right now you're an independent young woman with a (let's be charitable) 'troubled' boyfriend/fiancé. Your ties to him are relatively slight and it would be pretty easy and inexpensive to go your separate ways. Once you're married (at huge expense no doubt) you are legally joined. Abusive behaviour tends to get worse when someone feels they can act with impunity ... that they are 'safe'. Getting out of a marriage is rather more complicated than walking out of a cohabitation.

You're worried now thinking about the reaction of others if you cancel the wedding and if they find out about the DV. In six months' time when nothing has changed you'll have the added pressure of knowing that people bought gifts and outfits, maybe travelled a long way to wish you well.... and you'll be even more hamstrung by guilt

Icimoi · 12/06/2014 10:25

The wedding is introducing a further pressure point for both of you that you do not need. You know that you are not going to enjoy it with these big question marks over everything. Therefore I'm afraid it does make sense to cancel it and put it off for at least a year.

FairPhyllis · 12/06/2014 10:44

Of course a wedding midway through or just after a DV course isn't appropriate. I am absolutely horrified you cannot see that. Your thinking has become very distorted if you can't recognise that.

Of course your family and friends won't support the relationship if they knew it was abusive. That's because an abusive relationship is not deserving of support!

I would be absolutely horrified if I were one of your family or friends, if I found out years down the line that I'd been duped into supporting a marriage which was known by you to have had abuse in it from the start.

Look, it's good that he is looking into the DV programme. But from this point on, that's something he is doing for himself and his own future, not for your relationship. Because your relationship just needs to be over, for your own safety and healing.

Please get some individual counselling for yourself and work out why you are behaving so self-destructively. You sound like you are sleep walking into this.

mistlethrush · 12/06/2014 10:47

What did the Counsellor say to you specifically - apart from the fact that they wouldn't see you together?

NettleTea · 12/06/2014 10:57

I married my abuser. I think I even knew it was a mistake but didnt want to look a fool in front of people by admitting Id made a big mistake. I made excuses and blamed x. y and z but in the end it was actually him. It got worse, though he never hit me. I had a child and he promised to try. tears and everything.
He didnt. It got worse.

After I left he went to the next woman. Terrified her so much with his behaviour that she had to do a midnight flit.

The next one he did hit. Put her in hospital 3 times and threw her down the stairs to make her abort. I saw the bruises. She believed he would change. He got therapy. He didnt, he just got more clever about how he worded stuff, justified his actions by quoting psychobabble.

When my daughter was 6 she had to hide in the bathroom while he wealded a knife outside because he didnt like what the gf had said.

Now he hasnt seen his other child for nearly a year because he is scared of him too. My DD only has supervised.

The stories have different actors but the script is the same. An abuser is an abuser. Whatever drives their abuse is so ingrained that they cannot help it and you cannot help them by sticking with them or loving them more. They feel an entitlement to behave the way they do. They dont change.

cestlavielife · 12/06/2014 11:10

it's true...getting married will more than likely make things even worse for op. and harder to disentangle.

but op (people) want to believe that somehow if you get married and declare love it will make it all ok. government/daily mail peddle the idea that marriage automatically equals warm stable loving relationship just thru getting married... clearly it does not; if the underlying factors are bad.

leave.

have a party for you for your 30th. a big heart-warming celebration of your life party. take yourself on a fab holiday. you can have the party, a lovely new dress, a fab holiday - without marrying this man.

crazyboots · 12/06/2014 11:10

Hi Sapphire - talking about this happy life you thought you were living and the fact that you have found your way onto Mumsnet makes me think that children may be very much on your mind. Be very very honest if not here, with yourself. Are you thinking about having children ? If so becomes a very different issue, its not about him or you or you and him.

DenzelWashington · 12/06/2014 11:16

I don't know how to tell people especially my family. If I put it on hold due to DV they'll never again support me to go back to him or resume the wedding plans.

Good for them, they sound great. And yes, once you tell them it will all become real. And once you see their horrified reaction you will have to face who your fiance really is.

I don't think you are a total idiot, by the way, far from it. I do think you have functioned by holding on to hope and the fantasy of a happy marriage for so long it is too frightening for you to give up.

I know it is easy for me to say, but please try not to feel ashamed or stupid because you find yourself in this position. You are not stupid and have done nothing shameful. Please contact a family member and tell them what is going on. I think you have been rather beaten down by it all and are probably not seeing clearly how much RL love and support there will be for you once you tell people.

BeCool · 12/06/2014 11:23

My abuser, "wonderful in so many ways most of the time", was screaming at me, berating me, belittling me, being aggressive towards me about some slight or offence I had caused him (can't recall what but it's really irrelevant) when I was IN LABOUR with DD2. I was completely dependent on him to get DD1 to our sitter, get me to the hospital etc and he is screaming at me and spitting with rage about some offence I had caused him.

OMG - I stayed with him for 1.5 years after that. I was deluded, in denial, feeling helpless like I couldn't do it on my own etc etc etc. But I did, I can and I am. And it is wonderful being out of that crappy crappy world of his/ours.

I'll never forgive him for blighting my DD's birth like that.

I thank fuck each and every day I never married him and I no longer live with him. It becomes normal. We minimise and think it's OK, or not really OK but only happening x% of the time. We tell ourselves he had a hard life/tough time for X, Y & Z reasons. We don't let ourselves admit that it's not normal and we don't deserve to live like this. And we find it very hard to see how each and every day we get a little more ground down, and the self doubt increases, and the one day you realise you are actually living a really shitty life and you don't know how it happened.

Sapphire you are getting a major wake up call, reality check and a free pass out of a future of abuse, tension, self doubt and grief.

BeCool · 12/06/2014 11:24

Sapphire I'm not an idiot either, you are not an idiot.

I did make some poor choices in my relationships though.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 11:27

I feel so emotional reading all this. I am overwhelmed by your support and not meaning to be pig headed about it. I just feel I am at the biggest crossroads of my life.

I may sound like a mug but I believe he truly wants to change and is committed to doing everything to ensure that happens. I really want that too.

Even if we postpone the wedding by a year, how does that prove the course has worked? Will there ever be proof? Something could always happen tomorrow but do we postpone for ever?

I am clinging to hope and wondering if the fact these DV courses exist means they do have some success rate?

OP posts:
DenzelWashington · 12/06/2014 11:31

Actually, I really would not think about how things might be a year from now. Postpone the wedding because it is a massive, distorting pressure for both of you that you need to get rid of. Then take things as they come for a bit.