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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
DustBunnyFarmer · 11/06/2014 21:08

There's a reason brides are sometimes referred to as Bridezillas - some women get really caught up in planning their big day. That isn't important, it really isn't. It's the months and years that follow which matter. Please don't marry this man - you will be repenting at your leisure. There will be a chance for another wedding in future, I'm sure - one without the threat of domestic violence hanging over your future.

Sillylass79 · 11/06/2014 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Littletigers · 11/06/2014 21:50

Sorry to wade in late but panic attacks my arse!!! I've had them many a time and never behaved like this man.
DO NOT marry him- get away. Marry him in a couple of years after he's done the dv programme- MAYBE.
If you really love him, let him do the work he so badly needs to do and in the meantime be by yourself. You might find you love yourself more, and see the need to live a happier life away from him.

DarrellRivers · 11/06/2014 22:21

Don't marry him
Read some of the other threads in Relationships to see how your life is going to pan out if you do decide to marry him

EssexMummy123 · 11/06/2014 22:30

Sapphire - I think you are being very brave, I have spent years and years of my life in relationships that are less than ideal but I wasn't clued up and brave enough to evaluate what was going on and follow through on acting on my best interests.

Opinion wise i can only echo what everyone else has said, and i'd like to add a reading recommendation Robin Norwood's 'Women who love to much' www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Who-Love-Too-Much-ebook/dp/B003YL44FY/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1402522202&sr=1-1&keywords=women+who+love+too+much

SmashleyHop · 11/06/2014 22:43

I really feel for you- this all must be so overwhelming and that fact that all of us agree on this is testament to how important it is that you keep yourself safe. It's great he plans to go to a DV course- he needs it. Hopefully he will gain insight to why he treated you this way.

I really hope you can see this as a way for you both to get a fresh start. The Freedom program sounds great, have you looked into it at all? Or maybe picking up one of those books previous posters have mentioned? This is a time for you to be selfish- no kids, just yourself to worry about.

It was so hard to leave my ex with our son. Even though he's not been in touch since there is still the possibility that my son might want to reach out to his dad. I will forever be tied to this sad excuse for a man because I chose to marry and have a child with someone I knew had deep issues. I thought he just needed support and someone who believed in him. I thought I could prove everyone wrong- I was the one who was wrong. Now I'm paying for it. Don't end up like me. Do yourself and him a huge favor and make a clean break so you both can heal.

EverythingCounts · 11/06/2014 23:03

The time planning and anticipating hasn't been wasted as there will be a chance to use it some other time. It would be far worse to get married under a cloud like this. Please postpone if you haven't already. You have come so far, be brave and take that next step.

lovemenot · 11/06/2014 23:51

Dear OP,

Can you advise my friend. She is 29 and engaged to be married. Her fiancé is not very nice to her, in fact he pinned her down on the bed and wouldn't let her up. She was pretty scared. He then wouldn't let her leave the room, started banging his head and crying and ripping his clothes off. This terrifies her but she doesn't know how to handle it. She wants to help him but she has tried before and nothing really changed. He says it's a panic attack but in her heart she knows he is trying to control her. She told him that he made her feel frightened and vulnerable....but he says it's her fault for not listening to him enough. She tried to tell him that it must never happen again but he says he can't promise it won't. They went to counselling and he now says he's going to go to some sort of domestic violence counselling. I think she is still going to marry him. I'm so scared that she is thinking of marrying a man who commits domestic violence. What do you think?

NutellaLawson · 12/06/2014 04:36

Let me fast forward a few years:

You marry him because you don't think his actions are malice. Plus he has promised to get help and things have improved recently.

It's 7 years later and you have a 3 and a 5 year old. Things escalated dramatically during the last part of the pregnancy and right after birth. He doesn't handle stress very well so you have been doing whatever you can to shield him from the strain. The leaflets in the pregnancy test packets are right to include domestic violence information. He really couldn't handle your being pregnant. Excited one minute, scary violent the next.

But the dc are older now. He's a great dad so long as no one upsets him and the children make no noise and their toys aren't left out. You'd never actually leave him alone with the dc though, as he can be short fused with them.

Last week though the dc said they were scared of daddy when he held you head against the wall. Your little girl became subdued when he threatened to throw her down the stairs because she had unravelled the toilet roll.
It takes another two years of things getting very much worse before you actually leave. It took two attempts because you caved to his tears and promises. But now you're free.

Except the courts give him access to the dc. He kept his panic attacks to when in private so you just look like the crazy ex when you say he can be dangerous. Everytime you drop the dc off to stay with him you fear for them. Dc1 has begun saying she is scared of daddy. Your heart breaks for her but the courts insist he has access. Dc1 doesn't want to stop seeing daddy because that would leave dc2 alone with him each weekend.

You're not sure he'd harm them . he only ever threatened to to make you pay attention, to how much he was hurting I inside. But the dc have heard him makes these threats and worry daddy might flip on them.

The above is not dissimilar to my background. I was Dc1. Marry this man and you inflict horror on your future children - who have no say in how long you stick it out.

DustBunnyFarmer · 12/06/2014 06:41

What a sobering post, Nutella. I hope the OP is still reading.

Littletigers · 12/06/2014 06:51

nutella :(
OP, please, take care.

captainmummy · 12/06/2014 08:12

Nutella Sad

OR, sapphire, you stay with this man because he 'loves the dc' and you 'love him' and 'he's not like that 90% of the time' and 'where would I go' and 'I've given it 6years and don't like to give up' and 'I would be too embarrassed to cancel the wedding split up the family'

All excuses for staying with a violent man. And inflicting Nutellas upbringing, childhood, on the children.

It is a real possibility. He is NO different to any other bully. Don't make the mistake of thinking he is.

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 08:22

Things feel like they've moved on a bit.... He's committing (of his own volition) to doing a DV course which is 10 weeks to 1 yr long. We had a long talk for hours and I have still not fully agreed to go ahead with the wedding. I told him we still have a lot of thinking and talking to do about whether a wedding would be appropriate midway through DV course. For the first time I feel he's really realised how severe things have got and that he's got a real problem. He's no longer blaming me or saying it wasn't that bad, and seems fully committed to showing me he will change. I've told him the DV course must have a 100% success rate for him, not even a single slip up. At the moment I'm just mulling things over, not yet fully agreeing to the wedding or showing much affection. I still feel shaken & am more distanced, eg letting him cry and telling him I've heard the promises and sorrys enough times, only action is enough. Yesterday he spoke to Relate, Respect and his friend which I think was a bit of a wake up call.

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 12/06/2014 08:33

We had a long talk for hours and I have still not fully agreed to go ahead with the wedding. I told him we still have a lot of thinking and talking to do about whether a wedding would be appropriate midway through DV course.

It's really really not appropriate.

OxfordBags · 12/06/2014 08:35

Talk is cheap. Promising to make big changes, especially ones involving him talking about himself (his favourite topic) are classic abuser moves. The grand gestures of the abuser.

You know, don't you, that the failure rate for men attending DV courses is almost 100%? And that whether it really is a success for him will be measured by years, decades, a lifetime? If he doesn't abuse you during the course, or for a bit afterwards, that is not a success. That is just him not feeling the need or urge to abuse you YET. However, I predict that he won't even go st all, there'll be some excuse, or he'll drop out fairly quickly and bullshit and scare you into accepting that.

That any woman would write words along the lines of 'I'm not sure if I'm going to marry him whilst he's doing his domestic violence course' is absolutely fucked-up. What you MUST say, is 'I'm not marrying him because he commits domestic violence'.

Carry on with this relationship if your own personal issues from childhood mean that you believe you don't deserve better (I am so sorry that you were so damaged to think this is normal or okay for a second), but always keep in mind that if and when you have children, you will be choosing to create children for him to damage for life. Do not delude yourself for one second that they would not witness, or pick up on, him being like this to you, or being like it to them, and be destroyed for life, going on to be future victims or abusers.

You also need extensive therapy yourself, because you must have a lot of damage to stay with him, and what he does to you has been adding further damage all the time.

Sillylass79 · 12/06/2014 08:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kalidanger · 12/06/2014 08:47

I'm sorry darling but they haven't moved on, he's just changed tack.

A year long course to stop being abusive to you? A year?

Sapphire18 · 12/06/2014 08:56

I don't know it is a full year. He spoke to the people who run it, not me. I know he's mentioned a ten wk option so maybe it's that. I'm so afraid people on here and in real life think I'm a total idiot. If we postpone the wedding during the DV programme I don't know when we'll have seen the results and be ok to put the wedding back on. It's not like there's a time frame to prove the results. I don't know how to tell people especially my family. If I put it on hold due to DV they'll never again support me to go back to him or resume the wedding plans. I know it sounds petty talking about wedding plans but those plans symbolise so much, not least of all the happy future and good relationship I thought I was living.

OP posts:
Obstacles · 12/06/2014 08:57

I think cancelling the wedding is key. You have built it up so much in your mind but when cancelled you will be free to think about whether it is really what you want or whether you are just struggling to change path because for so many reasons you feel committed.

I stayed with an emotionally unstable and abusive partner for far too long because he had made me feel responsible for him but also because we lived together and I thought it wouldn't be easy to rent by myself.

You don't have to make a big thing of the wedding cancellation. Tell your closest people the truth or even that "you seem to want different things at the moment" and tell everyone it's off for practical or financial reasons.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 12/06/2014 08:59

DV perpetrators courses are very long it's true. Sadly men Often complete them then are found not to have made sufficient or genuine progress. You absolutely must not marry him before he has completed the programme, and you must move out and live separate lives while he is completing it if it has a hope in hell of working.
Carrying on your relationship would be like an alcoholic trying to detox and get treatment while carrying on drinking.
(Not that I'm equating DV with alcoholism just comparing the treatment)

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 12/06/2014 09:00

Courses round here are 26 weeks with ongoing support for up to 26 further weeks so it's possible. 10 weeks is not sufficient.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/06/2014 09:03

" If I put it on hold due to DV they'll never again support me to go back to him or resume the wedding plans."

Your 'future and good relationship' is non-existent at the moment sadly. However much you want it to be otherwise and however optimistic you want to be about his attendance of a DV course, your future is essentially 'more of the same'. That's the prognosis. If you've been keeping this behaviour secret all this time because you don't want others to spoil your fantasy that's valid enough, but there always comes a point where reality bites and there are consequences.

Yes, once you tell people the truth that's it... game over. But that's because DV is such a terrible and dangerous thing and not because your family and friends want you to be unhappy.

Sillylass79 · 12/06/2014 09:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummytime · 12/06/2014 09:05

"I know it sounds petty talking about wedding plans but those plans symbolise so much, not least of all the happy future and good relationship I thought I was living."
But that wasn't real was it? You need to grieve for the relationship and future you thought you had. BUT I don't think it is good for either of you to stay together - you will be stopping him dealing with his issues (if that is what he is really going to do). You will be stopping yourself moving on and making a happy future.

Please at least find yourself some individual counselling.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2014 09:05

"I know it sounds petty talking about wedding plans but those plans symbolise so much, not least of all the happy future and good relationship I thought I was living".

Wedding plans do not symbolise a whole marriage and I think that if you were to marry him you will not survive long term within it.

You've been fooled by a consummate liar; he is lying to himself as much as yourself. Domestic violence perpetrator courses have little to no success; what some men learn from these courses is how to be more careful in future. A 10 week course (that's not even three months) is in no way even scratching the very surface of years and years of damage done by others to get him to the stage he is at now where he thinks it is okay to abuse you.

What is his own family background like btw?. That can give clues.

Do not lie to your own self any more. See him for what he really is and cancel the wedding.

What did you yourself learn about relationships when growing up Sapphire?. What example did your own parents set?.