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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
NettleTea · 11/06/2014 14:21

Surely him saying without prompting from me that he is going to get the anger management help, and actually doing it, is a good thing?

well this tack worked before, so of course he will say it again. But the therapy didnt work, did it, not in the long run. In fact it got worse. The more he thinks he has 'got' you the worse the abuse will be because he is relying on you not wanting to face up to it and walk away - youve already said how devastating it will be to tell people you are not getting married.

This isnt a panic attack, its not an anger problem, its abuse. He even says its because he cant communicate with you. In his mind thats what he believes, its communication. What it comes out with is he gets absusively furious when you dont listen and agree. Communication means persuading you he is right, and you listening and accepting that he is right.

He got worse when you moved in together, Im guessing it cranked up a notch again when you got engaged. Now, 3 months before the wedding he doesnt think you will pull out and off he goes again. The poo-ey coffee is getting pooeyer. Once married thats a harder step to take. A couple of kids you are looking at a cup of shit with an occassional grain of sugar.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 11/06/2014 14:24

I have worked with young people with genuine 'anger management' (emotional intensity disorder) issues. They literally cannot control their emotions. They rant at their children's social worker outside court. They tell theur teachers to fuck off. They cant hold down a job. Its not person specific the way abusive behaviour is.

NettleTea · 11/06/2014 14:24

Yes, in many cases they actually cant help it. Being 'defied' by someone they view as a supporting role in their life just blows a fuse in them. Its habitual and so deeply ingrained, usually from childhood, that it takes years to work through.
The abusive behaviour often has benefits to them - they get things all their own way, and so there is very little motivation to actually put in all the hard work, especially if the future means that life may end up harder for them.

AnyFucker · 11/06/2014 14:25

Sapphire I feel really badly for you. The fact you are still here and engaging with us is testament to how well you are doing and I can almost feel your perception shifting bit by bit. Many women would cut and run when forced to face how bad things really are and have their denial punctured quite so effectively. However, you knew something was badly wrong, that is why you made the big step to post here and lay it all open.

Knowing what you know now, you really really must at the very least postpone your wedding. You know it would be highly foolish and damaging to go ahead, and that you will regret it if you do.

Please do not throw away this illuminating chink into your future we have helped you to face. Many women haven't had this chance to seriously reflect on what a mistake they will be making before it is too late. It is not too late for you.

Mandatorymongoose · 11/06/2014 15:02

Domestic violence perpetrator programmes, which is what he'd need to do, don't have a great success rate and generally take around a year to complete. If you are determined to give him chance to change, at least postpone the wedding until he can complete a course like that.

He can get details of dvpp from Respect - he should be doing that though not you and it will involve him taking responsibility for his actions.

In the meantime please speak to women's aid about you doing the freedom programme. You can also access it online here and seriously consider living apart for at least a few months.

If you've spent 9 years with him and want to spend another 50+ together then 3-4 months apart is less than 0.5% of your relationship. 0.5% is no time at all to spend thinking things through.

cestlavielife · 11/06/2014 16:16

three months or six or 12 is no time at all when you considering marriage and children with someone.

especially when that person has been physically violent. read your opening post again. he hurt you and scared you. he crossed a line. if it had been a stranger doing this what would you do? why does being in love with him make it ok?

promising means nothing. saying he will do x or y means nothing...

sure give him time to prove he means it. but apart.

delving into yourself in therapy can leave you reeling...you need space for that. give him that space. give yourself space.

NettleTea · 11/06/2014 17:09

Also I think you said that you were first boyfriend/girlfriend. In this case its a really healthy and positive step for you to spend some time alone, to really build and get to know yourselves as individuals, before you consider embarking on a life together.

oikopolis · 11/06/2014 17:15

Sapphire I feel for you so much.

He knows that bringing up a therapy program will shut you up, because it worked last time. This is a textbook response in an abusive situation. I know you want to think he is different... but everyone in your situation wants to think that. Which is why the abuser takes advantage of that wish...

Please look at this: trylanarkcounty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Cycle-of-AbuseVilence-Graphic.gif

You are in the honeymoon stage. Note that on the side of the graphic it says: the more times this cycle is completed, the less time it takes to complete.

Please love. Remember he has done this before. Made the promises. And he did it again.

Read your posts back. He STILL doesn't take full responsibility. He STILL is making sure that he makes subtle digs about it being your fault.

Don't be fooled. You need a long break from him to sort your head out. Of COURSE he's lovely most of the time; don't you think that's what most abusers are like? How else do they find people to abuse?

Remember that you can't have children with him
You can't bring pets into the home
You will get more and more isolated
You will live in fear. Of him, of the embarrassment of your treatment being found out, of never being happy.
That will be your whole life. Don't do it Sapphire... You deserve peace and contentment.

madbutnormal · 11/06/2014 18:54

Any kids? I have had panic attacks and whatever this is, its not that

Itsfab · 11/06/2014 19:08

I don't think he is the only one in denial here.

What are you so scared of? Take a break, he will either realise he has been a twat and take responsibility for his terrible actions, apologise and let you make a safe future. Or you will see you can manage perfectly well without him and realise you have been abused and not see him again. Or he will behave just long enough to suck you back in and it will start all over again but escalate for sure.

HansieLove · 11/06/2014 19:36

I am not clear if you are back wih him or not. Gosh, I hope you are not. Even if (heaven knows why) you want to get back with him, a break of a month will give you breathing space and a chance to see things clearly ON YOUR OWN.

NettleTea · 11/06/2014 19:50

I think OP is at relate this evening. I only hope that they can see through his BS, but knowing the calibre of some relate staff they may well not.

Sapphire18 · 11/06/2014 20:16

Thank you everyone. Been to relate, they said they wouldn't continue to see us together which I knew. He's going to book onto a year-long domestic abusers programme that respect have referred him to. I think he was v shocked to hear relate wouldn't see us together - says he wants to work on Improving communication in our relationship. I said I didn't feel I need to do any sessions but would support the work he does on himself, he can talk to me about it etc. Just really asking myself big questions about how much someone can change. I feel so sad. Up until now I got so much joy planning and thinking about the wedding, making things, going on planning forums, organising, counting down the days.... I told him it feels like all the joy has gone out of it.

OP posts:
earlyriser · 11/06/2014 20:20

I am going to be blunt and ask you what means more to you, is it the planning of the wedding and the day itself or the months and years after?

Lweji · 11/06/2014 20:21

Forget the wedding. It's a party and the honeymoon is a holiday.

Do you want a marriage with an abuser?

AnyFucker · 11/06/2014 20:25

sapphire, you need to this thread

AnyFucker · 11/06/2014 20:25

need to read

AnyFucker · 11/06/2014 20:26

what are you doing about the wedding, sapphire

StoneTheFlamingCrows · 11/06/2014 20:34

I'm really sorry, not able to read all 300+ posts but in case no one else has said it, these are NOT panic attacks. He is literally having tantrums because you will not do what he says or listen to him. And this extreme behaviour works, he gets your attention and it probably makes you more likely to do/say what he wants in the future.

You do not need to work on communication with him, what he is saying is that he wants you to listen to him and obey him more, because he is controlling and angry.

StoneTheFlamingCrows · 11/06/2014 20:36

Fwiw my abusive ex used to have similar, would start frothing at the mouth, gnashing his teeth and punching himself in the head. It is not a panic attack, it is rage.

oikopolis · 11/06/2014 20:48

Sapphire, I completely understand your feelings about the wedding. It's awful, having to go through this when all you want to do is be happy and enjoy a special time.

I know it's very hard but you absolutely must postpone the wedding. He is going to be going through a DV course. This is not the right time for him to marry anyone, least of all the person he's committed DV against. You KNOW this is not the right time.

Please remember that making yourself available to him while he goes through the course is only going to make it harder for him to see himself clearly. I know you love him and want to help, but you aren't helping. You're indulging yourself, you don't want to feel the pain of letting go, so you're putting his recovery at risk instead of doing the right thing.

As long as you are available, he is not going to change. He won't be able to.

There is a reason that psychologists aren't allowed to take on loved ones as clients. It's because they KNOW that they are too close to the problem and will only end up harming the person. Do you really think that you are any different?

The absolute best thing you can do right now, for this relationship, is to leave him alone completely. And actually give him an opportunity to REALLY change and grow.

Try not to be selfish about this. I know it hurts to do the right thing, but the consequences you're facing here are so dire. Please think carefully.

AnyFucker · 11/06/2014 20:51

You're indulging yourself, you don't want to feel the pain of letting go, so you're putting his recovery at risk instead of doing the right thing.

If you truly love him, sapphire, and want to help him you will take very good note of this very profound insight

FairPhyllis · 11/06/2014 20:59

Sapphire, the best thing you can do for both of you now is to call off the wedding, split up with him and do the Freedom Programme, which is a course that helps women who have experienced DV to recognise what a healthy relationship looks like. here

You can't possibly marry someone who is going to go through a DV perpetrator programme, when you are the victim of their DV. And he should not be in a relationship while he is doing the programme.

I know the unanimity of the responses of here must be really overwhelming and scary, but honestly cancelling the wedding will not in hindsight be the big scary awful thing it looks like now. I knew someone whose wedding was cancelled at the eleventh hour - most people can barely even remember now that this was something that happened to him.

Anniegetyourgun · 11/06/2014 21:00

That curling up and throwing yourself around in a rage thing was considered hilarious when Basil Fawlty did it, but then that wasn't real. Fortunately.

You're going to carry on and marry him as planned to prove you have faith in him, aren't you? Argh...

oikopolis · 11/06/2014 21:03

"I married him while he was doing a domestic violence program."

"I married him. He is going to start doing a domestic violence program soon."

"I married him. He said he was going to do a domestic violence program. He hasn't yet, but he's going to get around to it soon."

I don't want any of those phrases to pass your lips ever, Sapphire. Your self respect will be in the toilet. You deserve a life of peace and safety. Marrying a man while he is going through a dv program is not how you start out a life like that.

Try to imagine you were reading this in a book and imagine how you would feel if the heroine went ahead with the wedding under these circumstances.