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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP directing aggressive panic attacks at me

794 replies

Sapphire18 · 09/06/2014 11:20

Sorry this is long - basis of it is my partner having panic attacks which are in the form of very aggressive behaviour. Here are the details:

I am looking for advice on a recurring problem with my fiancé. We have been together for 9 years and got engaged a few months ago. It was in the third year of our relationship (when we first lived together) that I first experienced him having a kind of panic attack in which he becomes very aggressive towards me. It has never got to the point of actual violence but this has happened several times and is always extremely scary, upsetting and leaves me feeling really shaken up and tearful. About two years ago it really got to the point where I gave him a sort of ultimatum and he did a stress management course. It seemed to help as he learned coping mechanisms like going for a walk when feeling stressed, and spotting the triggers / warning signs. Since he did the stress management course there have been considerably fewer of these incidents (e.g. once every 6-9 months?) however last night it happened again. The previous incident was 5 months ago.

To give you an idea of what actually happens – it’s usually triggered by his frustration that I am not listening to him / he can’t control or change something. E.g. the previous incident was his frustration at not being able to stop me feeling depressed. Last night it was that he thought I was not listening to him when he was trying to explain to me about a DIY problem we’ve been having.

He uses his physicality to stop me leaving the room when I am trying to end a conversation calmly or storm out in an argument. I have tried to explain I am using the same technique he learned in stress management but he thinks I am dismissing the conversation we’re having.

Last night I told him I didn’t want to talk about the DIY as he was using a very patronising tone with me (and it was almost midnight and I wanted to get ready for bed). He blocked me from leaving the room to go to the bathroom. I repeatedly asked him to move and he refused, saying he wanted to make me understand the DIY problem. I felt trapped and got up on the bed to get out of the room by a different route. He jumped up on the bed and held his arms around my legs so I couldn’t move. I told him he was hurting my knee (which is recovering from a bike accident) and he refused to let go. I repeatedly asked him but he wouldn’t so I pinched his ear and kicked him and hit him. Not hard enough to really hurt but as a warning / to make him let me go. He didn’t let go and got me down on the bed, I calmly told him I would count to 10 and then he was to let me go. I was really starting to panic but I thought if I do I will really lash out and then we’ll both get hurt, plus I am already injured from my bike accident. He let me go on 10 and I went to leave the room but he stood in the doorway and said he wouldn’t let me until I listened to him.

By now things were calmer and we were talking rather than shouting. I told him he must not ever use his physicality over me like that. He was still focused on our disagreement over the DIY and I told him that was so minor by comparison – what I was now concerned at was his bullying behaviour. I was quite assertive that he must never ever do that (but I’ve said that before). I thought we’d de-escalated things and then I can’t remember what happened but he flipped out having one of his panic attacks. When this happens he adopts a really weird tone of voice, sounds really unstable and a bit crazy; he told me I don’t love him, I want him to hurt himself, I want him to kill himself; he threw himself around the room and I was afraid he’d hurt himself or break something; he banged his head against the floor; ripped at his clothes until he was half naked; writhed on the floor and curled up in a ball with panicked breathing and sobbing; demanded I hold his hands to make him feel safe; refused my offer of rescue remedy but then took it. These behaviours are all absolutely typical of when he gets like this. I didn’t know what to do but basically took the attitude I would with a tantruming toddler – being firm yet supportive, and trying to get him out of it without showing any emotion. However I was really torn as I didn’t want him to think behaving in this way is the way to control me or get my attention. I couldn’t seem to do anything right, whether I went near him or backed away. I was desperately trying to calm him as I was afraid he’d wake our housemates and I know when he gets like this he doesn’t care who’s watching and has no shame.

In the end I left him curled up in a ball on the floor and told him I was going to the bathroom but would come back. I was really shaken and panicky and didn’t know what to do. He was begging me not to leave him. When I returned about 2 minutes later he was in bed sobbing, saying he was only asking me to hold his hands because he felt so scared and panicked, and making out I’d been really heartless. I told him he’d really scared me, it was unacceptable and he should be in control of himself. He told me panic attacks just happen – I have experienced them too but I don’t think they necessarily mean lashing out at someone else! Then he was very apologetic, but I couldn’t stand to have him hug me, it just made my skin crawl.

I tried to sleep but couldn’t stand being near him, so tried to go to the spare room. He told me I shouldn’t; that he should; took my pillows off me so I couldn’t leave with them; begged me to stay. We tried again to talk but I was exhausted by now and said we should just go to sleep. He told me I am the one who holds all the power in this relationship, and that he did touch me when he was stopping me leaving the room, but it’s the closest we get to any intimacy these days. Admittedly we do have less sex since moving into a shared house.

This morning he told me he’d been up most of the night having panic attacks, and had to go for a walk to calm down at 5.30am (I did hear him go out then). He was very apologetic, asked me for a hug then got upset when I couldn’t bring myself to. He protested that he hasn’t got like this for ages (it used to happen much more regularly). He suggested we do relationship counselling ‘before we make any commitments’ – i.e. marriage (we’ve talked of this before) and I think it might be a good idea. I am a bit worried at the cost at an average of £50 though, and a little scared at what we might end up saying to one another.

I just don’t know what to do. Whenever this happens I ask myself what I am doing in this relationship. It makes me feel so vulnerable and frightened, and I don’t know what to do. I think he thinks that because he stops short of actually hitting me, it’s ok, or that because he’s panicking when he does it it’s not his fault. When I call it abusive he says I’m exaggerating. I desperately want him to be able to promise me it’ll never happen again but he says he can’t. I am really happy with the relationship otherwise, and excited to be marrying him but I am wondering if this can be overcome or if I should go on accepting that effectively I am with someone who’ll blow up like this from time to time?

Just to confirm, I am not looking for advice to leave him. I am looking for help in managing / eliminating this behaviour and how to address this issue.

OP posts:
CookieMonsterIsHot · 10/06/2014 17:48

If you tell your friends that he assaulted you and trapped you in the bedroom because you didn't want to talk about DIY when you were getting ready for bed and this has happened before, you will not be short of offers of a bed for a few nights.

Don't worry about couples with their own lives and responsibilities.

We have housed someone for a few weeks in a similar situation. My DH was even more insistent than me on helping her find her feet. Normal men are horrified at the behaviour of abusive men (even if they get all tongue tied in your presence for fear of upsetting you).

DenzelWashington · 10/06/2014 17:49

Please don't get married assuming that how it is now (lovely, with a terrible confrontation every 5-6 months) is how it will remain. It could get better, but it could also get worse. You can't count on the status quo.

CookieMonsterIsHot · 10/06/2014 17:52

Have you told the friend you are with now why you have left?

LumpySpacedPrincess · 10/06/2014 18:00

I was married to someone like this. Sad in his case it was panic attacks and apparently salt that made him behave like this.

I stayed for 7 years and things became so much worse. I left in the end as I feared for my life. Seriously love, don't waste another minute. And please do not bring any children into this relationship.

What are his ex girlfriends like, how does he talk about them?

AdoraBell · 10/06/2014 18:40

Lumpy the OP said near the beginning that neither of them had any other relationship prior to this. Which makes it so much harder, no normal to compare it to so this is "normal" for both.

stinkingbishop · 10/06/2014 19:37

The bottom line is you can't marry a man who scares you.

lovemenot · 10/06/2014 20:45

You can't marry a man you are afraid to talk to, who's reactions you are afraid of.

You will lose yourself. Like I did.

Ultimatums did not work. Telling him how I felt about his behaviour did not work.

He was nice most of the time, but when he wasn't nice he was horrendous.

I'm still stuck here. I live in my bedroom. I cannot talk to him, or reason with him.......cause it's all my fault according to him. Always an excuse or a reason and it's always my fault. He walked out of counseling - that was my fault too.

This will be your future - because it's already your present.

EssexMummy123 · 10/06/2014 20:51

lovemenot have you thought about getting yourself some advice on how to leave your partner?

JonesRipley · 10/06/2014 20:53

I agree with Cookie

If you were my friend I would help you. I'd listen to you and let you stay if you needed to.

I know it seems a big step to admit to something happening in your relationship that you believe people have no idea is going on, but you may find they do have an inkling. Please don't be ashamed or embarrassed

lovemenot · 10/06/2014 20:58

Thanks EssexMummy - it's in the hands of solicitors at the moment. And that takes a helluva lot longer than cancelling a wedding.

OP, my heart goes out to you because I see me in you. I believed he loved me enough, turns out he loves himself more.

Itsfab · 10/06/2014 21:17

I still think about a poster who had a lot of problems with her partner and he was violent to her and her children. She was very severely beaten and then one day she just didn't post any more. I still wonder if she was one of the women killed by their partner or ex.

I am so worried and sad for you. You are going to marry a man you are scared of, can't talk too, aren't safe with because you love him and don't' want to upset anyone by calling off the wedding.

Please just listen and get yourself away from him. It doesn't have to be forever - but I hope it is - but in that time his actions will be very telling.

SignoraStronza · 10/06/2014 21:22

OP you will not be able to have a rational conversation with a 'man' like this. You will go round and round in circles and off onto increasingly obscure tangents. You will be informed of some misdemeanour from months/years ago that you certainly weren't told about at the time and he will 'know' what your reaction to future events will be. It is utterly exhausting and a total headfuck, especially if these discussions continue well into the night. You will never 'win' and nothing will ever be resolved.

cestlavielife · 10/06/2014 21:31

Cancel the wedding.

Use relate If you must but onlyto tell him in front of counsellor that he has been physically aggressive and you calling it off.

Don't get into promises etc.

In six months time review.
If by a miracle he has changed well you can re start you will have lost nothing.
But you know that you wanting him to change won't make him change.

EssexMummy123 · 10/06/2014 21:44

Lovemenot - solicitors tend to move a bit quicker when you start calling both sides for a daily update - good luck.

mstumble · 10/06/2014 22:19

OP I don't usually post but just read this now and wanted to say how brave and strong you are being. This must be so bloody hard to hear, but I totally agree with what everyone is saying and think you should get out now while you still can. Trust me, everything becomes a lot more difficult when children come on the scene. Did you cancel meeting with him tonight?

Mini05 · 10/06/2014 23:53

You don't need relate sapphire, he need professional help starting with the GP. The thing is he doesn't think he as a problem!
It's panic attacks!! And you.
He as got behaviour/aggressive problems! Especially when he can't get his own way he turns on you phyically and tries to turn it round saying it's your fault!!!!

Just think what you would say to YOUR daughter if she came to you with the same scenario.
I'm guessing you'd stay YOU ARE NOT MARRYING HIM!

You can't change people! So please don't think you'll be able too change him when your married, he will then think he as the right to do this your his wife.

Yes it must be very hard to tell people the weddings off but as said previously it's the best option.

DustBunnyFarmer · 11/06/2014 00:08

I would be so so upset to break the news to everyone that we were postponing the wedding.

Think how much more upset they would be to hear your H had hospitalised you or killed you. You are not safe in this relationship and your family and friends will totally understand when they know why. People are a lot less invested in this wedding than you, honestly. The people who love you and care about would much rather you were safe and unharmed than wed.

PlantsAndFlowers · 11/06/2014 01:37

I think it is likely to get worse if you marry him.

stinkingbishop · 11/06/2014 07:20

I twice married men I shouldn't have, and twice it was because I felt I couldn't jump off the wedding rollercoaster, for exactly the same reasons you gave ie everything had been booked and paid for, my Mum had bought her hat, everyone had bought train/plane tickets, the shame of telling them...

When it all came out in the wash years later and people found out I was (kindly) called a pillock, and worse, for not having just called ONE PERSON and said, it's postponed, hinted at why, and got them to do the logistical rest.

The people who matter won't mind, and the people who mind don't matter.

My first Evil Ex was also my first long term relationship, like you. I thought the passion and the fights was romantic. Like in the movies. We were Scarlett and Rhett and it was evidence of just how much we loved each other. Like you, I had nothing to compare it with. That ended up with me having a pint glass ground into my face, my clothes half ripped off, and thrown outside the flat to spend a cold November night with my feet tucked inside tomato grow bags to keep warm. I had to stay just outside the flat you see because by this time we had a child, and I wanted to make sure he was leaving him alone. The reason for the pint glass? He was upset because I was abandoning him to go away for a few days on a work trip. Man child.

My second Evil Ex benefited from me being too scared to admit to family and friends I'd made the wrong decision again, and also a terror of not being in a relationship. The fear of loneliness.

It's taken being in a normal relationship to realise quite how abnormal both of these marriages were. I'm not scared of my DP. I don't hear the key in the lock and think, I wonder how he'll be tonight. I leap up and hug him and it's glorious. He's my best friend and he's funny and kind and clever and loyal and patient and selfless. The biggest things I have to grumble about are his snoring and his tendency to leave a trail of Coke cans and random screws in his wake. We are a team of equals, and the solidity of our love means the only things we have to battle are the outside world and we do that together. He's a source of strength and hope and sunniness. He makes me strong.

He makes me happy.

OP, THAT'S what a normal relationship is. They're a source of pleasure, not pain. Pain isn't romantic; it's Nature's way of telling you something's wrong.

From your posts, I think you ARE mentally checking out now, which is good. But I worry that, like me, the whole wedding admin thing will become the excuse to go ahead. Please don't make the mistake I did. I wasted two decades of my life and it damn near killed me.

mistlethrush · 11/06/2014 09:28

I hope you're OK Sapphire.

Postpone the wedding if you're not feeling confident enough to totally call it off. You cannot marry a man who has told you they can't guarantee not to hurt you and stop you leaving a room and blames you for it in the first place.

Sapphire18 · 11/06/2014 11:57

Hi everyone, thank you for all the support, it has been quite overwhelming.

We met last night and had a good talk. He said straight off (no prompting or ultimatum from me) that he'd realised he has a problem and is going to go back to the counsellor he saw about stress management, and pick up on the anger management they also recommended about 2 years ago.

He's made the Relate appointment for tonight and I don't really agree we need relationship counselling but am going to use it to outline the severity of his actions and then hopefully he'll continue seeing Relate without me.

We talked quite a lot about the previous 'episodes' and how they usually come out of his frustration at not being able to communicate with me. Also we talked about his upbringing by his father who he found to be authoritarian and frightening at times, and occasionally violent. I think that is something he really needs to work on.

I think he's still somewhat in denial about the severity - e.g. was extremely apologetic, shaken and disgusted by his actions, BUT in discussions still occasionally says the odd thing that makes me think he doesn't accept quite all of the blame.

I told him I'd rung the domestic violence helpline and he was utterly shocked. I think that and the fact I left for a night have really shocked him.

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 11/06/2014 12:00

You still shouldn't go back. He needs to go through with all that he promised and more before you even consider living with him again.

Words mean nothing. It's his actions you need to be watching. And he won't take you seriously if you go back.

HayDayQueen · 11/06/2014 12:02

Perhaps they have. But he will now do one of two things.

Either start accepting responsibility and seek help and do things to change,

OR

Start minimising his behaviour and put some of the blame back onto you.

Either way you need to be separated. If he REALLY wants to change, he will be willing to do it apart. In fact he SHOULD do it apart because the change has to come entirely from him if it is to work.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 11/06/2014 12:11

I am glad that you had a good talk to him, Sapphire, but I still think you need to consider postponing the wedding, at the very least. Maybe he has truly accepted that he has a problem, and really does mean to get help, but even so, I don't think you should be getting married until he has got the help, and you can see that it has worked - until you have had an appreciable length of time (6 months or a year, even) after the therapy finishes, with no further attacks or abuse from him.

If he is truly remorseful and willing to change, he will understand why you are asking this, and will agree to it. Just asking him will be a useful test of how sorry he his, and how committed to change he truly is.

Miggsie · 11/06/2014 12:20

You need to read Lundy Bancroft's book - he has worked with abusive men for over 15 years and his experience of them changing is minimal - they hardly ever change and if they do, it takes years.
He is real advocate of women not trying to fix men, and instead getting a decent life for themselves.

I also think that if you marry him it will make him feel it is an approval of his actions and he will relapse again and possibly get worse. Lundy says this better than me and has seen hundreds of men like this.

Don't do joint relate sessions with him - it will be useless. Again, Lundy has a chapter on why joint therapy with an abuser usually makes the abuse worse and that 99% of counselors are useless dealing with abusive men.

Don't marry him, don't!!!!!

It also may be a good idea for you to have therapy to understand why you are investing emotional effort into someone who doesn't like you and why you feel responsible for him. That would help you break away from this relationship and find a happy one.

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