The big W word....

[MissBooBoo]

I have been with MrBooBoo for 9 years now... we have two children together and he is wanting us to plan our third. However, in this whole time he has not asked my hand in marriage. 4 years ago he gave me a bracelet (before we had children) with charms on it, one of them being a ring to let me know that marriage was just around the corner. Well it's been a long bloody corner... then I got pregnant... had 3 miscarriages inbetween and then I had my boy. He really wanted a son and said that he would literally get down on one knee straight away if I gave him a son... my son was born 10 months ago and still no ring has arrived. I have tried to be patient, I have explained to him how important marriage is to me, I have not mentioned the word WEDDING in months to see if that was the problem and he says he wants to get married but no ring materialises.. now he is talking about having another baby. I am 34 so I dont have time to mess around if we do want another one...
We arent the type of couple of just go to a registry office either, we would want a traditional wedding
Am I joking myself over this? How can I speed up the process?

Start planning the wedding and tell him that you intend to get married. Which is fine surely, as he's said many times that he intends to marry you too.

And if he starts looking perturbed, smile and say that no, you want to be married, and if he was lying about that then to let you know now so that plans for baby no 3 can be shelved. Because if you have baby no 3, it will be with a husband. Who may then end up not being him. But who would end up being stepdad to the son who isn't 'his' like some kind of macho prize, but is simply a member of a family that he sounds like he's not as committed to as he boasted.

Is AndyYorke Katie Hopkins?

Ok let me give you some background info...
When we decided to have our first child his father was dying of cancer, he really wanted to show his father that he was settling down and not to worry about him anymore, because his father did a lot about his future. Like most parents. We spoke about getting married after but getting pregnant was priority. I got pregnant pretty quick and his father was happy when we told him we were having a baby girl. My partner loves our daughter, she is the apple of his eye so please do not get that confused. Stupidly, instead of waiting to get married we fell pregnant again and after 3 miscarriages I was pretty spent emotionally. Then finally I held onto my last pregnant. My partners family are West African family where culturally they would also like a son to carry on their surname... especially as his father died he felt a responsibility to carry on the name. He would not love any child more or less depending on sex... even if his son had been a girl... he would not have made any difference but he would have wanted to try again... which we are probably doing regardless of us having a son anyway.
We are an old style couple, he works, i stay at home and look after the kids.. I cook, clean and he works literally 6 days a week until late at night. Everyone has their role and it works but actually Andyyorke is right.. why would he rush into marriage when he has all the benefits of marriage with no ring...
He says he wants to marry and I actually believe him I just dont understand what is taking so long... and when i ask him he says let me do it in my own time and stop ruining it.

I think if he really wanted to get married you would be married by now.
He sounds committed to your relationship so I think you need to find out why he doesn't want to get married and no more promises of when he's ready/when baby no 3 comes/etc.
Did you really want to have your first child so soon or did you rush into it because of his dying father?

I also think that from his point of view he is ok as things are but if he died, you would have few legal rights. you are not his next of kin. Does he realise this?
This would be my main worry in your position.

Sorry but he doesn't want to get married, he might be committed to you but he isn't 100% sure, that's why you're two kids down the line with the same issue.

I don't believe him. People who want to get married tend to, er, get married.

I'd get the other legal stuff sorted then so that you and your children are in a less precarious situation, and perhaps say that it's really important to you and that you don't want to have any more children until you get married and then leave the ball in his court.

It does seem a little odd to me to be so traditional in some ways and yet to have a family without getting married first, and there's no way I'd leave something so important to me in another person's hands. However given that that's the way you roll then no I suspect there is very little you can really do to persuade your partner to set a date.

"culturally they would also like a son to carry on their surname... especially as his father died he felt a responsibility to carry on the name."

How is their family name supposed to be carried on if he does not marry the mother?

Please say you didn't register your DS with a name different to yours.

What are your living circumstances, as in, are you living in rented - if so are both names on the tenancy or only one? If case, which one of you?

If you are home-owners, are both names on the deeds and mortgage? If not, again which one of you is?

Which is more important, a wedding or a marriage?
When you talk about the big W word, and describe the traditional wedding and the fairy tale (ask for your hand), I can't help thinking that this is more about the wedding than it is the marriage.
If he had wanted to get married, I suspect he would have asked you by now. Maybe he doesn't want the big wedding.

Andy what's your beef? confused
I think the underlying issue is that I believe women have been conned by 'feminism' which accepts the male as norm and expects women to be 'male' in their outlook and experience. Marriage and family are important to a lot of women, even if not to all, and they can get a better deal if they plan carefully. But they don't. They go the shag-happy route and end up moaning that no-one ever married them. If they're really dim trusting, they live in his house, as sahms, and have no financial security at all.

Andy I don't understand this bit of your post, Rant from totally unashamed older female who did marry from home, bred, later divorced but still thinks that the most support a woman can arrange is if she goes from her parents' home to her marital home.

What do you mean by the last line?

Sorry you have been through a shit experience - it sounds as though you yourself were a little too trustful when you married.

If his father had not been ill I would have insisted we got married first then had children. And yes I feel he is 100% commited to me and the kids so I find him delaying a marriage strange. it is mainly so i feel we are a safe family unit... if he died tomorrow i would be up sh$t creak and that very much worries me. he has made a will but i worry as his sisters are money grabbing witches

Sorry everyone I agree with AndyYorke. Haven't you young things noticed that men are different? They think differently. They are two people , their penises and their brains. You only have to read Mumnet Relationships postings to see that they are Different. Why women have babies with someone who is refusing to committ legally to them ( when the women involved wants them to commit legally) beats me. I was a young thing in the 60's and no way was I going to live with anyone. What ! I could see if I did I would be at home alone, probably bored, no job, dependant on a man for money, vulnerable and the main Carer of any children who came along. It is so blindingly obvious. No one can help this OP with any suggestions.

Nothing strange about it OP, just because he is presently committed to you does not equate to a marriage for the rest of his life.

I was in a vaguely similar situation. We were older, I fell pregnant accidentally so had a child before marriage.
I waited and waited for a proposal. It didn't come. I felt he was 100% committed to me. We were very happy and I felt secure.
I decided that marriage was not a deal breaker for me, however sad I would be about it.
I eventually wrote him a letter telling him all the legal and financial implications of us not being married, together with all of the emotional reasons why I wanted to be his wife.
I told him that if he didn't want to marry that I would still be with him.
I left the letter for him to find while I went away for a weekend.
I think having it written in black and white, but not as a dramatic emotional blackmail, was what made him seriously think about what marriage means.
Four months later he proposed and we married in a low key, informal wedding 18 months after the letter.
I'm not kidding myself that we'll always live in a fairytale bubble, but I think we both reached the conclusion that while a wedding wasn't a priority, a marriage was (IYSWIM).

I agree with AndyYorke
[faints]!

I don't understand. Why would having a baby together be more of a sign to his dad that he was 'settling down' than marrying you? Why was it more important to get pregnant first? Genuinely confused.

Men are 'different' because they are allowed to get away with it. I have noticed that people who roll their eyes and talk about men thinking with their penises, tend to be the same ones who put up with any old shit on the basis of such behaviour being in their nature.

My preference, is to have a man who is an equal, responsible for his own decisions, and who respects me as one too. Childcare, housework, earning - all 50/50. Living on my own, and with a number of men before marriage allowed me to be my own person, and I was never dependent, or bored. It seems to me, that is more symptomatic of the mindset, that men will do their thing and women will be disadvantaged by putting their needs second so you better get a ring on your finger to protect you.

Fuck that. That nasty feminism has allowed me to make choices my mother could only have dreamed of, and value myself enough to not be anyone's helpmeet, unless he was prepared to help me too.

Whilst I get the marriage before children side from the point of view of legal protection that's got nothing to do with marrying young or going directly from your parents home to your husbands, neither of which are likely to help with dependency issues or increase the chance of a successful relationship. Lots of conflation there, and not an approach I would advocate to either my daughter or my son.

OP - If he is 100% committed to you, why has he not married you?

Propose to him. If he says 'no', you'll have your answer to the above.

Have I wandered into 1950s MN?
Clearly.
No, this is 'saw through the crap MN'.

Don't be foolish enough to have another child with this person.

He doesn't want to marry you.