Separate finances

[Layla001]

My DP and I have been together 2 years. We are currently expecting our first child together. When we met he was separated from his now ex wife. He moved into my house after about 3 months together. I did not ask him to pay an equal share of things at the time as he was between jobs, earned much less than me at the time and was finding his feet. Hence he mainly contributed by paying for some food and at other times the odd contribution. This was the case for around 9 months. He then secured a better paid job, we were then earning around the same so we split all household costs 50/50.

After we had been together around 16 months we bought a house together. He paid the deposit from his divorce settlement which we have agreed he gets back in full should be ever split. Outside of the deposit we pay a fixed amount into a joint account each month to cover basic household costs such as mortgage, bills etc. We both pay exactly the same amount each month.

However he now has a permanent and much higher paid job - so for the last 8 months he has earned almost double what I earn. I still pay 50% of everything despite the fact he now earns a significant amount more. I also pay 50% of large purchases such as sofas, dining tables etc.

I am by far the most sensible with money - he has admitted this too. I save a fixed amount every month into savings for emergencies. I don't spend a lot on myself and I go without that month if I have run out of money. He spends more freely than I do - on his hobbies etc. There have been times when he has said things about money that make me cross and feel demeaned. Hard to explain but in a nutshell it is as though if he feels he has made larger contribution to anything he resents me. When I am frugal, spend little on myself, contribute proportionally a lot more than he does. Now and in the beginning of our relationship when he had virtually no money.

We are now expecting a baby together - he did mention we should pool money and everything be joint once we have a family together, which I agree with. Also I will take a huge drop in income to look after baby (and be main carer as he works away mon-fri) and feel very vulnerable and exposed financially. I suggested that we now have both our salaries deposited into our joint account. Everything is shared. We then each have a fixed amount each month go from the joint account to our individual accounts so that we both have some security. And we also should have a fixed amount go into our joint savings account. The rest stays in our joint current account for both of us.

He looked annoyed when I suggested this. He wants to keep control of his money and be in control of transferring some into our joint account each week (he is paid weekly). I feel demeaned and resentful already and horrified. I feel that he will try to hide things, and that our relationship will be based on him having access to what I see as our joint salary/income as a family. On maternity I will get £500 per month. He gets £4000 per month after tax every month. I want everything open and shared and I am already starting to feel alone and isolated and quite resentful. Especially as I am the sensible one with money. I may as well be a single mother and continue my life alone as I did for 38 years before I met him if he intends to keep money for himself and hide what he spends.

I am already facing a huge life change - it us really hard to be dependent on someone since I have always had to look after myself financially and have had to work really hard in my job to get where I am today - all if this I will have to sacrifice to have our baby. He will in contrast continue now to earn a substantial amount compared to me over the next 5-10 years and I am scared I will feel separate too him and alone.

Not sure I explained this well - basically when the baby is born and I have very little income he wants to keep control of his large salary by still having it paid into his own account which only he has access to. I don't want to ask him for money each week, and I don't like how he is very reluctant to be transparent about what he spends 'our' income on. His salary is paid weekly by the way and it can vary each week but is always between 750-1000 each week after tax. As it does very is another reason I think it should get paid directly into our joint account, along with my salary. I am also tired of feeling awkward in public when we have to have the discussion about 'who' is paying etc. It's awful and I am feeling miserable about the fact that for the first time ever I am going to be reliant on someone else bringing in secure money. It is not easy to go from having to be really careful with money to relying on someone else who seems to want to keep their now big salary under their own control. Also what if something happens to him and I can't access the funds for our family/baby etc?

I know exactly where you are coming from similar situation with my DH who i have just split from. He also was the larger earner and i felt he had all the power as a result when i was on maternity. I can honestly say it is a power shift we never recovered from because i hated being dependent and he resented that i was, he too liked to keep all his money to himself despite earning double what i do. Before i went on maternity i squirreled away money into. "Pretty lady fund" as i was not going to be begging for money for tampons etc from him. Everything my DH has leanrt about money and control he learnt from his father and his mum said to me not so long ago that they will grind you down in the end! Very sad but if you think he is unlikely to change his virwpoint, tiredness, new baby and feeling a bit like you have lost your identity whilst on maternity arent going to help. Get some savings out aside that he doesnt know about so that you have something to fall back. He sounds a very selfish and miserly person and that needs to change if you are having a family, you cannot be a team if one of you is always puting their needs first. Good luck x

I do think you have to tell him that you are either a family or he can fork out for child care. Or Child Maintenance...

Also beware, as you don't seem to be married, that you are in a weak legal position, as well as financial. Do protect yourself and don't hinder your career or job because of his.

Get legal advice on this.

Nope- sorry, I wouldn't do it.

Families hare and support and that means money too. We don't have "mine and yours" money". Everything is a central pot. We all contribute in different ways for the well being of the family. my OH contributes more financially, I do more housework, childcare and organization of finances.

Often men can only go on earning a high salary after havinga child because there is a woman bearing the load on the domestic front. I too would hate the scenario of splitting restaurant bills etc.

I would rather raise a child alone than having a man so grasping of his cash.

Can you separate what you 'want' from what you 'need'? You want everything open and shared; what you actually need is financial fairness and security. Is there another way of getting this? Could the weekly payments to the joint account be set up in a way that gives you that security but leaves him feeling he has some control?

(FWIW I'm with you on the joint-account thing; this is what we do in our household where I am the higher earner but my earnings are erratic, and I am the less sensible spender. But it was my suggestion not DPs and if it had come from DP I might have felt a bit like a naughty girl who couldn't be trusted with her own money, or that he was after my money. Not very rational but true all the same).

He keeps saying he will transfer all of his salary each week into the joint account. Yet when I ask him to just change it do that his salary is paid directly into our joint account he has put barriers in the way saying things like - it will be a hassle because I have some standing order they go from my current account. I countered this argument by asking him to change these standing orders to go from our joint account instead but he still seemed very unhappy and clearly did not want to. The standing orders are only a couple - one for a credit card debt which I know about and it not loads. The way I see it, his debt becomes our debt.

It is making me really unhappy and sad. He did confess that he feels uncomfortable me labeling what he spends each week - but I see they as us both having to grow up, be fair, act as one, think about our family as a team, and trusting each other.

I've actually been awake all night dwelling on this now so it must be upsetting me. I go onto maternity in June so I am getting nervous and feeling insecure.

Me knowing what he spends each week that should have read - not 'labeling' Sorry typing this on my phone.

As you aren't married as someone else said, you're financially in a very vulnerable position. Don't give up everything. If you split up, you won't be entitled to anything unless you've sorted it legally first.

I'm part time and we have our wages paid into our separate accounts but we pay an equal proportion of what we earn into a joint account so at the end of the month we end up with about the same left in our own accounts, if that makes sense. Luckily neither of us are big spenders, and we're married, should it all go wrong.

I would worry about his attitude, you're having a baby and won't be earning. You should be a team.

LadyGardenersQT - I had hoped he would suggest this himself without me having to ask.

If he sees it as his money, rather than us as a family. I am better being on my own and trying to continue with my own career after baby is born and putting child in full time childcare - just to ensure that I still have earning potential for my family for the rest of our lives. This would kill me however because my career is all time consuming and I think I would seriously have a nervous breakdown trying to manage a full time job, a baby on my own Mon-fir as he works away, and all the house admin and organization things. So I may as well be single and do it.

My parents always shared all salaries and there is never any talk of yours and mine although my dad is probably the bigger spender. As is my partner. I know deep down it will become a huge area of resentment if it is not sorted out.

Practically it is such a pain too - I will be the one at home more having to pay and organise things for the home and baby and I just can't stomach every week having to check if he has transferred money and if there is enough. If anything happens too I can't access any money for our family. :-(

Pobble - the fact we are not married, at the moment, does not bother me because we have only been together 2 years, there are not a lot of assets to split at present. We agreed he gets the deposit back on the house if we split - I don't want a penny of the money he earned before we met. I don't think it is fair I get any if that ever. What he did/had before me and the baby is his. All of it. I just think that considering the financial sacrifices I am going to make in order to stay at home with baby and run the house that from this point forward everything needs to be shared equally but most importantly CONTROLLED equally. For if there is no trust or willingness to share equally what do we really have left?

It is not that he is saying he will not share all
Of his earnings - it is the fact they fluctuate each week and his obvious attempt to avoid his salary being paid directly into our joint account. This has already made me think there is something not to trust there. Obviously starts me feeling resentful. And if I am honest - offended since I don't fritter money at all and regularly do not buy things for myself because I try to build security For our future.

Surely, though, if a decent amount goes back into his individual account after the bills are paid from the joint one, you won't know or at least won't have to know what he chooses to spend it on? I don't think that makes you overly intrusive. The important thing is to have enough money to hand for emergencies. If he gets kidnapped by aliens, how would you pay the ransom if all the spare cash was sitting in his account that you didn't have access to? (Unlikely alien scenario being, of course, shorthand for all sorts of rather more plausible eventualities.)

I'd be worried OP. If you haven't got the additional deposit documented anywhere - don't. When I bought my house with DP (admittedly I'm in Scotland) I was advised a 50/50 split of goods owned in common would be assumed unless difference substantial and documented (I was the one putting in more incidentally).

I have to say OP that I'm surprised by the number of people who think it'll be different when pregnant or had a baby. Your negotiating position has not gotten stronger and you are shouldering the hit to personal income...

Having said that, if this is truly about you seeing his transactions in detail, couldn't you agree a system where j/a is for family / household only and you both transfer more out for personal use (hobbies, mobile phones, clothes, whatever)? This us what we do (although over the years more things have become 'common') and it works for us.

Do you know what your financial needs are, on a monthly basis? What is your mortgage/rent, utilities and what so you spend on food, petrol, luxuries etc. do a proper budget for monthly living once the baby arrives and for one off purchases. Be sure to include a coffee/cake allowance, toy allowance and toiletries.

Once you're clear on what your financial needs are it will be a lot easier to explain why you need certain sums of money and be far more palatable to your partner.

I also find it embarrassing. If my friends or family were to know. Most of my friends and family after having children have pooled everything but even more crucial both have access and control to all pooled resources. Imagine me out with my mum and needing to buy something and having to call my partner to check he has sent me the money that week. I find it humiliating.

Do you know what the outcome of his divorce was? Does he pay maintenance to previous wife or children?

You have an "agreement" about the deposit has that been done legally? Just asking because he may be looking for his 20% or so deposit back. What if the price of the house rises significantly- will he still be looking at 20% of the value. Or what if the house end up in negative equity when you sell- will he still be looking at taking back his original investment despite losses- potentially leaving you with having to take out a loan to pay him back.

Of course without a legal agreement then he can't insist on anything if your home is in joint names, so personally I wouldn't be pushing him to do so.

Agree w beating wings. Keep very quiet about the deposit and don't accept anything in writing. My advice as a divorce lawyer who frequently acts for cohabiting (ie non married) couples.

Buggersmuddle - the house deposit was all from him. I did not pay any Imogene it since my own house had virtually no equity in it as I bought it at the peak and a month later the market crashed. I kept a small amount in savings to cover that house which is now a rental property in case it needs repairs etc or there are no tenants at times.

I don't need to have anything written up about the deposit since I did not contribute to it. The mortgage on our house is joint and owned 50/50. If we split I will simply ensure he gets the full deposit amount back and would never, under any circumstances, not want to do that. It us his from what he had before he met me. Any other equity in our house would then be split 50/50.

As I mentioned earlier - we have a joint account now. I deliberately suggested that both are salaries should be paid into this and then an equal amount transfered into both our separate accounts each month so that he can still feel he had some control and so do I. And it is equal. Plus it distributes the risk to me - if one of us overspend a or messes up the other person will still be ok with a certain amount of their own little pot. I'm not talking a huge amount here. The rest I would like to think stays in our joint account and our joint savings account. This way everything is share, open, equal plus allows for a little risk calculation. Also means I could but him presents etc from my savings without spoiling surprises etc.

Suzie, I'm no expert- just long in the tooth!! Having been in similar situations myself.

Experience counts for everything!

Ok this is what I would like lol : total monthly income when I am on maternity with our combined salaries. £4500 (give or take a couple hundred quid). 4500 goes into joint. Our fixed household outgoings (including food) roughly 1500. His credit cards per month 200. I have no debt. So 1700 in total. I think 1700 on those costs, 400 to joint savings, 400 to his savings, 400 to my savings = £2900. Leaving around 1600 every month in joint account. I mean that us loads in my opinion plus ensures we save for the future. One thing he has never done and he himself says he is bad at. This way it forces him to save. And us to save. I don't care if he spends more than me, there is enough to go around. I just need to know we are planning sensibly for the future for the baby etc.

"If we split I will simply ensure he gets the full deposit amount back and would never, under any circumstances, not want to do that"

A crystal ball is a great thing to have.

What if the house falls into negative equity and there is no money to pay him back his deposit- would you take out a loan to do that?
Just playing devil's advocate here.

I know exactly what he got from previous wife. They did not have children. He got £30,000. She got about £300,000. Mainly because she had lots of family money from her parents and dividends from her parents' company. They were married 7 years. He could have asked for half. He would never dream of that. He was in and out of work I think during their marriage and they did not share accounts etc. the court did actually question why he only got such a small amount given the fact they were together 7 years. The ex wife said this was because he contributed much less during the marriage. And he is decent and would not have tried for more anyway.

I do feel I need to add here that he is very loving, very considerate, very open with his feelings, very supportive and I love him to death. It is just this money thing!

Ps she got the house, and he lived in his van for several weeks because she did not want him in the house.