Separate finances

[Layla001]

My DP and I have been together 2 years. We are currently expecting our first child together. When we met he was separated from his now ex wife. He moved into my house after about 3 months together. I did not ask him to pay an equal share of things at the time as he was between jobs, earned much less than me at the time and was finding his feet. Hence he mainly contributed by paying for some food and at other times the odd contribution. This was the case for around 9 months. He then secured a better paid job, we were then earning around the same so we split all household costs 50/50.

After we had been together around 16 months we bought a house together. He paid the deposit from his divorce settlement which we have agreed he gets back in full should be ever split. Outside of the deposit we pay a fixed amount into a joint account each month to cover basic household costs such as mortgage, bills etc. We both pay exactly the same amount each month.

However he now has a permanent and much higher paid job - so for the last 8 months he has earned almost double what I earn. I still pay 50% of everything despite the fact he now earns a significant amount more. I also pay 50% of large purchases such as sofas, dining tables etc.

I am by far the most sensible with money - he has admitted this too. I save a fixed amount every month into savings for emergencies. I don't spend a lot on myself and I go without that month if I have run out of money. He spends more freely than I do - on his hobbies etc. There have been times when he has said things about money that make me cross and feel demeaned. Hard to explain but in a nutshell it is as though if he feels he has made larger contribution to anything he resents me. When I am frugal, spend little on myself, contribute proportionally a lot more than he does. Now and in the beginning of our relationship when he had virtually no money.

We are now expecting a baby together - he did mention we should pool money and everything be joint once we have a family together, which I agree with. Also I will take a huge drop in income to look after baby (and be main carer as he works away mon-fri) and feel very vulnerable and exposed financially. I suggested that we now have both our salaries deposited into our joint account. Everything is shared. We then each have a fixed amount each month go from the joint account to our individual accounts so that we both have some security. And we also should have a fixed amount go into our joint savings account. The rest stays in our joint current account for both of us.

He looked annoyed when I suggested this. He wants to keep control of his money and be in control of transferring some into our joint account each week (he is paid weekly). I feel demeaned and resentful already and horrified. I feel that he will try to hide things, and that our relationship will be based on him having access to what I see as our joint salary/income as a family. On maternity I will get £500 per month. He gets £4000 per month after tax every month. I want everything open and shared and I am already starting to feel alone and isolated and quite resentful. Especially as I am the sensible one with money. I may as well be a single mother and continue my life alone as I did for 38 years before I met him if he intends to keep money for himself and hide what he spends.

I am already facing a huge life change - it us really hard to be dependent on someone since I have always had to look after myself financially and have had to work really hard in my job to get where I am today - all if this I will have to sacrifice to have our baby. He will in contrast continue now to earn a substantial amount compared to me over the next 5-10 years and I am scared I will feel separate too him and alone.

If the house falls into negative equity I would give him any equity there was a take and loss on anything I had put into it since we bought it. If it increases in value, if he wants his deposit back and a percentage of value increase linked to his 20% deposit he can have that too. I'd never be mean to him financially. He had to put his entire savings/payout from his divorce into the house (since my small amount of equity was tied up in my own house)which left him with no accessible savings at all. I would want to ensure he always got his fair share back.

Sounds like his emotional experience with money is consistent then. I.e. He didn't ask for half of what the former wife had and he doesn't particularly want to share half of what he has with you.

What's his is his and what's yours is yours.

It's a different attitude and doesn't comply with mumsnet approach but there nothing wrong with it. You just need to work your way around it.

If you don't want to force the issue and create a problem, but want to achieve more comfort, I would tackle things slowly, gently improving the position over time. He will be uncomfortable relinquishing control of his finances so I wouldn't ask him to. I'd just set out very clearly what you need in joint account and include a provision (no more than 400 ish) for saving. Then ask to review it once the baby is born and everything has settled down.

You could always see a financial planner if that will help mediate the position between you.

I also suggested we could easily get the deposit thing written up legally to protect him - his more than once declined this and said he wanted things to feel shared. So legally I could demand half of all equity in the house. However I have high morals and would rather lie in the road than take what from him. I do have experience, unfortunately, from the past, about cohabiting and finances. I ended up with a small amount from a joint mortgage with an ex, it was just enough to put a small deposit down on a tiny house in a run down area for myself when we split. It was tough but I remember that I literally left with my clothes and my car (which I paid for). He earned a ridiculous amount more than me, and I only paid a proportionate shar of bills, however I was still the one to lose my life and home as I knew it. I don't want to ever out my DP through that or myself. He really is a good egg. I don't really understand why he seems so scared.

"However I have high morals and would rather lie in the road than take what from him."

You may feel differently when you have a child to consider though. He hasa resonsibility to financially support that child- no matter what.

He'd support our child. I have no doubts. I just think that anything accrued BEFORE we met it not up for grabs.

Layla- you say you don't understand why he seems so scared.
Does part of the lack of financial comittment in some way cause you to question his comittment on other levels too?

Yes Laya- you have a valid point- you say anthing he accrued before you met is not up for grabs- but he also want to retain what he sees as "his" now- even though you are a family- so he doesn't want that up "for grabs" either.

I did ask that this week whilst he is away at work he asks HR to start putting his salary into our joint account. I am going to do the same. I will just have to see if he does it before doing anything else. I'm hoping he loves us and the little baby on its way enough to realise it is about us as a family now. It will either go hugely wrong at this point, or he'll agree to the suggestion and find it all works out fine.

Beatingwings - I agree. Which is why I am going to see if he now is open to sharing all for us as a family. If he is not I will have no option to also act like he is. I mean I will be pushed to approach things separately financially. Which will be very unloving, very 'single' life to me and very stressful. It will mean I got back to work full time next year and he will have to pay half of huge childcare Bill, half of cleaners wage (which I would have to employ) and deal with no family time and a very exhausted partner. Leading to a resentful partner on a lot less money who will eventually feel like she shares her home with a weekend lodger :-(

It will also be silly if my salary goes into the joint account and his does not. But I just can't approach family life with this 'separate' attitude towards money. It's awful way to live.

T doesn't suit you but it does suit him. You are being very dramatic and emotional about it which may not help you in the long run.

We run separate finances in our household. Works for us. Nothing wrong or right about it.

I don't disagree with separate finances, we didn't open a joint account until we married and we still have separate accounts.

However don't put yourself in a position where you are left short because you've ha the baby and are on maternity leave. There are so many people on here who come on posting that story and are struggling each week whilst the man keeps his wages.

I'm not saying you have to be married, as long as you realise that the law only protects you if you are married unless you've got something legally sorted out.

I know you're dating you wouldn't want the deposit and all this, but break ups can be messy especially if kids are involved. You may not want anything for yourself, but you will want to make sure your child doesn't go without.

I'm not trying to bring doom in and say you'll break up! Just don't put yourself in a vulnerable position already.

*saying, not dating!

Suzie- I agree. as long as a couple are happy then it doesn't matter how the finances are run.

Layla- do you want to go back to work after your baby is born?

Agree with Suzietwo above ^^ I'm not a lawyer but my family is very lawyerly. You are thinking with your heart and not your head. Be very very careful this doesn't work to your detriment. You are putting a whole lot of trust in your partner, which is lovely, but nothing is certain in this world, and you owe it to your coming child, and yourself, to make sure you are as financially secure as you can possibly be.

I think that your idea about splitting the joint finances into savings accounts sounds sensible and perfectly reasonable. Sorry, maybe I haven't read the thread properly, but is your current plan to SAH with the baby or to return to work after mat leave? I think if you're going to give up your job and financial independence then the finances need to be joined.

I'm now a SAHM to our nearly 6 month old. All of the money is ours and has been since we moved in together 13 years ago. I don't care if OH knows what I spend and vice versa. Is it the practicalities you're worried about?- If so they can be easily sorted. It sounds more like his reluctance to "go all in" is indicative of a lack of total commitment. Everyone's different but I know I wouldn't like it.

Well it's not entirely true that the law only protects you if you're married.

The law will provide for mothers by way of carers allowance in addition to child maintenance if finances allow for it.

If the property isn't held jointly then there may be a valid claim to divide it anyway. And if there are children then a roof over their heads will be provided, often by providing the property is put into trust for the benefit of the children until they are 21 then reverting to the owner.

The problem with the law is not so much regarding the children directly but the partners.

If you give up your job, or damage your career by going PT, you wouldn't be easily compensated for that directly.
Would he compensate you for your loss of earnings? Or the damage to your future prospects? Would he give you a portion of the benefit he would be getting by you taking care of his child and his house? I don't think so.

That indirectly affects the children, because they tend to stay with the mothers and their diminished finances.

suzie - yes I do feel emotional about it, which I don't see as a negative. I feel emotional because I feel vulnerable due to my inability to independently provide for my baby if things go wrong. And believe me - I have the experience of things going wrong. He does not feel worried about separate accounts because he's now on the career path to a long term financially sound and well paid life.

However if it were the other way I wonder how 'emotional' it would feel to a man in the same position. I mean really think about it. It is like me saying the following:

"You have just worked 18 years straight in a relentless profession that pays a very average salary. You have received no handouts from parents throughout life and know the misery of wondering how to find money for the next bill. Now, after all these years of toil you have just about got to the point where you can afford a holiday every now and again and not have to drive at 60pmh in 4th gear to save money on petrol for the first time in your life. You supported your partner when she was financially struggling (despite being skint yourself) and always pay fairly for things regardless of how overdrawn you might be any one given month. You have never asked for a partner or anyone else to pay for anything for you. Your partner wanted a baby with you and now you are pregnant (ok I know if this is a man it would not be this way lol). You have no choice but to quit work as your partner works away all week. Overnight, you are now going to have to hope your partner gives you enough money for the week and is fair with it too. By the way, you are going to forfeit any decent wage for the next 10 years at least. You are not supposed to mind if you have no job skills, savings, or security. But your partner will have all of this (she's not the emotional one remember) because she'll have worked her way up whilst you were mopping up baby sick. Not that you'll know what she really spends money on because she has control of all your money and therefore your life. "

I do not question is commitment. If anything he wants to get married more than I. He has said he will not ask if he thinks I will refuse him. I change my mind about marriage every hour. Several reasons, I'm used to not being married, never have been married and quite like it. I am scared of a marriage break up as break ups without marriage have been hard enough in the past for me. And it works for us now as we are. My partner however has said many times he would like to marry me. And deep down I;d like him to be my husband - I'm just a bit scared and need more time to know things will be ok long term for us all.

My partner was more enthusiastic to try for a baby than I was. Again I was scared. I am 38 and this is my first baby. I don't know anything else apart from work. I was also scared because he works away all week so I am scared of being alone and not coping with a newborn on my own.

My partner is generous with his time, love, affection and support. Which is why I want to spend my life with him and have a baby with him. But his recent reluctance to be completely open financially worries me. It has started me thinking that really maybe I am still in a big way 'on my own.'

Also commitment can end in a heartbeat. To me a wedding does not mean he would not leave. A joint account does not mean he would not leave. All I want is reassurance that whilst we ARE together we are a team, a unit. And I hope that that team last a whole lifetime. I really love him. And I believe he really loves me.

I know he was upset in the relationship with his ex wife that she held the power financially and that he always felt bad that she was in control of money and he was in ways indebted to her because she had lots more money.

He'll probably come round, we'll work as a team, and he'll realise we are a unit. I just want to feel part of a real family and team. And not worry about the baby financially if I lose my work skills over the next few years. I hope to return part time for maybe 2 days after my maternity. It will bring in about £800 per month. I will have to sacrifice my management bonus because I will not be able to keep that role with a child. However if we have to pay childcare that will reduce to around £400 per month. My parents are getting old and may not be able to have the baby whilst I work part time.

Here's another reason I am nervous and need him to show me we are a unit. I was engaged once. I lived in America. One morning I awoke at 9am. The ex fiance, out of the blue, smashed up our house, booked me a one way ticket back to the UK for 12 midday the same day. He gave me 60 minutes notice of the end of my life as I knew it. I was 'sent' home on a 18 hour flight feeling like a epitomy of a reject. Nothing quite like an 18 hour flight for a walk of shame home. I haven't seen him since. I had to rebuild my life from scratch - including finances. He controlled a LOT. Oh and he stuck his d**k in another woman before I had even had chance to call up and cancel my wedding dress. Which I had to pay for despite never collecting it. My point is - a diamond ring, and a fiance who BEGGED me to live with him in the US did not stop him suddenly leaving. Don't get me wrong - my partner is nothing like my ex. I don't worry he will remotely do anything like that. It is more that I dio not have the strength inside me to start from scratch again, in dire straits financially. It almost killed me last time. I can't do that again.

Hence I want full transparency from the start.

I think it's fine to be emotional about this. If you were "given" an allowance, even if it was plenty if you didn't feel ok about it then it's inadequate. A friend of mine is a SAHM after giving up a career similar to her partners in terms of earnings and her DH now gives her "housekeeping"- she says it makes her feel like some sort of pet. It really is better to get this sorted before the baby's born. You need security. If you think you're emotional now it will be magnified when the little one comes along

Very, very, very poor decision to give up a job and become a stay at home parent when you are not married and have no legal agreement in place.

Hi layla,

Just to reassure you, you are being perfectly reasonable. What you are suggesting mirrors my past with my ex wife perfectly. We got together and split bills 50/50 kept the rest of what we earned for ourselves, this continued even when we got married. However as soon as the kids arrived we did what you suggested, pooled everything, paid the bills gave ourselves an 'allowance' each into our sole accounts to spend on whatever we wanted. Worked perfectly and most of all ensured that we had a feeling of fairness and equality.

You need to talk this through calmly and rationally with him, explain the process really clearly and sell the benefits to him, in particular emphasise that he will still have an amount (equal to yours, to spend on whatever he wants) and one unexpected benefit was like you my ex was fab with money and we saved loads from the joint pot, so for the first time in my life we had fab savings which was great. It was a change for me but it also meant that money was never ever an issue in the whole of our marriage which was a really stress free place to be.

Don't let this go, you are being fair and failure to sort this will dog your relationship.

Agree with expat, sheer madness to give up your job if not married. Even then, it's a bad decision albeit a little more protected.

The relationship is still very new, it's only two years together. There are lots who at that stage would still want separate finances as technically its still dating.

There's no right or wrong, your wishes don't trump his so you need to talk about it like adults and agree not demand he hands it all over etc.

From his point of view, if you will earn £800, pay half the childcare of £200 but demand £400 in your own personal savings plus some joint savings then no wonder he thinks it's a bad idea. What exactly are you paying for as there's none left for living costs or towards the babies costs.

Happy mummy - god I hope we are not still 'dating' only since I am carrying his child and supported him for the first 9 months of our relationship. Plus may 50% of everything now despite him earning double plus more (eg last week spent nearly £500 on things for house we needed did not ask him for a penny). I currently bring home 2200 after tax. This will drop to 800 if I can work 2 days a week and only if we get free childcare for those two days. He currently earns 4000 per month and will continue to do so for years to come. Whilst I raise his child. Mainly singlehanded lay whilst he is away 5 days and nights. I would like to see how on earth I am expected to survive on £600 per month (factoring in the possibility of him covering half the childcare) whilst he survives on £3800 per month after childcare. We currently now both contribute £600 per month to joint account to cover mortgage, utilities, house insurance, phone and internet, council tax, life insurance. So if I continue to pay my share I will have £0 to feed myself and the baby, put petrol in the car, go anywhere ever at all, pay relentless neverending household costs that add up. And he has £3200 per month to do as he likes? Whilst my career goes down the drain? Are you serious?