I am a horrible snob

[Iamameangirl]

I feel so bad about myself, its pathetic really. I grew up on a pretty grim council estate just outside glasgow and we were poor, my father was in and out of work thourgh the 80's and we had bugger all. I hated it, I was a bit of an odd one out at school I was quiet and read a lot but I disliked my scummy surroundings and desperately wanted all the trappings of a middle class life like piano lessons, ballet lessons, pony school, books, nice food and holidays. I didn't really know anyone like that (only in books) but I knew it was out there and I wanted a slice of it.

I worked hard at school and went and got into university, got my degree and my post grad. I was very fussy about who I dated I never wanted the bad boy or the slacker I like the careful, sensible reliable guys the engineers and the math students. I tended to date guys from more middle class backgrounds but when I fell in love it was with a man from a poorer background like myself but he was an engineer and he too wanted a better life than what he grew up with.

We have done well we have a lovely house in a good area, nice cars, I am finally taking piano lessons. But god I am such a snooty, snobby cow! I occasionally meet up with some girls I was at high school with and secretly I get a boost out of comparing my life with theirs. They are all fairly chavvy, multiple kids to different men, tattoos, obese, eating rubbish, working in the supermarket etc They were the cool girls at school, while I was the weirdo.

In other ways too at the supermarket I look at what people are buying and I feel superior when I see the ready meals, bottles of booze and junk food in their trolly. I take pride in all the healthy quality things I buy, ingredients for healthy homecooked meals, of course I also grow my own veg and herbs. I look at what people read and what films and music they listen to and I judge away looking down my nose at them and feel smug about the quality, high brow culture I consume.

I'm kind of horrified at myself, I know I still have hang ups about my background, nearly all my friends were privately educated and I do feel inferior to them at times as they have such in built confidence.

I like what I have achieved but I hate being so mean spirited about it all. However a pretty specific issue so not sure if there will be much advice but how do I get over myself?

This is really interesting.
I 'm almost in the opposite situation. I work in a male dominated environment where the expectation at work is to own a flash car and half a million pound house.
I had initial feelings of insecurity, but became widely respected on a professional level initially and then the cars/houses etc became irrelevant. I realised exactly who I was as a person and I have no desire for flash cars/massive house. When I scratched beneath the surface of my colleagues and their "perfect" lives, I found affairs, unhappy marriages, financial stress, illness etc etc
Never judge others or compare yourself to them. You will nearly always be wrong.
Have a sit down and ask yourself exactly who you want to be. If you decide that you want piano lessons, ready meals and to read the hobbit as well as Mills and Boon - then it's OK!
When you work out who you are its a great feeling.
I speak as someone who recently plucked up the courage to pick up a copy of the Daily Mirror whilst sat in Waitrose cafe the other day....!

I'm from Glasgow and not sure why some if you think ' Glaswegian ' people wouldn't use certain phrases . Not all people from Glasgow talk like Rab c nesbitt.

I think it's normal to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder when you have lived a harder life, but there is nothing wrong enjoying the nice things you have earned , that doesn't make you a snob.

I have a lovely big house and I enjoy nice things but I'd never look down on someone because of how they live . There's nothing wrong in enjoying possessions.

You do sound unhappy to me material stuff do t last I had an argument with a friend the other day who in front of ppl in a posh garden centre cafe called me a chav
Yep I have a tattoo, a staffy and untill recently been unemployed oh bot to mention the fwb situation I seem to be in but to be honest I'd rather that than be in your situation
I've lost a lot on last few years and fighting hard to get it back .
Things come and go but huni think about it there are people yes it does seem snobby but you think those peeps who eat junk might drink to much fresh food is expensive your lucky so instead of being a snob give back to those who don't have an as t you have you were lucky .

Being 'all fancy' does not make anyone superior - you just have a wall of 'fancy stuff' to hide behind. People really need to concentrate on what THEY are all about, not about what possessions they have. A measure of a good friend is someone that does not judge, will happily remove a grizzled old tabby from their friend's couch before they sit down, 'happily' accept supermarket own tea/coffee -or bring a decent packet with you etc etc. Someone who can get on with anyone. I believe I am that sort of person. However, I am superior to no one.

Death Well written post.

I was definitely working class as a child. Lived in a council flat, did not go on family holidays, had minimum clothes, no ballet/drama classes.

This was my norm until I met others who lived far more comfortably I.e. attended private school, had long haul holidays, lived in posh areas.

Although dh and I studied and have well paid jobs according to national average we live a very modest life in comparison to some. Once childcare, mortgage are paid for, there is little disposable income.

Some of my friends see eating out every weekend, going to tea shops as everyday things whereas these are treats to me.

Death since when does eating healthily, playing the piano and enjoying culture that is not necessarily poular culture, being 'all fancy'?

Why do you meet up with them? You don't sound like you have much in common anymore. Is it really just for the boost? It sounds like a waste if time if so. Or do you enjoy their company.

I've mentioned my lentil munching past on here many times. My folks were radical socialist academics, we were vegetarian in the 80s (social death) and were clad entirely in jumble sale clothes that my parents didn't particularly believe in washing.

We looked like tramps.

To this day, it means everything to me to have that blissful adult freedom to consume low culture and crap food whenever I want. I'm totally MC, but I like having fun, which often seemed 'banned' by my parents principles when we were kids.

I spent many years basically laughing at my former schoolmates when adult life finally revealed that I was privileged, not poor, and that the qualities valued at school (the right clothes, branded crisps at lunchtime) count for naff all in the real world.

I guess I had my ugly duckling moment. These days with a more mature perspective I can feel kinship and empathy with the bitches who used to laugh at the hippy kid. They were raised by numpties, and knew no better. I'm sure they'll do better with their own kids, if they believe half the caring, liberal pish they spam Facebook with.

Death since when does eating healthily, playing the piano and enjoying culture that is not necessarily poular culture, being 'all fancy'?

IMO it becomes 'all fancy' when mainstream things are excluded because they are mainstream not taken on merit or taste.

Like a teenager who won't do something because it's not 'cool'. There are plenty of adults who won't do things because they are 'common' - without actually looking at their merits. I spent 4 years living in Guildford and must admit there were several people I worked with who were just like this.

Another example would be good food = excellent all round. No one would argue about that. But many a few years back, before Gastropubs, it had to be French or Italian and English food was a bit looked down on, even if wonderfully cooked with organic ingredients. I remember at uni a friend sneering at my home cooked shepherds pie in favour of jarred tapinade, cheap fake looking 'ciabatta' from a plastic bag... because at the time only common people had English gravy dinners.

She made her selection based on excluding factors to do with clique/image.

Morris my family were mixed culture and used social cues religiously (i.e. to prevent racism or a faux pas, they clad themselves in an armour of keeping up with the Joneses). So I'm the opposite to you... I have become more and more of an insane old hipster rock chick alternative type as I've aged!
Having said that I do love trashy movies, fast food, garish nail art etc' as well as my lentilly, 'you won't have heard of this band', 'oh this, it's vintage/an obscure band/upcycled' stuff.

But I am a pain in the arse with shopping and product choosing, very 'does it work' to the nth degree.

Morriszap,

I recognise that, LOL

I delight in an occasional dose of reality TV, a bit of junk food or reading the Daily Mail every now and then. I get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Still feel naughty when I drink fizzy drinks, aged 43! (all that sugar!!!)

I have also done a few karaoke nights. Though we were more the type of people to go to classical music concerts and opera's (which I love too, but I have belatedly discovered you can do both!)

Morris me too! (Though not quite as extreme as yours I think) It was all brown rice, classical music, home-made flares and cultivated intellectual isolation. It took me years to accept that my love of pop music wasn't just an embarrassing stage that I would have to grow out of. It's only since I've been an adult that boyfriends have persuaded me to go to Macdonalds and it still makes me feel like I'm living on the edge. I also (in my 40s) get so excited about going to the supermarket and knowing I can buy things like coke! and pre-prepared sponge pudding! (Not that I always do, and I still don't get why people have to have the right brands etc.)

Brown rice. Oh hallelujah, I will never in my life need to eat brown rice again.

BROWN FUCKING RICE.

And I am so getting it about McDonalds. I eat there maybe twice a year, and it feels akin to shagging my brother in law or something. Hmm, do any other restaurants serve fried meat items alongside carbohydrates? Indeedy they do. Some of them even get critical acclaim for it. But it is WRONG.

Sometimes I think I know exactly how it would feel to be
a lapsed Catholic :)

it feels akin to shagging my brother in law or something

EXACTLY! :o

The excitement... the guilt... the WRONGNESS

OP I think in a weird way, you are saying to yourself 'yes, I made the right choices.' It might have been more acceptable or easier in your family and school to go with the flow, but you turned and swam the other way and it's nice to know that it was worth it. Plus there's a little luxury in looking at yourself sometimes and thinking 'look at me! I'm watching opera! I allllways wanted to do this and now I am!'

Me and DH are a funny mixture. Both have working class parents who did well at school and got to go to grammar schools (my dad actually got a scholarship to a private school) first in their family to go to Uni etc. but the rest of the family are still working class. I was a bit of a target at school too (went to a bit of a shite state secondary) because I was bookish, 'boring' etc. I always longed to see Shakespeare on stage, or the ballet, or listen to classical music and own all the books I wanted. Now I do do all those things - when I can afford it - but also LOVE Saturday night telly, Take A Break, egg and chips for tea, a good piss up and so on. Do the things you like, don't do the things you don't like, and don't beat yourself up about silently judging because we all bloody do and I don't believe anyone in here who says they don't!

Morris whispers... after a childhood of only potato or pure white basmati (ironically from the supermarket not the cash and carry if my DDad was shopping... don't want the Joneses guessing he was obviously from Asia) I actually really like brown rice.

And I am so getting it about McDonalds. I eat there maybe twice a year, and it feels akin to shagging my brother in law or something. Hmm, do any other restaurants serve fried meat items alongside carbohydrates? Indeedy they do. Some of them even get critical acclaim for it. THIS!! If the product is similar, why look at the packaging so much?

Mind you, I do shop at John Lewis for all my white goods, but this is because of their guarantee (and they do price match) - had a really bad experience with an Asda warranty once. Not to be 'seen' in the shop.

ha ha ha ha ha I am post-lentil-homemade-flares too. I do like brown rice actually. BUT my dd1 is in her first year of school uniform and I took INSANE pleasure in buying her identikit summer dresses this term. Bought, standard, red and white gingham dresses that have NOTHING weird about them. she takes it for granted and has no idea how lucky she is. And I am glad.

there is a lot about my yoghurt-weaving past that has stayed with me, but some of it just never properly rubbed off. for instance: I cannot fucking make vegetables grow. Flowers, yes, sometimes, the easy kind, with a following wind: vegetables? never in a million years.

But the little frisson experienced by the liberal middle class, when they embrace a soupcon of popular culture is frankly patronising.

The OP is talking about feeling out of step with her old freinds whose lifestyle in different on a whole sale level.

But the little frisson experienced by the liberal middle class, when they embrace a soupcon of popular culture is frankly patronising.

It's really not. It's genuine enjoyment that it took me years to realise I actually felt. I enjoy a good read of the Sun when I find it left on the bus. I like ice-cold coke. I really, really like Taylor Swift. These types of things were banned, or not even banned, just so beyond the pale you would never even consider them, when I was growing up. It's an exciting new word that makes being an adult a lot more enjoyable.

I'm not doing it to patronise and I still like a load of highbrow things too.

But that's the point sofishy the OP is getting it in the neck because she prefers middle class culture.

This is seen as dreadfully snobby. Proof that she is morally lacking. Because the liberal middle classes love popular culture. Look at me, enjoying my McDonalds!!!

Yet the reality is they dip in and out. They're steeped in their own culture. Confident in it. Always returning to it. Slumming it occasionally to watch Eastenders...

The OP is talking about people who do not dip in and out. They don't eat the odd KFC, when their organic vegie box has run out. They don't enjoy the odd naughty ciggie when they meet up with their old friends from Bristol Uni.

And when these people are your freinds and extended family it can be confusing.

I think you yourself and others here should give you a break - you seem quite self aware to me, and already think that your attitude to others is not perfect, but surely we can all see where it comes from.

In some ways healthy food is a better choice than any old stodge, reading books is a more interesting choice than watching whatever's on the box - especially the more mainstream stuff, the same for music - I like classical and world music myself as well as the old popular tunes.

So, nothing wrong with having some taste and discernment if it makes you happy!

I'd agree with others some very middle class counselling could help you a lot with sorting out these very understandable feelings and fears I think

You can't help how you feel, only how you act. Don't grasp at the reactions and analyse them and feel they make you into a bad person. You didn't put in an order for them, and in fact they have probably been part of what's allowed you to be a success. Just let them come and go and be the best person you can be.

But the little frisson experienced by the liberal middle class, when they embrace a soupcon of popular culture is frankly patronising.

As I've mentioned, culturally/class wise my family came from slightly 'outside the system' so tried to buy in to average (on to a loser in class led Britain).
I find this idea that certain 'types' of people should only like certain things a bit daft TBH. And that includes assuming someone not so well off liking piano is 'pretentious' and assuming a better off person liking Macdonalds is 'naughty' or 'patronising'.

Having in adult years spent time with proper bone fide posh people, I can confirm that culturally and in terms of food, they can be remarkably like so-called 'chavs' at times... but the difference tends to be unlike hand-wringing middle classes, they have a "f*k you I am who I f*king am' attitude to it: 'yah, I'm eating a pot noodle, used to love them from tuck shop darling' (no worries whatsoever about identity).

Well you have acquired the trappings and looked around and felt the superiority yet you still aren't satisfied there you have it You say you get a frisson of satisfaction out of this but if you did you wouldn't have to keep doing it. I feel for your old friends and wonder if your new friends look at you similarly behind your back? Imagine how that would feel if you knew they were saying you weren't the real deal and enjoying it. Your life seems based on a load of nonsense

Thewordfactory the issue is,

1. She doesn't sound like she enjoys every bit of her lifestyle: some parts sound chosen to be middle class, not for her pleasure if that makes sense. Like she's been forced to play a role. Like she cannot permit herself to like some things because they're working class.
2. This makes her sad.
3. She talks about feeling 'superior' based on seeing some bits in someone's trolley. People joking about a cheeky KFC after years of home-cooked aren't going there to look down on people/up to people. They want dirty chicken. If she buys waitrose organic all the time for her pleasure, brilliant, wonderful, go ahead ... but if she does it because she is judging herself and others, that isn't healthy.

Same behaviour, different motivation.

That is something I've left in my childhood, as a child of someone who wanted to 'fit in' we did a lot of things because they'd heard/read it was 'normal' and they didn't want to be 'weird'. It sucked. Same day out/dinner as the neighbours - different psychology. Not enjoyable. Plus... the judging others always involved/s judging of ourselves.