I am a horrible snob

[Iamameangirl]

I feel so bad about myself, its pathetic really. I grew up on a pretty grim council estate just outside glasgow and we were poor, my father was in and out of work thourgh the 80's and we had bugger all. I hated it, I was a bit of an odd one out at school I was quiet and read a lot but I disliked my scummy surroundings and desperately wanted all the trappings of a middle class life like piano lessons, ballet lessons, pony school, books, nice food and holidays. I didn't really know anyone like that (only in books) but I knew it was out there and I wanted a slice of it.

I worked hard at school and went and got into university, got my degree and my post grad. I was very fussy about who I dated I never wanted the bad boy or the slacker I like the careful, sensible reliable guys the engineers and the math students. I tended to date guys from more middle class backgrounds but when I fell in love it was with a man from a poorer background like myself but he was an engineer and he too wanted a better life than what he grew up with.

We have done well we have a lovely house in a good area, nice cars, I am finally taking piano lessons. But god I am such a snooty, snobby cow! I occasionally meet up with some girls I was at high school with and secretly I get a boost out of comparing my life with theirs. They are all fairly chavvy, multiple kids to different men, tattoos, obese, eating rubbish, working in the supermarket etc They were the cool girls at school, while I was the weirdo.

In other ways too at the supermarket I look at what people are buying and I feel superior when I see the ready meals, bottles of booze and junk food in their trolly. I take pride in all the healthy quality things I buy, ingredients for healthy homecooked meals, of course I also grow my own veg and herbs. I look at what people read and what films and music they listen to and I judge away looking down my nose at them and feel smug about the quality, high brow culture I consume.

I'm kind of horrified at myself, I know I still have hang ups about my background, nearly all my friends were privately educated and I do feel inferior to them at times as they have such in built confidence.

I like what I have achieved but I hate being so mean spirited about it all. However a pretty specific issue so not sure if there will be much advice but how do I get over myself?

[rainbowfeet]

I would say to someone like you... Be very careful how you perceive others because it is very easy to end up on your arse!!..

I can probably be put in the category you put your 'friends' in but I never intended my life to be like this it only takes a broken relationship or 2, redundancy & poor health or other circumstances.

I think your friends sound amazing to still even give you the time of day.. They must feel sorry for you.

[ProfessorDent]

Well, we can all be snobs. Some on this thread are being snobbish about the OP being a snob, as if to say, well, I'd never do that. Class snobbery is just one aspect of it, but of course it is to make you feel superior.

Afraid university can have that effect, it can make you feel you've sold out a bit - see Starter for Ten, about the lad who gets away but struggles to keep tabs on his old friends.

But maybe the OP's old friends are skank, too and have done nothing with their lives. Or maybe the other posters' achievements haven't taken them so far from their origins (if the origins were fairly well to do in the first place) so they are less likely to gloat. You have to figure out what skillset they might have that you don't, there should be something.

[beepingbeep]

This thread is enthralling! There really are so many middle class wannabes. I couldn't care less how rich or cultured people are. If they're kind, honest, respectable people then I consider them to have class.

[TheWordFactory]

squizita the upper classes who you lionise are only dipping in and out of popular culture, the same as certain posters here.

Thast really does not make them fully inclusive.

It just means they dip into another culture. Not that they would think it a jolly good thing to embrace it 24/7. The idea that the Upper Classes are just terribly good sorts without a snobby bone in their Pot Noodle-fed bodies is a popular myth, though a myth none the less.

[MorrisZapp]

I always love your work WordFactory, but no way will I accept the charge of being patronising.

And if I am, I'm in good company with the many people who appear to think that being MC is mainly to do with wearing Boden and living in Guildford.

My mum doesn't know what Boden is.

I often wonder how people manage to spot middle class males, what with Bodens inability to put handy demarcation florals and spots on it's chinos.

[TheWordFactory]

Morris what I think is patronising, is middle class people telling the OP that she should embrace the culture of her friends because they enjoy the odd bottle of WKD.

The reality for those of us brought up in the culture described by the OP, is that we often do feel uncomfortable with old friends and family who don't mix and match their culture. It makes us feel off kilter...

Striving to educate ourselves, learn the piano, grow vegetables or whatever isn't easy. It's easily dismissed by those who grew up in that culture, of course.

There's always a period of readjustment when we ask ourselves what's better.

And yes, though it feels snobby, there are certain aspects of a new culture that may be superior to what we were brought up with. There will also be amny aspects of the new cuklture that we reject.

By like anyone asssimilating to a new way of living, there are interesting and sometimes painful changes along the way.

[Verity87]

Well, at least you have the self awareness to know that some of your attitudes aren't very nice.

We can all be snobby about certain things. But when it's about people you need to do something about that if you don't want people to think you aren't very nice. Especially if these people are supposed to be your friends.

I know people with money and a good career who are not at all ashamed of their background. It certainly does come from your own insecurity IMO. Perhaps some counselling would help you overcome the feelings you had about your life in your childhood?

[Verity87]

And there are plenty of rich people who eat unhealthy diets.

[SuperFlyHigh]

OP - why do you meet up with these women who are chavs? Is it to rub it into them that now you're better than them and just to gloat on your perfect life?

I had a friend a bit like you at school, a snob and v rich with it, had what she wanted and was quite unbearable. anyway she distanced herself from her parents, became an earth mother and supposedly a nicer person.

My aunt is also a bit like this - upwardly mobile and has strived for that. however it comes at a cost, her husband doesn't really fit in with their country set and hates a lot of their ways. and they have friends but I sort of get the feeling she's lonely too, without some of her old, fun friends.

[squizita]

squizita the upper classes who you lionise are only dipping in and out of popular culture, the same as certain posters here.

Not lionising, just observing. I never said they weren't stuck-up in other respects at all. In fact, some of them are freed to do as they please precisely because they have the odd idea that 'they' are measured by some letters before or after parental names for the last 1000 years therefore they can do what they like. It's interesting that you assume because I have met/mixed with them and observed an element which makes them happier than the OP, I must therefore view the 'whole package' as wonderful.

But it's an illustration of how some people are far, far less hung up about judging themsleves.

This "dipping in and out" concept concerns me. It seems to suggest that behaviour (1) comes as a package: the 'right' way is to buy in 100%. All organic piano lessons or all KFC. Otherwise you're a fake, dipping in and out and (2) certain products are signifiers of class and nothing else. So you can't eat/buy them for any other reason (e.g. hunger).

The reason it concerns me is as a person of mixed heritage I was subjected to some well-meaning prejudice as a child along these lines with regards to race/culture. Lentil-weavy types would 'lionise' my Asian heritage when they knew about it and discourage me from exploring (or dipping into) the less lentil weavy Irish side. Or, more worryingly, if they didn't realise I was mixed, give the whole 'dipping in' lecture if I wore or ate something Indian. Thus, part of my identity was always offensive to them: because I wasn't neatly packaged.

To some extent I see the same with class. I honestly don't believe anyone is 100% 'middle class' using all the shallow signals.

[Verity87]

It is horrible to call anyone a 'skank' or a 'chav'

[SuperFlyHigh]

sorry and you ARE a snob and a bit of a bitch too.

I would never dream or have the time of day to dream to inwardly comment on what someone else reads/drinks/eats etc. why do that? how old ARE you?

get on with your own life, playing the piano and growing your herbs and stop judging others!

[squizita]

And yes, though it feels snobby, there are certain aspects of a new culture that may be superior to what we were brought up with. There will also be amny aspects of the new cuklture that we reject.

This is the key thing: SHE DOESN'T. The OP plays 'dress up' with the bits of her new culture that do not bring her pleasure. I keep explaining: my childhood was marred by exactly this - I'm sure my parents knew some f the prejudices/crap bits that came with being 'English', but they did it ANYWAY to fit in. And sneered those less assimilated to the (average, NOT posh) street we lived in.
That is the crux of the issue
...but of course, then at least she's not 'dipping in and out' is she?

[noddyholder]

skank? Fgs listen to yourself.

[TheWordFactory]

squizita which bits of the OP's adopted cuolture don't bring her pleasure?

Has she said they don't, or do posters assume?

From what I can see, the things that don't bring her pleasure are some aspects of her old culture. She should be free to reject those if she chooses IMVHO and not rever them out of some sort of class loyalty.

That said, I am a person who very happily straddles two classes. I very much pick and choose which part sof my old culture to keep and reject, which parts of my new culture to adopt or reject.

But this takes time. You have to try each one on for size. Sometimes the process is painful. Rejecting an aspect of ones old culture, particularly an aspect to which all your old comrades cleve, is doubly painful.

This is where the OP is at IMVHO. And those who are very comfortable in their culture, but occassionally dip into another, are not in a position to crticise IMVHO. Dipping into a culture, is not the same as trying to move from one to another, or attempting to straddle two. The former is easy, the later two are not.

[noddyholder]

If it brought her pleasure she wouldn't feel the need to keep massaging her superiority by insulting others. Tbh I think people probably see right through her though as this sort of thing is usually pretty obvious

[MarshaBrady]

There is no obligation for the op to meet with these people from school, why do it? She doesn't seem to enjoy it in any way.

[Owllady]

I agree with noddy, it's extremely transparent

[Owllady]

Middle class? I beg your pardon

[Verity87]

It doesn't matter how much money you have or what class you are culturally or by birth. If you feel the need to despise other people because of their lifestyles then it says far more about you and is not a decent way to behave.

[ravenmum]

OP said: "secretly I get a boost out of comparing my life with theirs."

Secretly, i.e. in her head, and with instant shame. No insulting going on.

[Verity87]

But I think people can tell when you look down on them even if you don't express it.

[squizita]

But this takes time. You have to try each one on for size. Sometimes the process is painful. Rejecting an aspect of ones old culture, particularly an aspect to which all your old comrades cleve, is doubly painful.

This is where the OP is at IMVHO.

Yes I absolutely agree.

I made the pleasure point based on tone and turns of phrase e.g. "I look at what people read and what films and music they listen to and I judge away looking down my nose at them and feel smug about the quality, high brow culture I consume." - it sounds quite staid and rehearsed e.g. high brow culture is the right one to 'consume'. Now, if I went back to school and wrote an essay i might say 'consume' but it just sounds so formal and learned, it gives me the impression it's formal and learned behaviour. Perhaps I am over reading.

Like, if I say (thinking about the higher brown stuff I like) "Sometimes I really like to go look at photography exhibitions, it's much nicer seeing them framed on the wall than staring at them on a screen - but my mates who google-image everything on their phone think I'm nuts, oh well" it sounds different to "I am a consumer of the photographic arts, as opposed to those who do a quick google search, philistines".
Maybe similar to the tonal difference you point out between "Ooh I eat KFC as well as chicken Wagamama, it's so naughty because I'm a respectable lady normally " and "I love chicken... chicken curry, roast chicken, KFC, chicken salad...mmmm".

[noddyholder]

Eh? I am talking people in general I think all her 'friends' probably see right through her. You don't know me and say I like to keep the working classes in their place? Do you realise how daft that sounds